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honmanm
08-11-2010, 09:36 AM
An AES paper describing a study of amplifier-cable-speaker interactions:

http://www.apiguide.net/04actu/04musik/AES-cableInteractions.pdf

Nelson Pass' study - not as rigorous, but equally illuminating:

http://www.passlabs.com/pdfs/articles/spkrcabl.pdf

STHLS5
08-11-2010, 11:34 AM
Nice technical articles but they are not really helping us. In Fred Davies paper, a slight difference at 10kHz of about 0.2dBV. Can we honestly admit 1dB difference in loudness is discernible? The Passlab papers concluded by saying "A few guidelines have emerged here, but the final judgment belongs to the user". Well, we really don't need a research to know that.

I am unable to tell the difference and I don't think any of my friends could though they say it makes a difference. But somehow this myth continues to live on.

ST

honmanm
08-11-2010, 01:12 PM
The Passlab papers concluded by saying "A few guidelines have emerged here, but the final judgment belongs to the user". Well, we really don't need a research to know that.
I think that's an escape clause, the people who sell his products also make a lot of money from cables & he doesn't want to get in trouble with them.

My personal take on the "cable thing" is that there may be an audible difference with specific combinations of amplifier and speakers, but that doesn't correlate with price and doesn't imply that the same kind of difference will be audible with a different amp/speaker combination. But that's just opinion, which is why I'm interested in actual measurements.

hifi_dave
08-11-2010, 01:27 PM
Unfortunately, no one yet has found ways to measure cables to expose anything less than gross differences. Fortunately, our ears are very effective devices to discern differences small and gross.

Cables do sound different for various reasons and the only effective way to determine the result and the value of these differences is to try the cables in your own system.

singslingr
08-11-2010, 01:47 PM
I think cables and their effectiveness are very system-dependent. But in my view there's a limit to the amount one should spend on cables. I once knew someone who spent around US$15,000 on speaker cables and interconnects, which was only slightly less than the cost of his whole system at around US$25,000.

My advice to him was that he should have spent US$5,000 on cables and US$5,000 on soundproofing his listening room instead, that way he'd have saved US$5,000. He wasn't too pleased.

denjo
08-11-2010, 01:54 PM
There is more to cables than capacitance, inductance and resistance! There is still much that science cannot explain. It is like an amplifier that measures textbook linearity in the lab but does not sound good to one's ears while another amplifier that measures not that well might sound more 'musical.' Yes, there is also this concept called system synergy, system dependance, etc.

KT88
08-11-2010, 02:20 PM
I'm going to weigh in on this subject one more time and be done with it. This probably won't clear the Moderator, but here we go:

I'm a believer in Intelligent Design, that we were created by a higher power-that would be God. That being said, I don't think there is a measuring device on this Earth that could be as discerning as the Human ear, which God made.

I'm also a professional trombonist and can hear differences in pitch as small as 5 Hz. Please don't get me wrong, I'm not being boastful-I have to be able to do this to play in tune with those around me and to stay employed. That being said, why would some of you think that I, or many others who've been blessed with fine ears, couldn't hear the difference between two speaker cables?

We'll agree to disagree, I'm sure. But no two people hear alike, nor do we know exactly what other people are hearing when they listen.

Bob LaBarca
Principal Trombone, Nittany Valley Symphony (www.nvs.org)
State College, PA
USA

STHLS5
08-11-2010, 02:45 PM
When we talk about cable are we talking about plain wire within a reasonable length or some high end cables with their "little network" buried inside them?

ST

honmanm
08-11-2010, 03:16 PM
Before we worry about what science might not be able to explain, I'd be interested to see how far we can get with the properties that can be explained by science, especially the extent to which audible effects correlate to measured parameters. And if we can't establish a correlation, then (barring expectation bias) we need to ask what else should be measured.

In reply to the last post, I think we should be thinking of cables and termination (i.e. impedance-matching rather than plugs!) as closely related ingredients but not lump them together.

So the purpose of the thread is to dig for technical info that equips one to understand what is going on when there is an audible difference. This leaves aside the question of whether or not a measured difference is audible... though as (when listening to music) it is possible to hear the effect of small changes in the position and toe of speakers it seems likely this is also true for other ingredients (guess!).

T.W.
08-11-2010, 05:59 PM
I'm also a professional trombonist and can hear differences in pitch as small as 5 Hz. Please don't get me wrong, I'm not being boastful-I have to be able to do this to play in tune with those around me and to stay employed. That being said, why would some of you think that I, or many others who've been blessed with fine ears, couldn't hear the difference between two speaker cables?

I think everybody is able to hear differences in tone pitches and has at least a "feeling" that there is something wrong when an instrument is untuned (of course not as good a you !!). This is part of our incredible hearing system and brain. You with your almost perfect musician hearing and your long experience are also able to tune it without using any
measurement equipement.

But the example doesn't seem to fit for our speaker cable discussion. A speaker cable never changes the pitch of tones. It may only change the loudness over the frequency in a very very small degree.

So lets guess that a speaker cable is responsible for a small drop of loudness over 10k. Are you able to hear that? Does this change the signature of your instrument? Do you hear a difference if somebody plays a trombone behind a very light curtain? You are able to detect a fault of 5Hz, but are you able to detect a drop in loudness of 0.1db?

Euler
08-11-2010, 06:45 PM
why would some of you think that I, or many others who've been blessed with fine ears, couldn't hear the difference between two speaker cables?

Given the myriad ways in which our senses fool us, why would anyone believe that he CAN hear the differences among cables, without the support of some well designed double blind studies? Has any such study shown that a listener can in fact hear differences among cables? I'd love to know.

Bruce

hifi_dave
08-11-2010, 09:25 PM
Why would anyone believe that they can't hear the difference between cables ?

If you have a pair of Harbeth speakers, they are perfectly capable of revealing any differences. Obviously, some cables sound pretty much the same as others but there are differences and there are good and bad sounding cables. Whether you want to pay for those differences is another matter but good cables needn't be expensive.

STHLS5
09-11-2010, 03:42 AM
Like most audiophiles, I too believed in cables, voltage stabilizers and tweaks. I too heard differences in different cables. However, every thing changed due to two events.

Many years ago, I replaced my ordinary speaker cables to a reasonably expensive one. I was amazed with the difference. I did my own comparison over a period of the time and found out the expensive speaker cables sounded better. At that time, it was without terminations, just bare wires as recommended by my amplifier's manufacturer. Everyday, I would switch cables to be absolutely sure which one was a better sounding cable. I finally settled for the more expensive cable.

After many months of listening with the finest cable that I could afford, one day my left speaker's tweeter wasn't working. Upon checking, I found out that the wire came off. That's when my opinion changed about cables. To my horror, I was listening for many months using the cheap cables. Obviously, during the many cable switches I must have forgotten to change the cable back to the expensive one. For at least six months, I was listening to a cheaper cable without realizing my mistake and yet heard improvement in the sound.

The second event was when I noticed a small filament type bulb (incandescent light bulb) dimming/flickering very very slightly. My TV or other equipments weren't affected. After, being sure it was due to power supply from the utility company, I called the utility company. First they blamed my internal wiring but after checking, they found it was one of the connections on the pole far away from my house was not secure.
Whatever it was. I did not hear any difference in the sound quality. I am talking about voltage dips that affect a bulb yet it did not affect my sound.

I am still using an industrial CVT(Cetronic power) and power stabilizer(Watford control) but that's to stabilize the power supply to 230V for my CD palyer. It doesn't affect the sound.

Nevertheless, at the same time I am also cautious because Bob ( a professional musician) and Dave's (a hifi dealer) observations. They know what's music is and Dave probably had tried various amplifiers and speakers combinations. Could there be something else? Something that I can tell the difference 100% correctly each time I am asked to guess?

And this is just for laughs..

http://imgsrv.gocomics.com/dim/?fh=9afc8a8967d71dba4af1806d632757f0&w=450.0

ST

hifi_dave
09-11-2010, 11:26 AM
You're correct - I have heard, used and sold hundreds of different cables over the years. I never stock anything, whether it's equipment or cables without auditioning it first.

I stock cables from a couple of Pounds/metre to many Pounds/metre and all are chosen because they are good value. I am not a believer in paying Megabucks for cables because I have a good idea of some of the manufacturing costs and can often source cables that are equally as good but at a far lower price.

Even with an average system, the differences between cables is usually perfectly audible but it's the customer's responsibility to choose which to purchase based on sound and price. It's very rare for a customer not to hear a difference given decent demonstration facilities. The choice is whether the differences are improvements and are they worth paying for ?

Euler
09-11-2010, 08:43 PM
Why would anyone believe that they can't hear the difference between cables ? If you have a pair of Harbeth speakers, they are perfectly capable of revealing any differences.

We are all very familiar with how easily our senses -- hearing, sight, taste, etc -- can be fooled. It is so easy to convince ourselves that we can hear a difference, when we are expecting to hear a difference. That being the case, it would seem prudent to be skeptical when it comes to claims about speaker wires. If there really were an audible difference, wouldn't some double blind tests have confirmed this? Wouldn't some high end speaker wire manufacturer have conducted such a double blind test, in order to promote their expensive cable? As far as I know, no one has ever confirmed the existence of audible differences among speaker cables using a rigorous double blind test. As I said earlier, if any one knows of one, I would love to hear about it.

Bruce

hifi_dave
09-11-2010, 09:51 PM
As a sceptic, I've spent over 40 years playing with and comparing cables. I don't convince myself about anything, I listen, observe and form an opinion. I've got nothing to prove to myself and I can easily hear differences between cables. Sometimes these differences are small but sometimes gross differences are apparent and I like nothing better than to find an inexpensive cable that sounds better than an expensive one. I'm not taken in by packaging and price.

Occasionally, customers will want to try cables in their own systems to form an opinion and choose. If there were no differences, they wouldn't be able to decide but they always can. It would have to be a naff system not to show differences unless they are very similar cables.

I liken it to fine wine. You can't measure any differences between fine wines but they all taste different and connoisseurs spend serious money over flavours that elude me. Could it be that the connoisseurs are delusional ?

Cables have often been measured and sometimes the figures of resistance, inductance and capacitance give a clue as to how the cables will sound. Nothing magical there !!!

Euler
09-11-2010, 10:49 PM
What I hear you saying is that you and your customers are sure that you can hear differences among speaker cables. I don't doubt that you and many of your customers are sure. But, again, if there really were an audible difference, wouldn't some rigorous double blind study (ABX or whatever) have confirmed this? Think about those many folks who would love to have convincing evidence that an audible difference exists: makers of high end speaker cable, reviewers of speaker cables, many audiophiles, etc. Makers of high end speaker cables, in particular, would stand to make lots more money if they could brandish such evidence in their ads. Yet no one, that I'm aware of, has ever used a double blind test to confirm this claim.

Bruce

Euler
09-11-2010, 11:03 PM
The debate about whether there are audible differences between speaker cables, reminds me of the debate about "facilitated communication": the claim that children suffering from nonverbal autism could communicate using a keyboard or ouija board together with a facilitator who would guide their hands as they made the keystrokes. The facilitators were often parents, who of course very, very much wanted to believe that their children were in fact communicating in this way. These parents were absolutely convinced that facilitated communication worked. Yet when this was subjected to careful blind testing, no evidence of communication by the children was ever found.

Our sense of hearing is so subjective and so bound up with our brains, it's no surprise that what we think we hear can be influenced by what we want or expect to hear.

Bruce

hifi_dave
09-11-2010, 11:58 PM
Over the years we have carried out countless 'blind' listening of cables and other items in the hi-fi chain and customers can always hear differences. In fact, blind listening is usually the way we conduct all our comparative demonstrations. All that is, apart from speaker comparisons. If the differences are not apparent, the system must be very inferior or the hearing is impaired.

Of course, differences are often very small but audible and it's up to the individual to determine if the differences are improvements and if they are worth paying for.

STHLS5
10-11-2010, 05:32 AM
Cables can sound different if you alter their resistance, capacitance, impedance beyond the normal level or by adding HF network. That's the reason I asked if are we talking about wires or other features to the cables. An equalizer can do the same job. I believe by including a high quality equalizer it can reverse your opinion about expensive cable A and cheap cable B.

ST

Art K
10-11-2010, 07:22 AM
Over the years we have carried out countless 'blind' listening of cables and other items in the hi-fi chain and customers can always hear differences. In fact, blind listening is usually the way we conduct all our comparative demonstrations. All that is, apart from speaker comparisons. If the differences are not apparent, the system must be very inferior or the hearing is impaired.

Of course, differences are often very small but audible and it's up to the individual to determine if the differences are improvements and if they are worth paying for.

Very well said. I have said something very similar many times. There are always differences, sometimes improvements and sometimes not. Sometimes it correlates with expense and sometimes not. It's up to the consumer to determine whether or not the differences are an improvement and whether they are worth paying for. If you don't hear any differences then by all means don't buy them, I do so I will.

singslingr
10-11-2010, 07:29 AM
I agree with Art K and hifi_dave. Exactly the same reasoning applies to power conditioners, isolation feet, cones and other such tweaks which lead to subjective improvements in sound.

Ultimately, we all vote with our wallets.

STHLS5
10-11-2010, 07:37 AM
Fine. Maybe somebody here can list down the names of the cables, price, design, termination and the so called improvement. Anything is fine by me, if it can really improve my system.

ST

STHLS5
10-11-2010, 07:50 AM
Well if you can tell the difference between these two cable then you can always collect the 1 Million dollars from James Randi organization. Something which even the CEO of the cable companies seemed reluctant (http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/jref-news/104-the-latest-on-pear-challenge-refusal.html) to do.

ST

honmanm
10-11-2010, 09:49 AM
Anything is fine by me, if it can really improve my system. ST

The point is, I think, that to a greater or lesser extent the cable interacts with the other components of the system. And that's the conclusion I took away from the two studies linked to in the first post (however that's just two studies, and it's very likely there is other research that can shed light on this topic).

There is no "silver bullet" that will magically improve everyone's system (that's the kind of snake-oil salesmanship that has turned you and others off, and quite rightly so). Thinking that something will "improve" a system is probably the wrong mind-set - the best one can do is eliminate problems that are degrading the sound quality... and those problems will vary a lot from one system to another.

But it seems just as silly to deny that there may be an audible effect when a component has a measurable effect on audio-band frequency response (and other measurable criteria).

Where objective information isn't available, the best one can do is healthy skepticism as advocated by hifi_dave. If you're being asked to pay a hefty premium over the cost of the materials and labour that went into a product, just say "no thanks".

A.S.
10-11-2010, 11:14 AM
Some quarter century ago, as the cable phenomena was gripping audiophilia, I found myself torn between the natural desire to improve the fidelity of my system and incredulity that cables could make the huge claimed differences. As I've mentioned many time here, based solely on observing how I myself react, I believe that if there is more than about one second of silence between comparing A with B the accuracy of reliable, 'scientific' conclusions drawn about A v B is greatly diminished. Maybe even impossible. Sure, there may well be a difference - I'd expect that - but is the difference certainly due to the characteristics of A v B or to the test method itself?

So, I wanted to compare my bog standard QED 79 strand (or similar non-audiophile cable which I still use) against any other cable I could lay my hands on, which to be honest as I wasn't going to buy any, was not a comprehensive market research. The essence of my comparator is that there is a completely silent switchover from A to B. There is no break in the music (ok there is for about a thousandth of a second which is inaudible), and to be absolutely sure that there has been a switchover from A to B, there was an LED which only illuminated after the circuit had indeed changed over. Any 'degradation' of subjective or objective characteristics due to the switching elements (and I don't believe that there was any) would be common to A and B so in my opinion could be utterly ignored.

If you're interested I'll make a sketch and give you a parts lists. The results, which as I've said were not based on a wide ranging selection of cable which may well have given a different outcome, settled my mind on this matter.

honmanm
10-11-2010, 11:31 AM
If you're interested I'll make a sketch and give you a parts lists. The results, which as I've said were not based on a wide ranging selection of cable which may well have given a different outcome, settled my mind on this matter.

Yes please!

hifi_dave
10-11-2010, 12:58 PM
It beats me that cable sceptics will readily accept that components, such as resistors and capacitors from various manufacturers, can sound different when they have similar specs, yet they don't believe that cables with wildly different construction will sound different.

STHLS5
10-11-2010, 01:18 PM
It beats me that cable sceptics will readily accept that components, such as resistors and capacitors from various manufacturers, can sound different when they have similar specs, yet they don't believe that cables with wildly different construction will sound different.


I am not so sure that different capacitors really alters the sound. After spending close to the price of the CD player itself I could hardly tell if the blackgate and Auricaps helped. My preamp designer told me not to waste time changing the stock capacitors. He said the design puts the limit to the parts used.


Anyway, back to cables. This is the picture of the wire used inside an amplifier.

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_Axb3slToF2I/TNqLdV732GI/AAAAAAAAAZA/M3cu6J48MlQ/s640/InsideAmplifier.png

How do you think a 10 feet cable going to improve this? Wouldn't it be the best to connect these wires directly to the speakers' terminals?

ST

A.S.
10-11-2010, 02:25 PM
Thanks for the picture. You've highlighted the standard cable used to connect the circuit board to the amplifier's output terminals. But you can take a number of steps backwards from those cables. Have a look at the copper foil tracks on the amplifier's PCB, barely a mm or two wide and wafer thin. What about them? Shouldn't they be rewired with fancy or at least thick cable? And another step backwards .... to the semiconductor junctions inside the amp's power devices .... you need to see them under the microscope. Shouldn't they be fattened up somehow?

Here is a PDF of an electron microscope photo (http://www.cs.ucr.edu/%7Eehwang/courses/cs120a/transistor.pdf) of a semiconductor device's output wire. The picture is not scaled, but we're looking at a joint that is perhaps a thousandth of a mm across. That joint carries the current from the working part of the transistor - the pn junction - to the metal pins of the transistor that we can see from the outside, so it is by far the weakest link in the current carrying chain to your speakers. Here is an example of the external transistor case (http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=8fuppV9O7xwC&pg=PA353&lpg=PA353&dq=TO3+device&source=bl&ots=HuVCc_w9PH&sig=x8-wqtdZqn1EXNUeadPH09sDIxQ&hl=en&ei=_qLaTOy-N86HhQelgKH_Dw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=9&ved=0CDcQ6AEwCA#v=onepage&q=TO3%20device&f=false) that we see; the working junction and its tiny wires are buried inside the case.

Although those visible external transistor connection pins are fat, the actual working part of the device is only atoms thick .... surely we should bear that in mind when becoming over anxious about cable? Is it not the weakest part of the chain which defines the performance of the entire signal chain?

honmanm
10-11-2010, 03:15 PM
How do you think a 10 feet cable going to improve this? Wouldn't it be the best to connect these wires directly to the speakers' terminals?

If the amplifier has no zobel networks on its outputs (thinking of classic Naim gear here), that would be a bad idea! Most amplifier designs need some inductance on their outputs to damp HF oscillations (Naim specified a minimum length of a particular type of cable).

If you amp does have Zobel networks - which is very probable! - then the less cable the better... and the smaller the effect that the cable will have.

Now looking at the transistor complement of that amp (and those power resistors), it probably has a nice high damping factor. Going back to the first study, the frequency response of their test system when using such an amplifier was not significantly affected by the cable used in the test.

However if you were to use a high-capacitance cable (litz or similar) it might affect the performance of the amplifier as described in Nelson Pass' study.

A.S.
10-11-2010, 03:35 PM
I illustrated the semiconductor junction and its tiny lead-out wires previously. If we now take a razor blade to the PCB track of the crossover (which is much thicker and broader than the PCB track on the amplifier) you can see just how thin it is. Thin, but entirely adequate for the current that it will carry.

So does the speaker cable need to be much thicker i.e. have more copper per metre than this? Well yes, thicker would be good considering the length the current must travel from the amp to speaker (and hence to minimise loss as heat) but as thick as a hose? No.

Note the fat wires from the adjacent coil, itself much thicker than the track foil but flattened out, probably about the same number of copper atoms per unit volume. Do bear in mind that this crossover track is likely to be several times thicker than the track inside the amplifier. Anyone have a close-up of an amplifier PCB tracking adjacent to a ruler for scale?

Euler
10-11-2010, 07:08 PM
Over the years we have carried out countless 'blind' listening of cables and other items in the hi-fi chain and customers can always hear differences.

Simple logic tells us there are two and only two possibilities here: either (a) by "blind listening" you mean what I do, a rigorous and careful AB or ABX comparison, where the volume remains constant and you and the customer do not know which cable is being used at any given time, the kind of test described by Alan in various posts, or (b) you mean something different by "blind listening." In case (a), you and your customers should immediately contact James Randi, who, as ST pointed out, will hand you 1 million dollars. But I suspect that (b) is the case. And that being the case, it would be more accurate for you to say, not "customers can always hear differences," but rather "customers always _believe_ they hear differences."

But "belief" doesn't prove anything; evidence does. To restate a simple point: if "golden ear" folks or just regular folks could indeed reliably detect (in a careful ABX test) sonic differences between pairs of cables, wouldn't some such tests have confirmed this? Again, think about how much money Monster, Pear Anjou, or Opus cable companies would make if they could prove that their cables "sound better" with such rigorous testing. Yet no one has published such test results. That's a proof by contradiction: if folks really could detect sonic differences, then some rigorous tests would have confirmed this. But no such test has been published. Q.E.D.


Why would anyone believe that they can't hear the difference between cables?

Well, for example, an engineer who understands the physics of current, wires, etc, someone like Alan, say, might well have solid, scientific reasons for expecting that any differences would not be detectable by the human ear. In my case, not being an engineer, I have no expectations one way or the other, so I depend on evidence. And in the absence of any convincing evidence that differences can be detected, but in the presence of scads of cases where tests have failed to demonstrate that such differences can be detected, I remain a skeptic.

Bruce

honmanm
10-11-2010, 07:28 PM
Here a photo of both sides of an amplifier board. The board is about 90mm wide, and the output-stage current path is highlighted. When the components are fitted the path length is 35mm from the decoupling capacitor to the output terminal - the current goes through one transistor, one 0.22 ohm resistor, and a 0.5uH inductor.

Other than that there are wires from the +ve power supply to the board, from board to +ve binding post, and from -ve binding post back to the transformer centre tap.

Tracks are 4mm wide, BTW.

STHLS5
10-11-2010, 11:56 PM
If the amplifier has no zobel networks on its outputs (thinking of classic Naim gear here), that would be a bad idea! Most amplifier designs need some inductance on their outputs to damp HF oscillations (Naim specified a minimum length of a particular type of cable).

If you amp does have Zobel networks - which is very probable! - then the less cable the better... and the smaller the effect that the cable will have.

Now looking at the transistor complement of that amp (and those power resistors), it probably has a nice high damping factor. Going back to the first study, the frequency response of their test system when using such an amplifier was not significantly affected by the cable used in the test.

However if you were to use a high-capacitance cable (litz or similar) it might affect the performance of the amplifier as described in Nelson Pass' study.

The picture wasn't mine. I got it off the net. But you have raised an interesting observation regarding high-capacitance cables. I will try similar cables. I am still keeping my mind open, as the debate was going on I was changing my players power cord. Alternating between a reference, solid core Belden and the original cable that came with player. Yes, I detected some difference. I have done this comparison many times before and it is always the same when we first change the cable. We detect some difference.

As days go by, you will be asking again what happened to the highs or deep bass that you first heard with the cable change. And we start all over again with different cables and tweaks.

ST

steveinaz
15-02-2012, 10:44 PM
Cables. Where to begin? You have Science and perceived real world results. I think the truth lies somewhere in between. I think it's most important to first set your ego and bias' aside for a moment, and research both arguments in a honest effort to get at the truth. That is what we are after, right?

Then we must factor in the variables; listener preference, the physical shape of ones ears, the equipment, the setup. Ear shape is interesting topic that often goes without mention. Next time your listening to music, take your index fingers and push the center of your outer ears forward about 1/16"...notice something? Pretty darn significant huh? How might this single variable effect ones choice of speaker? How might it effect the sensitivity to subtle change? Sometimes people phrase arguments in such a way, that it seems they think the human ear is a device, without error and/or variation. I'd submit that people with "wide" ears are especially sensitive to treble energy.

While I think it's silly to be deeply entrenched in either camp (believer/non-believer) I personally exercise some common sense with my choices. I have experienced differences in some cables. I've often found that multi-strand cables tend to sound out of focus/hashy when compared to solid copper conductor type cables. I also on occasion chose the "cheaper" cable over the more expensive one because it simply sounded better. Audioquest Diamondback vs Copperhead is an example. I have always preferred the cheaper Copperhead.

Personally, I'd never spend more than I have already on cables. My speaker cables (Kimber 8TC v.2) were $456 for an 8ft/pr; and the Kimber Hero IC's at about $285 for 1 mtr set. Having said that, the much cheaper Kimber PBJ is excellent as well; and with hindsight I would have kept it. Digital cable is different, in my opinion. I think a digital cables ability to be as close to the 75ohm spec as possible, far out-weighs any material/topology considerations that you have with analog cables. I love the Belden 1694A, and have had digital cables 6x the price that didn't perform as well, and neutral as the Belden.

Audentity
22-02-2012, 10:15 PM
Thanks for the nice, sane post Steve. People get too excited about cables.