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A.S.
07-02-2006, 11:44 AM
This thread specifically relates to the Monitor 30

airdavid
26-03-2006, 05:03 PM
This thread specifically relates to the Monitor 30

Hallo,
I'd like to know Official U.K. price of Harbeth Monitor 30
Thank you,

regards

David

berenello
29-03-2006, 01:27 PM
Hi,
i came across a pair of used monitor 30 that reports a "25th anniversary" on the back.
I'd like to know what are the differences with the common "domestic" version and if the domestic version, in general, is shielded as it is reported about the professional version.
thank you
Paolo

airdavid
29-03-2006, 01:46 PM
Hi,
i came across a pair of used monitor 30 that reports a "25th anniversary" on the back.
I'd like to know what are the differences with the common "domestic" version and if the domestic version, in general, is shielded as it is reported about the professional version.
thank you
Paolo

Ciao Paolo,
what are your system?
you can write to me via pm.
Thank you!
Ciao,

David

airdavid
09-05-2006, 04:42 PM
Hallo,
does anyone listen to Monitor 30 with 2 mono amps Quad II-Forty (40 watts each) ?


Bye

David

airdavid
09-05-2006, 11:13 PM
Hallo,
does anyone listen to Monitor 30 with 2 mono amps Quad II-Forty (40 watts each) ?


Bye

David

Halrich
25-05-2006, 05:56 AM
Just sold my HL-P3es-2's. They were about as good as you can get for
a small monitor speaker. Being a huge Bill Evans fan - outstanding!
However - I now am replacing them with Monitor 30's. Do they sound better
with grills on? Also, what is the height of your stands?
I will probably buy Sound Anchor - I had great results on
the P3's.

I really like these speakers!
Best Regards All,
Hal

airdavid
25-05-2006, 10:41 AM
Just sold my HL-P3es-2's. They were about as good as you can get for
a small monitor speaker. Being a huge Bill Evans fan - outstanding!
However - I now am replacing them with Monitor 30's. Do they sound better
with grills on? Also, what is the height of your stands?
I will probably buy Sound Anchor - I had great results on
the P3's.

I really like these speakers!
Best Regards All,
Hal


Yes, they sound good with grills on.
I use mid-weight Skylan stands with 2 columns ( www.skylanstands.com ), 60cm (= 24") high

bye

David

Bruce
25-05-2006, 07:12 PM
Do they sound better
with grills on? Also, what is the height of your stands?
I will probably buy Sound Anchor - I had great results on
the P3's

My sound anchor stands are 24" tall. This puts the tweeter at about 36 -3/4" from the floor. I think they sound better with the grilles off. But there's not much difference.

airdavid
02-06-2006, 10:41 AM
How about Monitor 30 with cheap Naim Nait 5i amp?
Have you ever tried or listened to them?

Alan,
thank you for your reply about M30 birth ( 1999 for BBC PRO version): but what's year production of DOMESTIC model of M30?

Thank you

David

jaybar
22-06-2006, 03:06 AM
To A.S and Harbeth Model 30 users:

I am using the speakers in a very neirfield position, where I sit about 64" from the speakers and they are the same distance apart. They are well away from boiundaries.

Should I be listening on axis or slightly off axis.

Currently I can see a bit on the inside of each cabinet when they are toed in.

What do you recommend, or what have you found?

Thanks in Advance,

Jay

Don Leman
22-06-2006, 04:04 PM
Hi Jay,

Our setups sound very similar. I use a little less toe in.

What is it about your current setup which disturbs you?

One other hint which may help is to check to ensure the speakers are the correct height for your listening position. Try to have your ears at or slightly below the tweeter. Also check to see if the speakers are level from front to back. Another important area to look at is damping the 1st reflection points on the floor, side walls and ceiling.

Don Leman
22-06-2006, 04:29 PM
One other thought Jay, if you would like to contact me off list I can send you a photo of my setup so you can compare toe in with your own.

Don
westcoastaudio@shaw.ca

David Schalkwyk
23-06-2006, 11:03 PM
Just sold my HL-P3es-2's. They were about as good as you can get for
a small monitor speaker. Being a huge Bill Evans fan - outstanding!
However - I now am replacing them with Monitor 30's. Do they sound better
with grills on? Also, what is the height of your stands?
I will probably buy Sound Anchor - I had great results on
the P3's.

Hal, being the owner of a pair pf P3s and also a Bill Evans fan, I'm intrigued to know whether the M30s offer a significant improvement.

Thanks

David

Halrich
28-06-2006, 05:15 AM
David-
I will give you a personal opinion as soon as my 30's arrive.
Because of factory delivery, i'm told it may be 45-60 days.
Does anyone else hear of 2 month (aprox) delivery times for
M 30?
I am so looking forward to these!!
Regards,
Hal

gregoryt
18-08-2006, 11:16 PM
I would like to integrate my new M30s with a subwoofer pair I'm constructing. I plan to use the TacT2.2X to implement a digital xover as well as room correction for the system. Would you please offer advice on what xover frequency and slope(s) you would recommend? I would also be grateful for any other advice you could offer about setup.

The subwoofers are each comprised of two TCsounds TC9 powered 15" drivers in a 6 cu. ft. sealed box and powered by (up to) 2400 watt amplifiers. Thanks,

Gregory

amadeuswus
29-08-2006, 07:31 PM
I would like to integrate my new M30s with a subwoofer pair I'm constructing. I plan to use the TacT2.2X to implement a digital xover as well as room correction for the system. Would you please offer advice on what xover frequency and slope(s) you would recommend? I would also be grateful for any other advice you could offer about setup.

Gregory

Hi Gregory,

I hope the designer doesn't mind a stray comment from another user. I use a TacT 2.2x with M30s and a pair of dipole Gradient sw-63 woofers (designed for Quads). The crossover setting is 200hz, 4th order (the actual -6db point will be lower than 200hz; you can see this on the TacT screen). One review of the 2.2x says not to go higher than 4th order so as to avoid ringing, particularly if you don't always center yourself between the speakers. (You can find the Hi-fi News review on the TacT website, I think.) But not everyone agrees, and your situation may well be different.

Edward

gregoryt
31-08-2006, 02:25 AM
Edward,

Thanks for your reply. I had supposed that 200HZ might be a suitable xover point since I'm told that the M40's cross over from the bass to midrange is at 200HZ. I did expect to have to experiment.

Did you try higher order xovers? I have used higher order xovers with other speakers with the TacT but I used Uli Brueggeman's SW to generate xovers and corrections. I didn't hear any ringing and I think that theoretically, at least, the ringing that occurs is many DB lower than the music level. I saw the HiFi News review and I was surprised that the reviewer could hear so much ringing.

Gregory

amadeuswus
31-08-2006, 03:33 PM
Did you try higher order xovers? I have used higher order xovers with other speakers with the TacT but I used Uli Brueggeman's SW to generate xovers and corrections. I didn't hear any ringing and I think that theoretically, at least, the ringing that occurs is many DB lower than the music level. I saw the HiFi News review and I was surprised that the reviewer could hear so much ringing.

Gregory

Hi Gregory,

I've tried 6th and 8th order too. I can't say that I am aware of any ringing, but I did prefer 4th. It sounded fuller and more relaxed to me. A friend thought the higher order crossovers sounded more "resolved" and transparent.

Robert Greene of the Absolute Sound reviewed the TacT using the 10th order crossover to corner woofers at 250hz, and he thought the sound (with M40 main speakers) was a revelation.

Edward

A.S.
01-09-2006, 12:10 AM
... I've tried 6th and 8th order too. I can't say that I am aware of any ringing, but I did prefer 4th. It sounded fuller and more relaxed to me....The key point to bear in mind when grafting the output of a subwoofer onto the sonic output from a main (satellite) speaker is to mirror the roll-off of the main speaker in-room to the roll-up of the subwoofer.

Probably (I'm estimating here) a typical Harbeth speaker has an in-room (i.e. the natural roll-off of the speaker somewhat arrested by the low frequency boost that all domestic rooms seem to have) roll-off of somewhere about 3-10dB per octave right at the bottom end of the audio range - say below 80Hz. Now that implies that to get a flat overall in room response (if that is your objective) you should fade-in the sub's contribution at a corresponding shallow 3-10dB whilst leaving the speaker to contribute its full capabilities right down to the very lowest frequencies.

Now, a gentle slope like 3-10dB implies a low order filter - say, 1st or second order. So, what happens if we use a subwoofer with a contribution that has a sharper (higher order) filter? In theory there would be a mismatch which would cause a hole in the combined response but alternatively it could result in a bump where the sub and main speaker outputs sum over a certain bandwidth. It would critically depend upon finding a suitable "transition frequency" being the highest frequency that the sub could be unobtrusively blended.

An alternative strategy is to deliberately cut-off the low frequency signals that would normally reach the main speakers and send all of them to the sub or subs in the frequency splitting circuitry inside the better subs. Then you could indeed abruptly truncate the LF end of the main speakers at say, 100Hz (where the main speakers have a flat output) with a 4th order filter and blend that with a sub with a similar 4th order filter but probably not also at 100Hz - a lower corner frequency of perhaps 90Hz or so for the sub may sum the sub and main speakers to flat considering all the time delays between sound from the sub and main speakers.

In my experience, a sub filter of about 12-18dB (2nd or 3rd order) with a crossover at an absolute maximum of 60Hz seems to work universally well. Possibly as or more important than the filter slope is that the sub has a variable phase control.

airdavid
06-09-2006, 01:43 AM
nobody......and with Naim nait 5i ?

airdavid
06-09-2006, 01:46 AM
Are they arrived?
So, what's your opinion?
regards,

David



David-
I will give you a personal opinion as soon as my 30's arrive.
Because of factory delivery, i'm told it may be 45-60 days.
Does anyone else hear of 2 month (aprox) delivery times for
M 30?
I am so looking forward to these!!
Regards,
Hal

Paris Kotsis
08-09-2006, 11:55 AM
Hallo to everyone. Just got my Monitor 30's yestereday and, yes, it took over two months of delivery time-I almost had forgotten them. I previously owned M40 but they prooved too big for my amps (I use low power tubes and Crimson 620E) and my room so I had to scale down the speaker. M30 is very similar sounding, also very natural, but much more easy to drive and place, you just let go the 20-40 Hz first otave. I always prefer Harbeths with grills on as I feel I hear less of the "baffle" reaction in the mid-treble region. Now I have a small question for Mr. Shaw. My pair is No 2285 with wood veneered back panel. I noticed an earlier pair (No 2018 I think) photo on the official site that has the flat back panel for binding posts, not the older recessed one (with black paint). Still, in my own, new pair, it is recessed. I know this is not important, and you can feel that this is a question just for fun...but is there some hidden uncertainty for the binding posts to be recessed or not and you keep changing it;

airdavid
10-09-2006, 11:36 AM
Hallo to everyone. Just got my Monitor 30's yestereday and, yes, it took over two months of delivery time-I almost had forgotten them. I previously owned M40 but they prooved too big for my amps (I use low power tubes and Crimson 620E) and my room so I had to scale down the speaker. M30 is very similar sounding, also very natural, but much more easy to drive and place, you just let go the 20-40 Hz first otave. I always prefer Harbeths with grills on as I feel I hear less of the "baffle" reaction in the mid-treble region. Now I have a small question for Mr. Shaw. My pair is No 2285 with wood veneered back panel. I noticed an earlier pair (No 2018 I think) photo on the official site that has the flat back panel for binding posts, not the older recessed one (with black paint). Still, in my own, new pair, it is recessed. I know this is not important, and you can feel that this is a question just for fun...but is there some hidden uncertainty for the binding posts to be recessed or not and you keep changing it;

Paris,
how big is your room?
regards,

David

A.S.
10-09-2006, 01:04 PM
You don't say but I assume that your back panel must be black? In which case, you would expect to have the (expensively) recessed terminal panel.

Paris Kotsis
11-09-2006, 10:44 AM
David,
my room is basically 20 sq.meters but has a large opening to the kitchen, which should make around 30 sq.meters. Main problem with M40 was not the volume of the room, i guess, but its construction and, of course, the need for plenty of power. I don't like big amps and I always keep a system with high sensitivity/low power tube. Having heard the amazing bass of M30 with just 40 watts, I now realize how difficult it would be for a room/amp combo to make justice to M40's extended response
Paris

Paris Kotsis
11-09-2006, 10:54 AM
Alan,
Thank you for your interest. Back panel of my M30's is not black, but "woody", which I mentioned as "wood veneered". That is why I didn't expect recessed binding posts.
Paris

JoeH
11-09-2006, 09:58 PM
I purchased the Model 30 to replace 15 ohm LS3/5A's for use with my NYAL Futterman OTL 4. I love the top and mid range of the Futterman but it is a very speaker sensitive amp. The model 30 was the best match of the speakers I heard. More time will refine my opinion. The speakers are being used in a small room 13x11 and will be about 7' from my chair.

airdavid
12-09-2006, 10:26 PM
does anybody listen to Monitor 30 with Exposure XXXV ?
In Italy it's said it's a wonderful match...

David

JoeH
17-09-2006, 10:00 PM
Yes, they sound good with grills on.
I use mid-weight Skylan stands with 2 columns ( www.skylanstands.com ), 60cm (= 24") high

bye

David
I have owned my Model 30 about 6 months. Orginally heard with a Viva intergrated tube amp I purchased them to replace a 25 years old LS3/5a's. I will be using them with a Futterman OTL 4 in a small room 11'x13'. The Futterman has been in for repair for about 3 months so I have been using a Halfer DH200. The diference without the grills on the high end is dramatic but even more inpressive has been biwiring. I am currently using audioquest midnight and it is WORK to connect the wire. Any comments on the biwiring or on wire in general
Joe

jaybar
27-09-2006, 11:33 AM
Hi

I have a Monitor 30 question.

Assuming good setup relative to the room, what is the soundstage presentation of these speakers, when listening nearfield?

Does the front of the soundstage start:

1) well in front of the speakers?

or

2) At the splane of the speakers?

I am asking because I have been doing a lot of system tweaking (new racks, power conditioning, equipment footers etc) and the soundstage presentation has changed markedly.

I realize that I have lost sight regarding what the baseline shoould be for these speakers.

Thanks so much,

Jay

A.S.
27-09-2006, 11:48 AM
Quick answer: I personally detest a sound stage that bows out towards the listener; it is so unnatural. So, the M30 is as your No.2) in the plane of the speakers.

More here: http://www.harbeth.co.uk/designersnotebook/chapter7/chapter7-1/index.php

LS5/9
10-10-2006, 01:20 PM
I used to use Old Quad II's set to 8 ohm with a Croft pre to drive my Rogers LS5/9 (very near to the 30 Harbeth)
The sound was wonderful , lacked nothing except for deep bass which I don't need/like.
tim

berenello
10-10-2006, 03:25 PM
Hi,
which center channel do yo suggest for Monitor 30?
have someone experienced something about it?

JoeH
16-10-2006, 02:39 PM
Is anyone using time alighted speaker stands. I listen in the nearfield and I was wondering if anyone found the leaninfg the speaker back to time aline the vice coils had a positive effect

A.S.
16-10-2006, 02:43 PM
I regret that you have made a fatal assumption. I have already time aligned the woofer and tweeter in the crososver on the listening axis. If you tip the speakers backwards you will in fact un-align them.

The not-so humble "crossover" has several functions in a quality speaker:

1. Adjust the relative levels of the woofer and tweeter (tweeters are usually more sensitive and need to be turned down to match the woofer).

2. Adjust for the 'baffle step'.

3. Filter action at the top end of the woofer/mid and bottom end of the tweeter.

4. Shelving, or other frequency selective control or compensation.

5. Control of dispersion of sound on and off axis.

6. Time alignment. Note: With conventional woofers and tweeters that are spaced apart on the baffle (in contract to coaxial type drivers) it is only possible to optimise the time alignment at one point in space - logically on the listening axis (or indeed anywhere else you want, but only at one point in space).

and it has to perform all of these tasks simultaneously, without degrading the sound quality and most especially, without making the speaker difficult to drive. It is a complex multi-dimensional problem which appeals to me intellectually and I take considerable personal pride in doing the job properly.

JoeH
18-10-2006, 01:13 PM
Thank you for that information, if it is in the literature I missed it. I am using old target stands that were for the Proac tablettes. I used my LS3/5a stand orginally but the spiked tablette stands increased the focus. These stands are much heavier than the Rogers stands. JoeH

JLL
27-10-2006, 10:43 AM
I have already posted a message with the same question but in he wrong topic.
I have for the moment a cambridge audio (A75-C75) old brand.
I love the sound but I have got a problem with bass. I think the bass is not well drived.
I would like to know what kind of amplifier could sound like my old A75-C75 but with bass mor drived (not necessary with mor bass).
In france, my amplifier is not known.
I know that naim and sugden are named to drive Harbteth, but what kind of models are suitable for the monitor 30.

Thank for your help.

Jeff Stake
02-11-2006, 08:46 PM
I regret that you have made a fatal assumption. I have already time aligned the woofer and tweeter in the crososver on the listening axis. If you tip the speakers backwards you will in fact un-align them.

What is the listening axis for the M30?

A.S.
02-11-2006, 09:09 PM
It's on or close to the tweeter axis.

Jeff Stake
03-11-2006, 04:45 AM
Thanks Alan.
Would measurements done for time alignment have been taken with the microphone on axis and about one meter from the tweeter then?

airdavid
06-11-2006, 01:57 PM
I'm interested too...
anyway, in Italy Monitor 30 + Exposure Classic XXXV is a good match .....but same distributor !!!!

regards,
David

airdavid
16-11-2006, 11:19 AM
what about McIntosh 6300 int. for M30?

Jeff Stake
20-11-2006, 01:45 AM
It seems possible to me that time alignment is a bit overrated. The effect of moving one's head up and down on the frequency response of the speaker in the room may be greater than the effect of the time relationship of the drivers. If time alignment does matter, then one needs to know not only the axis of alignment, but also the distance at which the drivers are aligned. Take the M30 as an example. Let's assume the two drivers are about .18 meters apart, and that they are aligned when the ear or microphone is one meter away from the tweeter, directly on axis. By my rough calculations, if one moves from one to two meters from the speaker, then the drivers will have the same time alignment if the mic is moved .09 meter ABOVE the axis of the tweeter. As we move another meter, we again need to add another .09 meter to the height of the listener or mic to maintain the same time alignment. So, I would suggest listening and measuring at different heights to get the optimum for your listening position. Do not rely entirely on any simple rule.

jaybar
26-11-2006, 05:09 AM
Monitor 30 question for A.S or others:

1) Are M30 speakers good candidates for low-level listening or are there better Harbetrhs for that?

Some speakers need to be cranked-up to preserve involvement and detail--so I am just wondering. I want to try and listen at lower levels (70db) with a sound meeter at my listening position 6 feet away and I am wondering if my M30's are suited for this.

2) When people say listening On-Axis, does that mean the speakers are toed-in so that you don't see the inner side panel?

Thanks in advance.

Jay

Shutterbox
26-11-2006, 05:18 AM
Hello guys,

I would like to know the dimensions of M30's carton's dimensions and weight.

I need these info so as to get an estimate freight cost from the courier company.

airdavid
29-11-2006, 11:13 AM
what's the production year of M 30?

David

JoeH
29-11-2006, 05:06 PM
I have owned my Model 30's for about eight months. They were orginally purchased to be driven by a Futterman OTL 4 as a replacement for a 25 year old Rogers LS3/5a's. Before the speakers were broken in the Futterman developed a problem and the amp has been in and out of the shop until yeaterday. I have been using a Hafler D 200 to drive them while I waited. I was satisfied with that arrangement every once and awhile I concected the 30's to my main amp a Audio Research VT 100 MK2 so I knew there was alot more to expect from these speakers. The Futterman with its sweet top end and 3 D presentation revealed what these speakers can do. I spent the afternoon listening to AnneSophie Mutter's Mozart sonata's. I hear her performance of some of this music at Carnegie hall a week ago. Yesterday was not real but REAL close(maybe my seats at home are better. I can not recommend tube amp more with these speakers. Today its Idemineo with a Met performance tonight . Thank you for these little wonders.
Joe Hartmann

airdavid
07-12-2006, 05:08 PM
Two questions about M30:
1) what the minimum space do M30 need from rear wall ?
2) what's the production year of M 30?

Thank you

Regards,
David

amadeuswus
12-12-2006, 12:56 AM
Hi Alan,

If small things matter (and we had world enough and time), should the listener's ears be level with the tweeter of the M30s? Or should one aim for somewhere between the tweeter and the Radial driver, as members of Robert Greene's forum have suggested for M40s?

Thanks for your thoughts.
Edward

JoeH
04-01-2007, 04:51 PM
I have two questions concerning the Model 30. In the detail of the upgrade for the Compact 7 a new Radial speaker is explained. Might this be an upgrade to for the model 30 as well? Other than the cabinet size what are the difference between the Compact 7 and the Model 30 that cause the price difference?
Joe Hartmann

airdavid
12-01-2007, 04:33 PM
Other than the cabinet size what are the difference between the Compact 7 and the Model 30 that cause the price difference?
Joe Hartmann

It's different tweeter: more expensive the M30's than C7's

David

airdavid
12-01-2007, 04:34 PM
what's internal cabinet volume of M30 in litres?

A.S.
13-01-2007, 10:34 PM
Yes, it's true that the Excel tweeter in the M30/M40 is extremely expensive, much more than that used in the C7. But both are very good units and we have a lot of experience working with SEAS for twenty years now.

Also, although the M30 cabinet is smaller, internally it is much more complicated than the C7 with special damping and cross-struts all of which have to be fitted and adjusted by hand. Hence, the M30 cabinet is more expensive.

Another thing that you may not have even thought of is this .... the M30 system takes longer to assemble than the C7 (or SHL5). The M30s bass unit is mounted from behind the baffle but the cabinets arrive with the baffle fixed into the cabinet to be sure of veneer match. Before we can start assembly of your M30 we have to remove the baffle and place it on the bench next to the M30 cabinet, turn it over, fit the woofer, tighten the bolts, turn it back over and fit the tweeter. In comparison, the C7/SHL5 have all the drivers fitted from the front face - much faster and more cabinets can be lined-up on the assembly bench; the batch size is therefore bigger.

The greater production efficiency of the C7 (we can make a couple of extra pairs a day simply due to this assembly issue) allows us to minimise the ex-works price. It's surprising how a few minutes here and there adds up to so many 'lost' pairs a week.

Ned Mast
17-01-2007, 10:51 PM
Jay,

Even though I don't own the M30s (I own the M40s and have owned the SHL5s), let me chip in with my opinion. I think low level listening will be satisfying with the M30s, since I don't think they will be very different in that regard from the M40s and SHL5s; I listen - or have listened - to both at fairly low levels with no sense of loss of involvement. And at six feet, you are sitting closer to the speakers than I do (about 8 1/2 feet).

To me - and I could be wrong here - on axis listening means sitting equi-distant from each speaker; ie., in a middle positon between them. In that position, whether the speakers are toed in or not, I believe you are on axis.

Ned

A.S.
18-01-2007, 09:43 AM
To me - and I could be wrong here - on axis listening means sitting equi-distant from each speaker; ie., in a middle positon between them. In that position, whether the speakers are toed in or not, I believe you are on axis.
Ned This is almost correct.

In our opinion here, 'on-axis' means listening with your ears at a particular height relative to the front of the speaker. But it can, and does imply having the front of the speaker approximately firing at each ear (perhaps with a small toe-in). When both of these conditions are met, than I'd agree that you are listening approximately 'on-axis'.

Incidentally, as you will see from the User Guide, my preferred listening arrangement is not equi-distant but something like this suggestion ....

"If the speakers are two units of measurement apart from each other (in feet, or cms) then place your chair three units away from the middle point". That works well for me in my room .... but you should experiment in your room.

Rasmus
05-02-2007, 06:38 AM
Hi.
Being the happy owner os a pair of monitor 30 i decided to order a pair of something solid stands. When they arrived and i placed the speakers on the stands, i discovered something was wrong. The stands are manufactered according to the measures on the Harbeth site and are to large. The speakers measueres 277 * 275mm. - the site states 277*285 mm.
So the stands are a bit to large for the speakers. Is this a difference in models or a mistyping?
Regards Rasmus.

A.S.
05-02-2007, 11:22 AM
Regarding external dimensions of our speakers:

I think, from memory, that we include the dimensions of the binding posts as they protrude from the back and I think this was stated on the old web site. So, we will double check and clarify the measurements for all our models as we produce them over the next week or two.

Aside from that there is a normal tolerance on all external dimensions and this is especially so for thin-wall baxes of the type we use. Whilst you as the consumer may be curious about the external dimensions we, as the manufacturer are actually much more concerned with the internal dimensions since the baffle (front panel), back and grille must all fit in every cabinet.

The MDF from which the main case is made does have a tolerance, as does the veneer (we veneer on the inside and outside). Add to that the glues used on the veeners and joints and you'll appreciate that batch to batch there will be perfectly normal but barely detectable variations. They have no effect on sound quality at all.

Hu
20-03-2007, 09:04 AM
I wonder too how Quad II-Forty would work with Monitor 30!

LD31
23-03-2007, 10:51 PM
Hi Alan,

Another question about "coloration"! My wife does not like the clear veneer of my maple M30's (n? 1832). I plan to dye them to get a darker color (like cherry or teak): what would you recommend?

I suppose the M30's wood is "bare", so I can apply the dye or varnish directly?

Kind regards,
Laurent.

A.S.
23-03-2007, 11:46 PM
The veneer is most certainly not 'bare' as you suggest. If it were, it would degrade in days, then split. It is sealed. Dye would not penetrate the sealer: you could apply a varnish as a top coat but I'd experiment on the bottom panel first. I guess that an aerosol would be the best choice.

LD31
24-03-2007, 10:06 PM
Thanks, Alan. I will try a varnish.

LD31
02-04-2007, 10:50 AM
Hi,

I am home listening to my M30's and to a pair of Spendor S8e's : the S8e's are very good, but the M30's are better in any aspect!

How can a speaker be so good? After just a few seconds it has become evident that the M30's bass, medium and treble are better.

More definition, more slam in the bass, while easy to listen, not agressive.

And both speakers cost approximately the same price (around 3000 Euros / pair).

Congratulations for building such a good speaker!

Laurent.

A.S.
03-04-2007, 11:10 AM
How can a speaker be so good? After just a few seconds it has become evident that the M30's bass, medium and treble are better... Congratulations for building such a good speaker! Laurent.Thank you for your kind comments.

I'm going to reply as a new thread here: http://www.harbeth.co.uk/usergroup/showthread.php?p=1758#post1758

.

jaybar
20-05-2007, 02:32 PM
When setting up the Monitor 30's, should they be pointed straight at you or should you be seeing the inner side panels?

Thanks,

Jay

jaybar
23-05-2007, 04:19 PM
Alan, perhapos you can comment? I sit fairly nearfield and my room is narrow (12 feet wide and highly reflective,, so I wondered about the viability of toe-in to minimize the interaction wide side walls. My Monitor 30's are about 62" apart and I sit about the same distance from them.

Thanks,

Jay

A.S.
23-05-2007, 06:02 PM
... so I wondered about the viability of toe-in to minimize the interaction wide side walls.The wavelength of sound is so long at low frequencies that the concept of toe-in will really only have an effect in the middle and especially upper frequencies.

Before you waste a lot of energy shuffling things around in your room, do bear in mind that the ear is extremely adept at hearing through room problems, even though the test microphone would see every reflection. I would suggest that you may sharpen your central image if you toe-in your M30s by a few degrees. The ultimate solution would be to absorb the reflections off the side walls.

jaybar
24-05-2007, 03:33 PM
Thanks Alan for your reply.

jaybar
07-06-2007, 07:03 AM
I am having trouble understanding the effects of toe-inin my narrow and reflective room..

When I toe-in my Monitor 30's, so that I can't see any of the inner side panels (speakers pointed at the listener), the sound becomes thicker and the bass much more prominent and the highs lose any sense of air (perhaps being rolled-off or "dark"and also have a hard edge). They are 64" apart, prior to to-in and I listen 64" from them. They are 64" out into the room, measured from the woofer.

Additionally, the soundstage markedly shrinks with increased toe-in and images fold over each other-like through a "fish-eye" lens. Depth increases and the presentation moves markedly forward. Using a toe-in of only a few degrees widens the soundstage, moves the presentation back a bit, separates the instruments, lightens up the tonal balance and tightens the bass. I thought lots of toe-in is supposed to eliminate speaker room interaction, yet the sound is very strange when the speakers fire at me.

What might explain what I am hearing?

Thanks,

Jay

jaybar
18-07-2007, 05:20 AM
Anyone know what the off-axis response of the Monitor 30's might be, when they are pointed straight ahead? Do the speakers have a smooth off-axis response?

Jay

tobes
20-07-2007, 04:44 PM
I've been casting around for a suitable centre speaker to mate with my C7es2's - for AV purposes. Maintaining a consistent quality and character in the L/R/C speakers is obviously critical for the front soundfield.
Since the M30 shares the same bass/mid driver as the C7, while having a more practical size for a centre, I've been musing about the possibilities. Anyone have any thoughts?
Not sure it's even possible to obtain a single M30? Alan - you don't happen to have an M30 orphan you want to get rid of?

JoeH
06-08-2007, 09:44 PM
I have just come accross an internet site for Mapleshade Recordings and audio equipment. The have a speaker stand called the Bedroot which is the right height for my Model 30's. Does any one have experience with this speaker stand?
JoeH

Bill C
12-08-2007, 02:38 AM
Well I finally picked up a new pair of Monitor 30's! I was also wondering what size stand would be best for them? Is there a specific height recommended? My ears are about 34" above the floor, if that makes a difference. I'm listening in the near field as well, about 6' from each speaker. Thank you,
Bill

jaybar
12-08-2007, 07:32 PM
Hi

Last night, I attended the Mostly Mozart Festival and was pleasantly surprised to learn that my Harbeth M30's equitted themselves quite well:

1) Live orchestral music does not have the pin-point detailed imaging that we crave at least sitting mid-way back in the orchestra. The same can be said for my Harbeth Monitor 30's-even when they are toes in toward me. I used to crave more resolution, now I am beginning to question how realistic that is? Imaging precision on the Harbeths was about the same as last night's concert.

2) Bass. Bass was warmer, fuller and slower that we as audiophiles seem to crave- at least from a mid-hall orchestra perspective. How realistic are we in always want tight tight bass? The bass on the Harbeth Monitor 30's with Cardas cables is still a little "chesty" by comparison, but not by that much. I always thought it was rather full, when listening to the HiFi, but now I am questioning what true bass si about. Even though it was warmer, fuller and slower, last night, the bass still had lots of information.

3) Lots of mid-range presence. The music lived in the midrange with LOTS of midrange detail and presence. Similar to what I hear at home. I sometimes think my system of Cardas, Are and Harbeth has too much midrange presence, but based on the concert, I am beginning to question.

4) Music Way more dynamic live. No way around this one. This is where hoem reproduction does not hold a candle to live un-amplified music.

In short, my Harbeth's did surprisingly well.

BTW, I hear similar things when I attend Chamber music concerts at Alice Tully Hall.

This coming season, we will be subscribing to the Philharmonic for the first time (rear orchestra), so it should be a very interesting comparison.

Ned Mast
13-08-2007, 03:22 PM
Hi Jaybar,
Thanks for your comparison of live & repoduced music through the M30s; sounds reasonable and spot on to me. It's good to see that you're attending live concerts and thus keeping the true reference for judging reproduced sound fresh in your ears. During the season I attend as many concerts as I can, and while live music is unique in it's qualities, I have found the Harbeths to be consistently satisfying in comparison. Though I currently have the M40s, the natural sound of the Harbeths is NOT model dependent; I've heard them all and they all satisfy in this regard.

Ned

Bill C
20-08-2007, 02:14 AM
Hi,
I've been trying to position my new M30's and find that I cannot get much height to the soundstage. It seems I'm looking down from my chair at the soundstage. Have not had this problem with other speakers in this room. My ears are about 34" off the floor when seated. This puts the tweeter about 2" to 3" above my ears. Speakers are presently on 24" stands. I tried a 20" stand as well but no change. Any suggestions on how to rectify? Thank you,
Bill

jaybar
21-08-2007, 12:54 AM
Ears should be level with or slightly below tweeter. Also make sure the soeakers are level with respect to front to back and side to side. You may need a slightly taller stand.

Jay

jaybar
21-08-2007, 01:14 AM
Before you buy new stands, insert something under the speakers (like wood blocks) that will not harm the finish, so that you can see the effects of raising the speakers.

If you are in the USA, Sound Anchor seels 26" stands for the M30's. I bet that Skylan could make them as well.

Try raising the speakers before you puchase.

Jay

Bill C
21-08-2007, 01:58 PM
Hi Jay,
Thank you for responding. If ears are supposed to be at or slightly below the tweeters, then it would seem that my stands are already too tall. I will try and experiment though and see. I really don't want to go taller than 24" if at all possible. Tweeters would be shooting over my head! Thanks,
Bill

jaybar
21-08-2007, 04:45 PM
Bill-

I realized I made a mistake and you probably need shorter stands.

However, are they level as measured with a good bubble level. I have found that when my Harbeths are NOT front to back level, that effects soundstage height.

Jay

Bill C
23-08-2007, 01:46 AM
Yes, they seem to be pretty level. I listened at my dealer's today, and soundstage height wasn't much different. I guess it's just the nature of the 30's. It's not too low I guess, but lower than what I was used to.
-Bill

Bill C
23-08-2007, 11:33 PM
I was wondering if anyone has had luck pairing the 30's with a sub. If so, what models work well for a music only system in the $1000-$2500 range? Most important is musicality and ability to blend well with the 30's. Room is small (10'X14'). thank you,
Bill

0477
26-08-2007, 09:44 PM
Given the small room, I would be very hesitant to add a sub as it's likely no matter which one you get it will overload the room. Because of the small dimensions, the resonant frequencies will be in the critical mid-bass, perhaps around 60 and 120 Hz. It might be next to impossible to get a seamless overlap with the M30s and you risk ruining they're excellent response. Try borrowing a sub from a friend or dealer first. You may also look into a sub that offers more complex EQ.

Giuseva
02-09-2007, 01:15 AM
Hi,
I have the following system:
Linn Axis turntable
Linn Akito arm
LInn K9
Naim CD5x
Naim Nac 72 preamp
Naim Hicap power supply
Naim Nap 140 power amp
Linn Tukan Speakers
One of my reference dealers strongly suggested I switch to Harbeth Home Monitor 30.
The system is placed in a 4m x 5m library room, bookshelves on three sides, two windows on the fourth, a 1.4m x 1.4m central table.
Floormounts would be totally impractical, and the Tukans are placed on a shelf at 1.2m from floor level.
The Monitor 30 could be placed at .7m (70cm) from floor level on the top of a 20 drawers cupboard containing 2500 cd's.
Is it a real disaster?

Giuseppe, Italy

vaughn3d
02-09-2007, 04:58 AM
The real disaster would be not getting yourself a pair of Harbeths. I use C7s with a Nait5 and I believe your 72/hi/140 would be a nice match. If I were you though, I would try to figure out a way to get the speakers onto some nice Skylan stands rather than the shelf.

Hu
02-09-2007, 06:36 AM
The real disaster would be not getting yourself a pair of Harbeths. I use C7s with a Nait5 and I believe your 72/hi/140 would be a nice match. If I were you though, I would try to figure out a way to get the speakers onto some nice Skylan stands rather than the shelf.

Totally agree! Such nice Naim combo, I suppose M30 would sing as angel with them, but better on good speaker stands.

Giuseva
02-09-2007, 01:54 PM
Totally agree! Such nice Naim combo, I suppose M30 would sing as angel with them, but better on good speaker stands.

Hi,
That is very encouraging to hear from you both.
Unfortunately, the stands are not an option. What about some sort of wall (thick solid stone wall) mounts, so the speaker is suspended and not touching the cupboard?
Do you know the Linn Tukan? In which area and in what sense should I expect an inprovement?
Cheers,
Giuse

vaughn3d
02-09-2007, 03:44 PM
I wouldn't exepect a wall mount to work as there is no way to attach the bracket without drilling into the cabinet. Placing them on the cupboard will work, just not as well as proper stands. Sorry, I have not heard the Linns and cannot compare them, although I did hear some top of the line Linns recently and felt they were extremely aggressive in the treble. My guess is that the M30 will sound much better than the Tukans.

Giuseva
02-09-2007, 04:44 PM
I wouldn't exepect a wall mount to work as there is no way to attach the bracket without drilling into the cabinet. Placing them on the cupboard will work, just not as well as proper stands. Sorry, I have not heard the Linns and cannot compare them, although I did hear some top of the line Linns recently and felt they were extremely aggressive in the treble. My guess is that the M30 will sound much better than the Tukans.

I was thinking about a dedicated metal shelf and the speaker placed on it without screws. Is it nonsense?

A.S.
03-09-2007, 09:59 AM
I think that the cabinets will be tolerant of any mounting arrangement providing that you don't screw into the crossover which sits around the terminal area.

However, as explained elsewhere here, Harbeth speakers are optimised for use with air around them i.e. on stands, as far from reflecting surfaces (floor, wall, ceiling, back wall) as possible. OK so what if they are very near to a surface? Well, the best way to explain this is for you to hear it yourself: play music, sit in your hot seat - have someone lift the speakers off their stands whilst you listen .... you will notice that the quality of the bass will change when they put them directly onto the floor. On the floor the sound will be rich and bass heavy. This is exactly what you will hear if you mount them on a shelf, which is, of course, another nearby surface.

If your amp has a bass control. or you are lucky enough to have a tilt control function you can significantly compensate for the bass lift.

Giuseva
03-09-2007, 10:37 AM
I think that the cabinets will be tolerant of any mounting arrangement providing that you don't screw into the crossover which sits around the terminal area.

However, as explained elsewhere here, Harbeth speakers are optimised for use with air around them i.e. on stands, as far from reflecting surfaces (floor, wall, ceiling, back wall) as possible. OK so what if they are very near to a surface? Well, the best way to explain this is for you to hear it yourself: play music, sit in your hot seat - have someone lift the speakers off their stands whilst you listen .... you will notice that the quality of the bass will change when they put them directly onto the floor. On the floor the sound will be rich and bass heavy. This is exactly what you will hear if you mount them on a shelf, which is, of course, another nearby surface.

If your amp has a bass control. or you are lucky enough to have a tilt control function you can significantly compensate for the bass lift.

Hi,
thanks for your opinion. As you know Naim preamps do not have tone controls, and I have always been happy and reassured by that. What is a a tilt control?
Your reccomendations are very clear, but If I cannot follow them completely, am I heading for disaster or just for a suboptimality which is a big improvement on my Linn Tukan (or Katan), or n-Sat,or any other shelf speaker?

A.S.
03-09-2007, 01:49 PM
The tilt control was (or is?) a feature of the QUAD preamps.

I freely admit that I am not familiar with the speakers you mention. At the back of my mind is the recollection that certain speakers - maybe those? - were specifically designed to be used up against a rear wall. In other words, when they were being designed, the designer made a conscious decision about how much bass to give them. If he concentrated the design on giving a high efficiency (loud) midrange at the expense of bass (which would allow the specification to quote a nice, eye catching dB sensitivity figure from the midrange) then for the speakers to sound correctly balanced it would be mandatory for them to be used against a wall to 'prop-up' the lean bass.

From a marketing viewpoint this would be a valid approach since certain users would doubtless like their speakers nestling invisibly on a bookshelf amongst the books.

All you will experience is a bass boost when using a 'free field' speaker (such as a Harbeth) up against a wall. If you follow my little experiment with such a speaker you'll hear the effect for yourself. Conversely, if you remove the rear wall from a speaker designed to be used against the wall (by putting it on a stand away from the wall) you can hear the converse effect: bass shyness.

I guess the lesson from this is ..... ASK the manufacturer whether he designed the speaker for use in a free-field situation (on a stand, away from the walls) OR for use on shelf. It is not technically possible to optimise for both situations - whatever the salesman may say.

Hu
03-09-2007, 02:06 PM
Hi,
That is very encouraging to hear from you both.
Unfortunately, the stands are not an option. What about some sort of wall (thick solid stone wall) mounts, so the speaker is suspended and not touching the cupboard?
Do you know the Linn Tukan? In which area and in what sense should I expect an inprovement?
Cheers,
Giuse

Hi,

I don't know Linn Tukan. For me, M30 are very vrey good speakers for domestic listening, I could listen to them day and night, even with terrible headache, no fatigue.

Hu

Giuseva
03-09-2007, 04:36 PM
The tilt control was (or is?) a feature of the QUAD preamps.

I freely admit that I am not familiar with the speakers you mention. At the back of my mind is the recollection that certain speakers - maybe those? - were specifically designed to be used up against a rear wall. In other words, when they were being designed, the designer made a conscious decision about how much bass to give them. If he concentrated the design on giving a high efficiency (loud) midrange at the expense of bass (which would allow the specification to quote a nice, eye catching dB sensitivity figure from the midrange) then for the speakers to sound correctly balanced it would be mandatory for them to be used against a wall to 'prop-up' the lean bass.

From a marketing viewpoint this would be a valid approach since certain users would doubtless like their speakers nestling invisibly on a bookshelf amongst the books.

All you will experience is a bass boost when using a 'free field' speaker (such as a Harbeth) up against a wall. If you follow my little experiment with such a speaker you'll hear the effect for yourself. Conversely, if you remove the rear wall from a speaker designed to be used against the wall (by putting it on a stand away from the wall) you can hear the converse effect: bass shyness.

I guess the lesson from this is ..... ASK the manufacturer whether he designed the speaker for use in a free-field situation (on a stand, away from the walls) OR for use on shelf. It is not technically possible to optimise for both situations - whatever the salesman may say.

Sir,
thanks a lot.
My main question still is given the speakers placement I described am I heading for disaster or for an acceptable imperfection which is going to be balanced by the advantage of an otherwise natural and transparent speaker?

A.S.
03-09-2007, 04:51 PM
That's not really possible for me to say! Yes, there will be more bass if you use a free-field speaker (such as a Harbeth) near a wall. Maybe you will like this extra bass! Or, maybe you will feel that it is excessive. I can not say as it is a matter of personal opinion. But, why not try the simple experiments I suggest and then you are in a much better position than me to decide.

The purity of the Harbeth midrange will not technically change according to the proximity (or not) or a rear wall: what will change is your perception of overall balance which will be biased in favour of bass frequencies. Personally, I think that there will be quite a lot more bass - but this will only be really obvious when listening to music with a strong bass line. If you like "simple" music like choral or chamber music which has little bass content anyway, I think you will have no problem with mounting on a shelf.

Giuseva
03-09-2007, 05:42 PM
That's not really possible for me to say! Yes, there will be more bass if you use a free-field speaker (such as a Harbeth) near a wall. Maybe you will like this extra bass! Or, maybe you will feel that it is excessive. I can not say as it is a matter of personal opinion. But, why not try the simple experiments I suggest and then you are in a much better position than me to decide.

(Personally, I think that there will be quite a lot more bass - but this will only be really obvious when listening to music with a strong bass line. If you like "simple" music like choral or chamber music I think you will have no problem).

Sir,
thnks a lot for taking the pain to answer my questions. It is extremely kind of you to do so.
I don't mind a bit of bass. The reason why I would like to switch from my present speakers to another one is mainly that I do not hear enough bass.
I have a 2500 cd's collection and about 600 vinyl lp's, and I am pretty omnivorous with music. I have a preference for jazz, both acoustic and, late sixties, Miles Davies inspired, electric jazz. But I do not mind experimental electronic musicians.
I do listen to pop too, and I am working my way through classical.
The best thing would be to have a home audition of the Harbeth.
Regards,
Giuseppe

A.S.
03-09-2007, 07:19 PM
It's my pleasure to help. We only want 100% satisfied customers because satisfied customers are the best form of advertising by word of mouth. So, if you ask us a question and we do not feel absolutely sure that you will be satisfied, then I feel obliged to tell you.

It is interesting that you mention that you like jazz: I do too. I have observed a couple of things about jazz music when I listen at home ....

1. To capture the 'jazz club feel' you need a warm, seductive bass since live music has (in my opinion) a lush quality in the bass that is difficult for normal speakers to reproduce at home. But the Harbeth thin-wall design uses the entire box surface to radiate at low frequencies so it sound like an 12" or 15" driver even though it is much smaller - say 8".

2. It is impossible for conventional speakers to reproduce brass instruments properly. A real live trumpet is both warm and simultaneously it has a bite which demands attention. In my experience only our RADIAL cone can reproduce brass (including Miles Davis); other cones sound at one extreme too soft, dry and airless or at another excessively bright, shrill and peaky but without the attractive warmth.

When designing I extensively use jazz because I find that the brass is an exceedingly revealing test source. It has taken me many years to actually come to like brass though but now I can hear the micro-tones I begin to understand that brass is an extension of the performer's voice box, hence his soul.

Hu
04-09-2007, 01:58 AM
2. It is impossible for conventional speakers to reproduce brass instruments properly. A real live trumpet is both warm and simultaneously it has a bite which demands attention. In my experience only our RADIAL cone can reproduce brass (including Miles Davis); other cones sound at one extreme too soft, dry and airless or at another excessively bright, shrill and peaky but without the attractive warmth.

When designing I extensively use jazz because I find that the brass is an exceedingly revealing test source. It has taken me many years to actually come to like brass though but now I can hear the micro-tones I begin to understand that brass is an extension of the performer's voice box, hence his soul.

I always think tha my M30 are extremely good at broadcasting trumpet, horn etc.

Giuseva
08-09-2007, 09:15 AM
It's my pleasure to help. We only want 100% satisfied customers because satisfied customers are the best form of advertising by word of mouth. So, if you ask us a question and we do not feel absolutely sure that you will be satisfied, then I feel obliged to tell you.

It is interesting that you mention that you like jazz: I do too. I have observed a couple of things about jazz music when I listen at home ....

1. To capture the 'jazz club feel' you need a warm, seductive bass since live music has (in my opinion) a lush quality in the bass that is difficult for normal speakers to reproduce at home. But the Harbeth thin-wall design uses the entire box surface to radiate at low frequencies so it sound like an 12" or 15" driver even though it is much smaller - say 8".

2. It is impossible for conventional speakers to reproduce brass instruments properly. A real live trumpet is both warm and simultaneously it has a bite which demands attention. In my experience only our RADIAL cone can reproduce brass (including Miles Davis); other cones sound at one extreme too soft, dry and airless or at another excessively bright, shrill and peaky but without the attractive warmth.

When designing I extensively use jazz because I find that the brass is an exceedingly revealing test source. It has taken me many years to actually come to like brass though but now I can hear the micro-tones I begin to understand that brass is an extension of the performer's voice box, hence his soul.

Hello,
I went to your dealer in Milan and listened to the Home Monitors 30 and, frankly, whatever the limitations and shortcomings of my listening room, I really want a pair. It was quite a distinctive experience. Hope to be able to get them soon.
Regards.

Bill C
22-09-2007, 09:57 PM
I'm trying to decide on a sub to mate with M30's and was wondering what crossover slope I should be looking for on the low pass. Some give you a choice, but most do not. Also, which subs would you recommend as being the most musical for a two channel system? Thank you.
-Bill

John Willett
03-11-2007, 01:34 AM
I have the , unfortunately now discontinued, Active Monitor 30s.

They are magic - I use them for both domestic listening and studio monitoring.

When it comes to loudspeakers that you can trust; that are natural and revealing and don't colour the music there are *very* few to choose from and the Harbeth are definitely in the top three and are the least expensive of the three when you compare for equal quality.

eelekim
08-11-2007, 05:56 PM
Has the change of the internal wiring with ultra pure OFC wire to the 30th anniversary limited signature edition of M30 been decided after tests with positive results? Or is it primarily a marketing decision for pleasing the general audiophiles with the tweak and the collectors with the limited signature nature in this special year? Why hasn't such wire been used in the standard edition? Should all the prospective buyers of Harbeth speakers wait for another special edition with another tweak to enjoy more of the already great design? Could I say that the standard edition is the official version that should be brought up whenever the model is called upon whilst the different special editions are only variations that are basically not what M30 was intended to be originally? If I want to buy M30, should I buy the standard edition rather than the special edition for the result supposedly closer to the very heart and mind of the designer?

Sorry for the many questions. As a matter of fact, I'm struggling to choose between the standard edition and the anniversary edition...

Best regards
mike

airdavid
08-11-2007, 06:16 PM
Has the change of the internal wiring with ultra pure OFC wire to the 30th anniversary limited signature edition of M30 been decided after tests with positive results?

Best regards
mike


I hope no...

David

Bill C
10-11-2007, 11:50 PM
Hello Alan,
I'm planning to order some spades to terminate my speaker wire and was wondering if you could tell me what size best fits the M30's binding posts. Thank you,
-Bill

A.S.
13-11-2007, 11:28 AM
I have measured a gold binding post of the type we've used for about 5 years. I measured the central pillar as 8.3mm diameter and I suggest that about 8.5mm would be a nice snug fit. 9.0mm would be a little loose but would still make good connection. You could probably bend inwards the tips of an over-size spade to improve its contact area.

In my opinion, it makes no real difference whether you connect your spades to the upper or lower terminal pair if the biwire links remain fitted.

BillD
20-11-2007, 02:45 AM
Hi Alan,

Purchased a used pair of M30's a few months ago. Found the bass to be lacking limited in dynamic range. After I sold them I found that one of the bass drivers had a large split in it. No doubt this contributed to the poor sound quality of the M30's. Will be auditioning a set of your 30th Anniversary edition M30's tomorrow.

Have been running a pair of Rogers Studio II speakers for the past 29 years. My setup includes Mcintosh 275 IV tube power amp, C220 tube preamp, MR85 tuner and a HP laptop computer feeding a Benchmark USB DAC. Room 15 x 16 x 9 feet.

Bill

BillD
20-11-2007, 02:45 AM
Hi Alan,

Purchased a used pair of M30's a few months ago. Found the bass to be lacking limited in dynamic range. After I sold them I found that one of the bass drivers had a large split in it. No doubt this contributed to the poor sound quality of the M30's. Will be auditioning a set of your 30th Anniversary edition M30's tomorrow.

Have been running a pair of Rogers Studio II speakers for the past 29 years. My setup includes Mcintosh 275 IV tube power amp, C220 tube preamp, MR85 tuner and a HP laptop computer feeding a Benchmark USB DAC. Room 15 x 16 x 9 feet.

Bill

airdavid
20-11-2007, 09:13 AM
are the 30 anniversary Monitor 30s better than the normal Monitor 30?

David

terence
09-01-2008, 04:02 AM
David

I have recently bought the 30 th anniversary monitor 30, due to using the studio grade internal cables, I think the special model is better than the normal one.

TT

jaybar
20-01-2008, 05:13 PM
Anyone using your Monitor 30's without Toe in? How have you found the off-axis response?

Thanks,

Jay

drjimbo
25-02-2008, 07:29 PM
Does anyone have experience using M30's with DRC - Digital Room Correction? I know REG (Robert Greene) of UCLA and The Absolute Sound has done some formal and informal work with DRC and his M40's, but as the M30 offers much less lower bass (20Hz - 40Hz) the need may not be as great. DRC certainly does attempt to deal with room anomalies above the lower bass, but my sense is that the this is the particularly problematic region.

Any thoughts or comments

eelekim
14-04-2008, 05:33 PM
My dad has given me a pair of supertweeters to try. After setting them up, I found the overall sound was more airy but not natural. The top end was harder. I decided to be back to the basics. It seems it's not easy to add more on the well-designed speaker.

During the supertweeter set-up, I found that one of the binding post screws is not opened!

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y256/eelekim/2008_0414_183002AA.jpg

Anyone has the same problem? What can I do with the closed screw?

Laurie
15-04-2008, 11:41 AM
A bit late in replying, but I've only just properly registered on this site yesterday - I did buy and play around a little, with a low cost Behringer DEQ2496 a year or so ago, whilst I had my M30s on audition - but as I was more concerned then with 'evaluating' the speakers (which I did buy and have not regretted), I did not pay the EQ too much attention. I remember wanting to be able to somehow record, the frequency plots and filter settings, but couldn't find an easy way of saving these onto a PC. I've now got the Behringer back after extended loan to someone else and the next step is to get a sound card for the PC and a low cost program such as 'Trueaudio', to be able to display the curves.

I see the Behringer as an intermediate step, as it is basically only a steady state DSP graphic equalizer type device - however some say that this is all that is needed for dealing with bass problems. However, I understand that more expensive equalizers use time based correction to filter out room reflections in the mid range.

I eventually want to do it properly though, hooking up a sub in the corner with appropriate delay facility - TacT style. A number of people have said nice things about the TaCT RCS 2.2x, as not only does it do room correction and integrate subs with appropriate delays to the main speakers, but the A/D and D/A conversion is said to high quality too - probably a lot better than that in the Behringer. The other option I'm considering, is a PC based system called <<<Acourate>>> developed by Uli Brueggeman, as it is very reasonably priced. Uli contributes amongst several Yahoo groups, to regsaudioforum. He claims that this system has a much greater number of 'coefficients' than stand alone devides like Tact. It can also be used for a 3 way x-over with appropriate phasing compensation, which would enable a Tact style sub integration. A former contibutor to regsaudioforum who had M30s, reported 2 years ago that he had tried <<<Acourate>>> and was deeply impressed with the results.

Apologies for the lengthy message, but whilst talking of <<<Acourate>>>, I thought it would be nice to mention that Uli posted a complimentary message about M30s, also on regonaudio, about a month ago. He doesn't know Harbeths all that well, but in the process of demonstrating his roomEQ system to a potential customer in the Far East, he discovered that the M30s "measure damn good and sound pretty well without correction" though he noted EQing did bring on greater clarity and depth of soundstage. He said he would love to own these speakers.

Laurie

harbethpr
21-04-2008, 10:08 PM
Here is a short video file (QT format) of the Harbeth 30s used to monitor a live radio programme - audience several million listeners. After the signal leaves this studio (monitored on the 30s) it goes straight to the transmitter and the internet. Interesting to note that on the presenter's side of the glass they have a pair of the old and much larger BBC LS5/8 which are not used for formal monitoring. M30s are used on their side in the control room - not perhaps ideal but necessary in this set-up.

The sound in this clip (http://www.harbeth.co.uk/library/movies/movieclips/Harbeth%20M30%20at%20the%20BBC.mov) is highly compressed and the image is small. It will stream to your QuickTime player.

zhangyu.H
30-06-2008, 02:52 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm from mainland China, Jilin Province, Changchun.
It's my virgin Thread here.

I have concerned about this music speaker brand for about 5 years.Luckily,one and a half year ago,Harbeth M30 comes to my home, I'm deeply addicted to the natural,sweet sound.My system is :
cd player:spark cd 17-a(full banlanced) ;
Amps:spark sc-120 full banlanced pre-amplifier(transistor);
spark a88t power amplifier(tube kt88 pp)

My combination didn't cost too much,but I know that they bring me to the correct healthy way to enjoying music.

Hope to make friends with you harbeth fans.
At last,thank you Alan for your endeavor of manufacture such good treasure!

Gan CK
30-06-2008, 08:38 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm from mainland China, Jilin Province, Changchun.
It's my virgin Thread here.

I have concerned about this music speaker brand for about 5 years.Luckily,one and a half year ago,Harbeth M30 comes to my home, I'm deeply addicted to the natural,sweet sound.My system is :
cd player:spark cd 17-a(full banlanced) ;
Amps:spark sc-120 full banlanced pre-amplifier(transistor);
spark a88t power amplifier(tube kt88 pp)

My combination didn't cost too much,but I know that they bring me to the correct healthy way to enjoying music.
Hope to make friends with you harbeth fans.
At last,thank you Alan for your endeavor of manufacture such good treasure!

Hi Zhangyu.H,

Welcome to kingdom Harbeth & this user group. Over here, you can converse with Harbeth users all over the world & from all walks of life but above all, you can also communicate with our dear Alan Shaw, the man behind these brilliant loudspeakers. Alan not only sells excellent handcrafted loudspeakers but also maintains a close relationship with his customers through this user group. I am sure your purchase of the M30 will bring you many many hours of musical pleasure & will even grow on you as time goes by. Have fun with your M30s.

zhangyu.H
30-06-2008, 10:56 AM
Gan CK,
Thank you for your reply,it is always happy & encouraged for music lovers to communicate with each other,especially we are Harbeth lovers.People of one kind come together!

zhangyu.H
30-06-2008, 11:48 AM
Another questiion:Am I qualified to put up pictureshere?If I can, how?

Gan CK
30-06-2008, 06:24 PM
Another questiion:Am I qualified to put up pictureshere?If I can, how?

Hi Zhangyu.H, of course you can post pics of your setup here. In fact, we have a thread here specifically for that. Well for me i save the pic/s in my pc then open a photobucket a/c & from there, i attach the pic from the pc to the photobucket a/c. Next, copy the direct link URL from photobucket then paste it on the 'Insert Image' icon found above. Don't forget to click on the insert image icon 1st before you paste the URL. Have fun.

zhangyu.H
01-07-2008, 04:15 AM
Hi Zhangyu.H, of course you can post pics of your setup here. In fact, we have a thread here specifically for that. Well for me i save the pic/s in my pc then open a photobucket a/c & from there, i attach the pic from the pc to the photobucket a/c. Next, copy the direct link URL from photobucket then paste it on the 'Insert Image' icon found above. Don't forget to click on the insert image icon 1st before you paste the URL. Have fun.

Gan CK
Thank you for your warm,detailed instructions for me,It's useful for a "freshman" here.I will try it.
Thanks again.

Soundbyte
01-07-2008, 05:17 AM
Hi Zhangyu.H welcome.... glad to know you're enjoying your Harbeth M30. If you would like to view other owners around the world setup... have a look at this link... Photos of your beloved Harbeth Speakers & Setup (http://www.harbeth.co.uk/usergroup/showthread.php?t=338)

Cheers...

Gan CK
01-07-2008, 07:05 AM
Gan CK
Thank you for your warm,detailed instructions for me,It's useful for a "freshman" here.I will try it.
Thanks again.


You are welcome. Feel free to raise any issues you may have in posting the pic. Oh & post your setup pic in the link provided by Soundbyte. :)

zhangyu.H
01-07-2008, 08:57 AM
Hi Zhangyu.H welcome.... glad to know you're enjoying your Harbeth M30. If you would like to view other owners around the world setup... have a look at this link... Photos of your beloved Harbeth Speakers & Setup (http://www.harbeth.co.uk/usergroup/showthread.php?t=338)

Cheers...

Thank you for your link,I will try it.

zhangyu.H
01-07-2008, 11:24 AM
Hi Gan CK & Soundbyte,
I have put some pics of my setup,thank you for your helping,and beg your advice.
sincerely Zhangyu

keithwwk
01-07-2008, 11:25 AM
Hi zhangyu.H,
Welcome and looking forward to see your lovely setup...:)

zhangyu.H
02-07-2008, 11:11 AM
Hi,friends,I've put up some pics of my system at http://www.harbeth.co.uk/usergroup/showthread.php?p=3388#post3388, hope you can give me some advice,thank you.
zhangyu

jaybar
30-07-2008, 05:01 PM
Hi Alan

I am in the USA and have my Monitor 30's for almost 4 years. They were purchased as a dealer demo from a harbeth dealer. They are in maple, which is not even imported anymore into the USA.

They are beginning to develop cracks or blemishes in the finnish which look like raised lines in parallel-sort of like what a small scar woudl look like on your arm.

Needless to say they do not effect the acoustics of the speakers, but they certainly would adverselt effect resale value, should I ever went to sell them.

I have never had this with any other pair of speakers!

Since they are still under warrantee, is this type of thing covered and if so, what are my options?

I must say that I am not happy about this.

Looking forward to hearing what can be done.

Thanks in Advance.

Jay

KT88
19-01-2009, 03:37 AM
Hello, Alan

I was wondering if the 30th Anniversary Edition of the Monitor 30 incorporates the new Radial 2 driver?

Look forward to hearing from you.

Bob LaBarca
State College, PA
USA

harbethpr
19-01-2009, 12:03 PM
No. The M30 does not use the RADIAL2 woofer. The Compact 7ES3 and the Monitor 40.1 use the RADIAL2 woofer. The M40.1 uses it in a special version as a midrange driver.

Vlado
19-01-2009, 05:54 PM
huh, what about the SHL5 ???


No. The M30 does not use the RADIAL2 woofer. The Compact 7ES3 and the Monitor 40.1 use the RADIAL2 woofer. The M40.1 uses it in a special version as a midrange driver.

A.S.
19-01-2009, 08:18 PM
The SHL5 does not use the RADIAL2 driver.

Vlado
19-01-2009, 09:39 PM
What is the difference between Radial 1 and 2 ?
the speaker sounds wery simmilar except the cleaner hights and the bigger bass in case of SHL5 vs. C7? Altough the C7 has better soundstage!



The SHL5 does not use the RADIAL2 driver.

A.S.
19-01-2009, 10:27 PM
The RADIAL2 woofer has a different surround. Humble though it may look, the surround is an extremely critical chemical-mechanical component. Too much damping, and the sound is lifeless: too little damping and the round is hard. But, the optimum surround thickness and hence mass will (obviously) effect sensitivity. One reason that for some years speakers have been boasting seemingly ever-increasing sensitivity is because the manufactures have been thinning-down and removing damping from their surrounds to save weight hence increase sensitivity.

This is exactly analogous to stripping a car bare to reduce weight and increase acceleration and top speed. But who would want to bump along with such a hard ride?

ebenai
20-01-2009, 03:22 AM
Hi guys:

Quick question. I just got a pair of M30. Purchased them in the second hand market. They are in pristine condition. My only observation is that the grilles don't have the Harbeth logo. They fit perfectly. They were both in the US. Should I worried about this?

KT88
20-01-2009, 05:10 AM
Thanks for the replies to my last post, folks.

I have another question: how does one remove the grill from a M30 without destroying something? I've stopped trying. Alan, I know that you've designed an acoustically transparent grill that you would prefer to see left in place; but you've also built a beautifully veneered front baffle with that nicely radiused woofer mounting. If you really don't want us messing back there, why don't you affix the grills permanently and save yourself and the consumer some money by doing away with the wood veneer up front?

Thanks, looking forward to your reply

Bob LaBarca
State College, PA
USA

A.S.
20-01-2009, 09:23 AM
Have you not seen the videos I made and posted right here on the Harbeth User Group concerning a) the Harbeth DIY paperclip grille puller and the Skylan magnetic one?

I direct you to the thread "How to safely remove the grilles (http://www.harbeth.co.uk/usergroup/showthread.php?p=4281#post4281)"

By the way, the spelling is GRILLE not grill. I've edited your post. Unfortunately, if the word is not spelled correctly when you search the HUG for grille you will not find grill and vice versa.

A.S.
20-01-2009, 09:25 AM
I edited your post. It is GRILLE not grill. Unfortunately, if the word is not spelled correctly when you search the HUG for grille you will not find grill and vice versa.

ebenai
20-01-2009, 06:58 PM
Thanks. I'm sorry about the spelling. English is not my mother tongue. The grilles are fine. They fit well. They just don't have the logo and I was wandering if in some markets (US) these come w/o grilles or perhaps the previous owner removed them? Is that possible?

Vanmar
22-04-2009, 09:24 AM
Dear Harbeth's Friends,

I'm the happy owner of a SHL5 loudspeaker system. Yesterday I had the chance to have an audition of a Monitor 30, amplified with my Lavardin IT. Well, it was really an experience! From respect to the natural music reproduction this was the best audtion I had in my life!

I attend many concerts and live music and nothing appered me before so close to these. The piano and the strings were so real, that's unbelivable.

Everything so rigorous and serene. (as soon as my budget will allow me to do it I'll go on dealing with the M30 from the SHL5).

Good job boys!

Jmohd
22-04-2009, 12:29 PM
Dear Harbeth's Friends, ...From respect to the natural music reproduction this was the best audtion I had in my life!...Good job boys!


Vanmar,

So, M30 is better than SHL5? Do you do side by side comparision?

Pls do remember that your room size, room acoustic, speaker placement .. to name a few also play a part.

coredump
22-04-2009, 02:13 PM
M30 > SHL5 ?

BTW, what is the different between domestic and non-domestic version?

Gan CK
22-04-2009, 05:11 PM
M30 > SHL5 ?

BTW, what is the different between domestic and non-domestic version?

If i am not wrong, main differences lie in the speaker terminals & finishing of the cabinet. Anyway, having heard SHL-5 & M30 side by side, i think i still prefer SHL-5 by a long shot. However, both were driven by modest electronics & i suspect that the M30 is much more demanding in this aspect whereas SHL-5 works practically with any decent amp.

Vanmar
23-04-2009, 09:26 AM
Vanmar,

So, M30 is better than SHL5? Do you do side by side comparision?

Pls do remember that your room size, room acoustic, speaker placement .. to name a few also play a part.

I never say that something is better than something else in this field.
I can just say what I like most.
In the room I audioned - 3,5x5m - the M30 sounded in such a way I liked them more than the SHL5, when compared.
More natural, not better.

ryder
25-12-2009, 01:27 PM
Merry Christmas everybody.

I am toying around the idea of getting another Harbeth speaker to add some variety in my music and am looking at the M30 that previously did not push the right buttons. Although my brief audition between the SHL5 and M30 previously revealed the latter to be more shut-in and less open, the M30 does sound more controlled and exhibit better crescendos and transient attack compared to the other two. Sound of instruments on the M30 such as guitar, saxophone and trumpet possess more bite as well. Silent passages on the M30 seem to be pitch black compared to the SHL5 as the crescendos lept forward more prominently from a silent background. The significantly different sonic character of the M30 steered me towards it as the similarities between the SHL5 and C7ES3 are more alike.

As an SHL5 owner I would like a 2nd opinion in justifying my decision to go with the M30 and not the C7ES3. The reason I am considering the M30 is because it sounded substantially different compared to the SHL5 whereas the C7ES3 sounded almost similar to the SHL5. I would want a different sounding speaker to add some variety in my listening experience.

The other reason I am considering another Harbeth and not other brand of speakers is because after listening to another pair of speaker in my system just recently(I was considering another more dynamic speaker to add some spice in my musical collection ), I seriously don't know whether I can live with other speakers anymore in long-term. No doubt the particular speaker seems to possess excellent transparency, dynamics and high-end extension and has a raw sound to it that sounded pretty darn impressive at first. After about 30 minutes of listening at above average volume levels, my ears started to hurt, buzzed a little, and I then sensed a severe headache coming. I quickly lowered down the volume and listened at below average levels after that but things were not improving. Listening fatigue was high with this speaker. I then switched back to the SHL5 and man, I can't help but keep cranking up the volume and tapping my feet along the beat. Ears don't hurt anymore and headache gone.

Certain people may find Harbeths little dull for their tastes, and I can understand that. However, the extremely low listening fatigue of these natural-sounding speakers that promotes endless hours of sheer musical bliss is the key factor that made Harbeths so special IMO. Most people keep coming back to the Harbeths after a while and won't get tired of them.

Okay now, M30 or C7ES3? I can seriously settle with any Harbeth and be happy with all of them. However, I can only limit myself to two pairs. Any opinions would be appreciated.

DrewTurner
25-12-2009, 06:58 PM
Don't forget the new P3ESR.This little GIANT KILLER give the Compact 7's a real run for the money.To my ears,the P3ESR's sound has a different character then the the 7's or the 5's.

vaughn3d
25-12-2009, 07:28 PM
I find myself in a similar situation...I love my C7es2s, but have the opportunity to move to either M30s or SHL5s...wondering which way to go. I cannot imagine owning any other speaker besides Harbeth, at least that makes the decision process a bit easier.

KT88
25-12-2009, 11:55 PM
Hello, Ryder and Merry Christmas!

My first exposure to Harbeth was through the Compact 7 Es-2's, which I still own and love. As I got involved with this user group and learned more about the history of Harbeth, it became very clear that Alan's inspiration and passion comes from the BBC heritage. It was for this reason as well, that when the opportunity came along to own another pair of Harbeths, I chose the Monitor 30. These are direct descendants of the BBC spec LS-5/9. I suppose this might seem to be an irrational decision-making process, but I wanted a piece of that history. As a professional musician, I knew that a monitor speaker is designed to tell the truth, warts and all, and that I would likely have no regrets...I don't, and never will.

The Monitor 30's will be a very complimentary second pair of Harbeths to your SHL 5's, as I feel they are to my Compact 7's. Take the plunge-you won't regret it!

Regards!

Bob LaBarca
State College, PA
USA

ryder
26-12-2009, 04:53 PM
Hi Bob, Thanks for your thoughts. The odds of the M30 ending up as my 2nd speaker in complementing the SHL5 are high now. Need to figure out the amp later.

Drewturner, I do know the P3ESR are excellent speakers having listened to them in a friend's setup. I have three excellent choices in the P3ESR, C7ES3 and M30 but unfortunately can only choose one. I am aware that the P3ESR sounded quite different from both C7ES3 and SHL5 but my very brief audition of the M30 almost convinced me that they sounded *very* different from the rest. In fact, that was the sole reason I scratched the M30 out during my first audition as the speakers didn't sound as open as I wanted them to be. After thinking back, since the M30 sounded quite a bit different from the usual suspects in the C7ES3 and SHL5, I might as well consider them as it doesn't make too much sense going for a speaker that sounded almost similar to the one I already have.

I cannot imagine I am now considering another Harbeth speaker. I tried a different speaker, a considerably more dynamic speaker with a lively top-end in an attempt to attain a different sound. I really wanted to like the speaker but all I've got is listening fatigue. After this experience only did I realise I cannot live with other speakers other than a Harbeth. No doubt there will be other speakers that can still appeal to me but I'm not bothered to look anymore. I am truly smitten by the smooth, natural and fatigue free sound of the Harbeth. The crucial element for me is to be able to listen to beautiful music at prolonged periods with zero or minimal listening fatigue. Although I have not listened to everything out there the Harbeths have proven to be able to give me that.

I just wonder how many hours a person usually spends on his non-Harbeth-based hifi rig on a typical day, and whether there would be anybody who can emulate some Harbeth owners here who manage to clock 10 hours and beyond that.

pete7013
27-12-2009, 04:51 AM
Hi Ryder, Merry Christmas. Another brand which you may like to try is Audio Note's ANJ-spe. They are about similar size as M30. They too sound very musical and non-fatiguing.

[Admin: May I remind you that this forum is run by Harbeth. It does not exist to promote other products]

Jmohd
27-12-2009, 06:26 AM
Hi ryder,

Is it for your second system intended for your previous listening room?

IMO, save a little more and get the Ultimate Harbeth - M40.1 and the Super 5 as your second system. You can place the M40.1 in your large living room.

As for audionote speakers, they are designed to be placed at the corners for the room.

Gan CK
27-12-2009, 10:56 AM
Audio note spks IMHO sound quite different from Harbeth. In direct comparison & driven by same amp, they are faster with sharper leading edge, more lively & transparent but also leaner, less rich in the midband & definitely more prone to fatigue than Harbeth.

[Edited: Simply cannot agree with comments. Admin.]

keithwwk
27-12-2009, 02:02 PM
Hi ryder,
Try to pm shutterbox. I think he can help you on SHL5 vs M30. To me, his advice on this is quite objective.

harbethpr
27-12-2009, 02:11 PM
Paper coned bought-in drive units with a foam (i.e. low damping, short life) surround? Are you serious?

ryder
27-12-2009, 03:48 PM
Thanks for all replies. Never gave Spendors a thought before although I read they share some resemblance to Harbeth having have some BBC roots. I was searching through the archives on Audiogon and accidentally stumbled upon a thread on the comparison between Spendor and Harbeth. I didn't realise I had actually responded in the thread as well.

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?cspkr&1245410602&openfrom&1&4#1

The responses by Muzikat and Brm1 had somehow steered me away from the Spendors. Although listening fatigue is of major concern, excitement and involvement factor are equally important as well. Seems like the Spendors may not suit my listening preferences, and moreover it is a huge risk to consider the speakers prior to listening to them. The Spendor classic series do look quite a bit similar to the Harbeth line of speakers though.

The M30 tiger ebony looks really good. Will see how it goes as I sort out my priorities for next year. The 40.1? Hmmm.. haven't really thought about that yet. Jmohd, I actually don't intend to set up a 2nd system in the living as I intend to use the additional pair of speakers as a back-up in the same dedicated room until I find another amp to set up a 2nd system in the bedroom or something. In the event I get bored of listening to the SHL5 I can always revert to the 2nd pair of speakers for a change. Placement in the living is too tricky as there isn't an ideal position to place the speakers for optimum sound reproduction due to the odd shape of the room. I enjoyed the sound from the SHL5's far more in the dedicated room than in the living. If there is allowance for a dedicated room it is a no-brainer to set up the system in the room.

hifi_dave
27-12-2009, 05:48 PM
I've got a shop full of speakers but what do I put on when I want to enjoy a new LP or CD ? The M40.1 !!!

If you can save for a pair, I would most strongly recommend you do, they are truly wonderful.

As for Spendor, they are bloomy, sloooooow and un-communicative. Not in the same class at all IMO. Style over substance, I believe, is the expression. Their 'Classic' series is more interesting than the newer models but even here they have not moved with the times as Harbeth have.

A.S.
27-12-2009, 06:05 PM
Any similarities between Harbeth speakers and any other brand is really nothing more than superficial. Let me list just the essential ingredients of Harbeth, which we and our users appreciate is the core of the Harbeth magical clarity:


Advanced RADIAL? cone, being a Harbeth made polymer compound exclusive to Harbeth developed as part of our govt. co-funded cone development project
Injection moulded cone (this is extremely critical to the final sound)
Thin-wall cabinets with removable panels to tune the sound
Complex multi-element crossover to separate the bass, mid and high frequencies
Consistent one designer, one sound, one philosophy for over twenty years

You need to employ, to even get on the first rung of the Harbeth quality and transparency ladder, a Harbeth-exclusive RADIAL? coned, injection moulded bass/mid driver. Comparisons with other products built around older, obsolete cone technology is therefore a waste of our reader's time. Vacuum formed cones from milk bottle plastic and paper cones made from who knows what just cannot, under even the most optimistic conditions, yield the Harbeth clarity.

If you want the Harbeth sound you have to buy Harbeth speakers.There are no direct equivalents when clarity and detail are paramount as an audition will expose.

harbethpr
27-12-2009, 06:18 PM
Can I just remind you that we are on the Harbeth User Group. This group is run by and maintained by Harbeth UK, an independent British-owned company. We work hard here to explain what Hartbeth is all about. Our objective is to prepare you with info / background about Harbeth speakers before you vist your dealer to audition.

Please explore other speakers alternatives at your hifi dealer. Select what you feel is right for you. To restate the link from the previous post, this is a good summary (http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?cspkr&1245410602&openfrom&1&4#1).

Shutterbox
30-12-2009, 03:08 PM
Hi Bob, Thanks for your thoughts. The odds of the M30 ending up as my 2nd speaker in complementing the SHL5 are high now. Need to figure out the amp later.

Drewturner, I do know the P3ESR are excellent speakers having listened to them in a friend's setup. I have three excellent choices in the P3ESR, C7ES3 and M30 but unfortunately can only choose one. I am aware that the P3ESR sounded quite different from both C7ES3 and SHL5 but my very brief audition of the M30 almost convinced me that they sounded *very* different from the rest. In fact, that was the sole reason I scratched the M30 out during my first audition as the speakers didn't sound as open as I wanted them to be. After thinking back, since the M30 sounded quite a bit different from the usual suspects in the C7ES3 and SHL5, I might as well consider them as it doesn't make too much sense going for a speaker that sounded almost similar to the one I already have.

I cannot imagine I am now considering another Harbeth speaker. I tried a different speaker, a considerably more dynamic speaker with a lively top-end in an attempt to attain a different sound. I really wanted to like the speaker but all I've got is listening fatigue. After this experience only did I realise I cannot live with other speakers other than a Harbeth. No doubt there will be other speakers that can still appeal to me but I'm not bothered to look anymore. I am truly smitten by the smooth, natural and fatigue free sound of the Harbeth. The crucial element for me is to be able to listen to beautiful music at prolonged periods with zero or minimal listening fatigue. Although I have not listened to everything out there the Harbeths have proven to be able to give me that.

I just wonder how many hours a person usually spends on his non-Harbeth-based hifi rig on a typical day, and whether there would be anybody who can emulate some Harbeth owners here who manage to clock 10 hours and beyond that.


Ryder,

The agent in Malaysia has both M30 and SHL5, so that why don't you set up an appointment for an audition?

To me, both are different enough in their presentation(apart from tonal quality) to listen for yourself to decided if you decide to own both of them and be wanting to swap listening experiences between them. i've posted a comparison between them and this week I had a repeat session to listen to them both and my experiences remain the same now and then.

You really have to listen to them to decide if u should go for a M30.

ryder
30-12-2009, 04:13 PM
Hi Shutterbox, thanks for the thoughts. I have read your earlier assessment on the M30 vs SHL5 in another thread and noted the differences between these speakers. I have actually listened to both speakers side-by-side together with the C7ES3 in the showroom when I first placed an order for the SHL5. At that time I preferred both SHL5 and C7ES3 more than the M30. The M30's presentation did not float my boat at that time. After auditioning other non-Harbeth speakers only did I realise it is difficult for me to consider other speakers other than a Harbeth. I will need to sort out my priorities though such as swapping speakers in the same system whenever I wanted to make a switch.

Do you own both SHL5 and M30?

Shutterbox
31-12-2009, 06:20 AM
Hi Shutterbox, thanks for the thoughts. I have read your earlier assessment on the M30 vs SHL5 in another thread and noted the differences between these speakers. I have actually listened to both speakers side-by-side together with the C7ES3 in the showroom when I first placed an order for the SHL5. At that time I preferred both SHL5 and C7ES3 more than the M30. The M30's presentation did not float my boat at that time. After auditioning other non-Harbeth speakers only did I realise it is difficult for me to consider other speakers other than a Harbeth. I will need to sort out my priorities though such as swapping speakers in the same system whenever I wanted to make a switch.

Do you own both SHL5 and M30?

So if M30 doesn't float you and you prefer the C7, what's your concern now?

Yes I own both of them.

ryder
31-12-2009, 09:20 AM
Personal concerns that are of minor importance to be discussed in the forums here.

Do you have both speakers in different rooms in separate systems? If yes, may I ask what amps are you using to drive the SHL5 and the M30?

A.S.
03-01-2010, 07:47 PM
I feel that It's important to consider the historical timeline of these speakers. The C7ES3, M40.1 and P3ESR were all designed with a common approach (and with the same software and hardware tools) in the last three years or so. They do have a common character. That said, many love the SHL5 and M30.

Paris Kotsis
04-01-2010, 09:02 PM
Having lived with almost all Harbeths (C7ES-2, M20, M40, M30, now P3ESR) and having auditioned carefully C7ES3 and current model SHL5, I must say I totally agree with Alan. To my ears, C7ES3 and P3ESR are more "modern" incarnations of the Harbeth sound and preferable over the other models, although I still find SHL5 and M30 absolutely lovable. They all seem to me like works of art but the latest creations seem more mature art.
That said, the particular "way" of Monitor Series is irresistible to me as I keep confirming when listening to M30. So I guess M40.1, which I haven't auditioned yet, must be the end of the journey - and should be with such a high price!

A.S.
04-01-2010, 10:38 PM
Having lived with almost all Harbeths ... I must say I totally agree with Alan. To my ears, C7ES3 and P3ESR are more "modern" incarnations of the Harbeth sound... So I guess M40.1, which I haven't auditioned yet, must be the end of the journey - and should be with such a high price!Thank you. That's very much how I see it.

I could not have designed the P3ESR ten years ago. Or even five years ago. Such a project needs time, patience and maturity. Ditto the M40.1.

BTW, if you think the M40.1 with its cabinets, crossovers, six drive units and all my accumulated knowledge poured into it is expensive - think again! Here (http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue47/acoustic_revive.htm).

EricW
05-01-2010, 12:40 AM
BTW, if you think the M40.1 with its cabinets, crossovers, six drive units and all my accumulated knowledge poured into it is expensive - think again! Here (http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue47/acoustic_revive.htm).

OMG (as the kids say). Well, if you've got the money ...

But you're right, it makes the pricetag for the M40.1 seem downright reasonable by comparison.

keithwwk
05-01-2010, 01:24 AM
Thank you. That's very much how I see it.

I could not have designed the P3ESR ten years ago. Or even five years ago. Such a project needs time, patience and maturity. Ditto the M40.1. [/URL].

Alan is totally agree with this.. hm...I senses the new project on shl5 and m30 are there. It is is easy to name m30 as m30.1....How abt SHL5? SHL5ES?

Btw, I just noticed the price of that "stand".....OMG!

Alexander
16-03-2010, 09:51 PM
the best argument (imho) for buying the M 30 /40 Series for the real enthusiastic music lover is to save much money, time , for seeking satisfaction in concert halls with bad acoustics , overpriced auditions, bad musicians, cold temperature outsides unnerving ticket buying.....you can hooked up a pair, bring them in your room, pay attention to them and every week a compliment to each Loudspeaker , and so they will loves you and you them and your relationship will be growth the next 20 years.

But be careful of your social life and your Familys support! You have to explain something about your new family members, and what they do with you, but your friends and your family will understand you after first introducing each other--;-) Thanks for building audio artworks to Harbethians

Double D
24-03-2010, 02:34 AM
Being a relatively new owner of a (very) slightly used pair of M30's (in cherry finish), I've got to say that I'm thrilled with the sheer musicality of them. The ability of these "simple boxes" to unravel the music in a manner that is wholely enjoyable is rather uncanny.
One thing I'd like to see, and perhaps someone can point me towards is some pictures of the optional wood finishes that are available for the M30 (Tiger ebony, Eucalyptus), I believe it's the Tiger Ebony on the main product page, but I'd love to see some higher rez pics of the other finishes.

STHLS5
24-03-2010, 07:50 AM
http://www.harbeth.co.uk/library/harbro-oct09/ . Please wait for the page to load. It took me 20 mins.

Double D
24-03-2010, 06:20 PM
Thanks for that ! loaded fast for me... and I suppose I should clarify something I wrote above, as upon re-reading it.. When I stated "simple boxes" I in no way meant to undermine the technology within. The development of the Radial driver was a big undertaking, and it certainly pushes forward the ability of the speakers.

What I meant by "simple boxes" is that , perceptually at least, the casual observer would dismiss the Harbeths as being too "vintage" in styling, and not utilizing alternative materials and shapes to accomplish the goal (I guess in Brit speak.. it's "missing the shiny bits" .. hehehe) but, the proof is in the pudding and the joy of listening to them speaks volumes to what's really going on inside.

KT88
25-03-2010, 01:33 AM
Hey, Double D

I, too, own M 30's and absolutely love them. Harbeth does a great job with the wood veneers and sadly, never really shows them off on their site. Here's a link to a picture of a single HL 5 in eucalyptus-my favorite Harbeth veneer

http://pic8.audiogon.com/i/c/f/1268452698.jpg

My 30's are in the rose walnut finish-interesting, but nothing fantastic. My Compact 7 Es-2's are in a fairly rare and in this case, spectacular maple finish. If I could ever figure out how to post pictures of my Harbeths here on this site, I'd get them up!

Cheers, enjoy the music!

leesl
26-06-2010, 08:35 AM
This thread specifically relates to the Monitor 30

Hi, Alan,
I understand that there is only Monitor 30 and SHL5 were fitted with RADIAL driver at this moment. May i know whether these 2 model will be upgrade to fitted with RADIAL 2 driver?

Have you experiment on the both driver fitted to the same cabinets in Monitor 30 and SHL5? I'm curious to know what are the different in between them.

Marcelo Gu
28-06-2010, 11:16 PM
I wanted to know some details about the Monitor 30 ProActive. Could you post a photo of the back-amplifer panel? Are they bi-amplifed or are they only powered (one amp and passive xover)? Is the amplifier similar to the one for the BBC LS-5/9 (BBC AM8-17)?

Thank you in advance,
Marcelo,
Harbeth fan, from Argentina.

HUG-1
29-06-2010, 09:13 AM
The M30 active is not in production at this time. Harbeth is concentrating on making passive speakers, without built-in amplification. These are much quicker to build and test, and give the user maximum flexibility. He can chose any amplifier he/she wants.

We do not know what the "BBC AM8-17" is so we cannot comment on that.

UPDATE. We have found information on the AM8-17. This seems to be a general-purpose bolt-on amplifier module, perhaps designed to be affixed to the rear panel surface or to sit on top of the speaker cabinet.

Alexander
23-08-2010, 06:14 PM
After a half year with my Harbeths M30, i could say, thanks. In every kind of music( even in DVD Surround Mixes), the Music, voices, tones was simply there in my room. no highs, no lows, no complicated positioning, i could use them like an every day product, just like...mmmh my car...i never think before start the car about technical, fuels consumption, i simply drive it. And now all Family Members use the Harbeth, my Children are sitting sometimes near in Front of them, no pain in ears, only a smile lighted up her face, the Harbeth are Family Members from now on, and i'm sure they will stay longer in my home than the kids.
rgds
Alex

P.C.
06-10-2010, 04:34 AM
Having just really enjoyed another six hour plus music session ( today's a weekend day for me) I just wanted to reaffirm , not that it was ever in doubt, how much I love my M30s! Both in their performance and looks. Thank you Alan and the Harbeth team!

Jason
28-11-2010, 08:12 AM
I have my new demonstration Harbeth Monitor 30 speakers in Maple, they have been playing for 4 days now and sounding wonderful.
I have them powered by the Pass Labs XA100.5 mono blocks matched with either the Quicksilver valve preamplifier or my own Parmenter valve preamplifier.
These are very special loudspeakers & very highly recommended to all music lovers.
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Parmenter-Sound/138776836166685

Janoak
28-02-2011, 08:18 PM
I wondered if anyone has used M30 speakers with Leben CS600 amplifiers? I am thinking of replacing my current speakers with M30's. My current speakers are System Audio Explorers. They are far too big and have too much bass for my new flat. M30's would seem about ideal. I am about to arrange a home demo. Hopefully they will give a better integrated sound and a smoother top end. It would be interesting to hear from anyone who has heard this combination.

Ian

garmtz
09-04-2011, 09:50 PM
Sorry for replying so late, but I have heard the combination and it is stunning. But do exchange the stock power tubes with EL34's...

Paul G Smith
14-04-2011, 10:20 AM
I think the AM8/17 was (usually) a Quad 50 which was built in a 303 style case but with only one power amp in, with the possibility of a 100V line output. I somehow don't think this could have been bolted to the back of an LSU cabinet :). have a look on the BBC anoraks site!
http://www.bbceng.info/Designs/RDCE/part_I/1to100.htm (page 13)




We do not know what the "BBC AM8-17" is so we cannot comment on that.

UPDATE. We have found information on the AM8-17. This seems to be a general-purpose bolt-on amplifier module, perhaps designed to be affixed to the rear panel surface or to sit on top of the speaker cabinet.

Alexander
15-04-2011, 10:27 PM
I 'am Harbeth M 30 Owner for a year, and they always until now, gave Life in our family the musical thrill. But today i must report the discovery of the DREAMTEAM.(an i was trying several combinations) After hearing 30 minutes with this combination, my mind was blowing away. If i were not a religious person, i would thinking to be in heaven. Power on, and you will leave the world and step in the fabulous world of music, which is overwhelming you.It's incredible, what a window in the music the M30 can be.
It's Art, and it's improving my quality of life.
Meridian G01
Merdian G56
Meridian G 6.02
Cable: Kimber 8 TC Jubilee Edition
Connect between CD an PRE-Power : Straight Wire Serenade

Sebastien
16-04-2011, 09:34 PM
The M30 is one member of the Harbeth family that I haven't heard yet. I'll be glad to hear it one day.

Nice to read that you find the greatest combination for you.

Sebastien

Alexander
17-04-2011, 11:15 PM
thanks sebastien , i only can highly recommend this, but certainly it depends on the personal taste, of each listener, but i can't imagine, that anybody is missing anything with this combi, if he is a Harbeth Lover
Alex

NelisB
14-07-2011, 04:25 PM
Hi all,

Is it ok to lay M30's on their side (on a stand)? I want to use them in my studio (kind of near/mid-field) but their height is difficult to use them next to my other system.

Thanks, Niels

hifi_dave
14-07-2011, 05:11 PM
They certainly won't come to any harm laying on their sides.

Paul G Smith
15-07-2011, 11:45 AM
They certainly won't come to any harm laying on their sides.

Certainly not! BBC Manchester studio5 has M30s mounted horizontally with the HF units innermost, on metal stands to bring them clear of the top of the mixing desk. Many famous bands have been broadcast from there.

red cross
15-07-2011, 09:12 PM
Is it normal for the M30s to "flap" and buzz when playing back sustained low frequency material in the 20-50Hz region? I work as a sound editor / dubbing mixer and this is the only issue I have when working with these speakers. Low frequency sfx such as "tunnel rumble" and stuff generated by subharmonic synthesizers can't be played back without significant "flapping". Strangely this was never an issue on my old B&W 602s. Otherwise, the speakers sound marvellous. If this problem is a general design issue and not (hopefully) an issue with my particular pair then I'll probably just look into getting a sub in there. Thanks in advance for any help with this.

Paul G Smith
16-07-2011, 02:06 PM
What's the power output of your amplifier, and is there an equaliser in line?

garmtz
16-07-2011, 05:00 PM
Is it normal for the M30s to "flap" and buzz when playing back sustained low frequency material in the 20-50Hz region? I work as a sound editor / dubbing mixer and this is the only issue I have when working with these speakers. Low frequency sfx such as "tunnel rumble" and stuff generated by subharmonic synthesizers can't be played back without significant "flapping". Strangely this was never an issue on my old B&W 602s. Otherwise, the speakers sound marvellous. If this problem is a general design issue and not (hopefully) an issue with my particular pair then I'll probably just look into getting a sub in there. Thanks in advance for any help with this.

Are you using them with the grilles ON? These can sometimes make noises with large cone excursions. Try removing them!

KT88
16-07-2011, 11:36 PM
Hello,red cross.

I agree with garmtz, take the grilles off, if you can. For whatever reason, they are very tightly fitted on the Monitor 30's, with the fabric touching the bass port. This is very likely the cause for the sounds you are hearing.

NelisB
17-07-2011, 05:35 PM
Thanks Paul!,

@ Hifi-Dave: I meant soundwise

red cross
18-07-2011, 09:58 AM
Thanks guys. I'll try to mangle a paper clip and get the grills off and see if that solves the problem. Doubt it's an output power issue with the amp, I'm monitoring at quite conservative levels (-20dBFS pink noise @ 79dBSPL C weighted).

TimVG
18-07-2011, 12:27 PM
It could be port noise; which is usually caused when playing tracks which contain a lot of information below the tuning frequency of the loudspeaker at higher volume levels. Too much air has to go to the port at once causing turbulence noise. Some companies use fancy ports to counter this phenomena, but in reality it's just physics and there is little that can be done. Some sort of high pass filter could be a solution.

hifi_dave
18-07-2011, 12:49 PM
@ Hifi-Dave: I meant soundwise

I know - I was being cryptic !!!

The full answer should have been - They won't come to any harm and will sound just fine. Just suck it and see !!!

skylan
18-07-2011, 05:17 PM
Hi Red Cross,

The Harbeth importer in your area has Grille Magnet pullers if you wish to give one a try.

Contact Jimmy Goh, Ph 65,63 362467 Perhaps borrow one as it would be safer to use than a wire clip.

Cheers,
Noel. (Skylan)

garmtz
18-07-2011, 08:10 PM
Don't use anything sharp! Just pinch the fabric between fingers on one of the corners and try to loosen the grille by pulling on the fabric with a fast tug.

chirhonix
18-07-2011, 09:49 PM
Hi,

if you don't have an importer, you can use any strong magnet (e.g. found in old hard disk or other neodym magnets) to pull the grilles off. But be careful. The magnets in hard disks are VERY strong.

Peter

NelisB
19-07-2011, 11:30 AM
I know - I was being cryptic !!!

The full answer should have been - They won't come to any harm and will sound just fine. Just suck it and see !!!

Thanks Dave!!

mbauer
22-07-2011, 01:52 AM
Hello All,

I am getting my brand new Harbeth Monitor 30s tomorrow. Anniversary edition in tiger ebony.

So far I am enjoying my demo M30s very much. Most relaxing sound in Hi Fi. Right now just have a cheap Marantz receiver but will eventually upgrade to Naim.


Martin Bauer

KT88
23-07-2011, 11:02 PM
Welcome to Planet Harbeth, Martin.

As a Monitor 30 owner myself, I can assure you that you will be continually amazed and delighted with the way these things just disappear and provide extraordinary doses of music.

Enjoy!

Bob LaBarca
State College, PA
USA

Jason
19-08-2011, 09:10 AM
I have to agree the Harbeth Monitor 30 are wonderfully voiced loudspeakers, I am listening to my pair while reading this thread.
I am using the AirTight ATM-2 80 watt valve amplifier matched with the AirTight ATC -2 valve preamplifier matched with the Harbeth Monitor 30.

hifi_dave
19-08-2011, 10:49 AM
Nice system.

Pity the Air Tight and Leben products are sooooo expensive in the UK. It's because they go through a 'Worldwide distributor', adding a further layer of markup.

Jason
19-08-2011, 09:48 PM
Hi Dave
Thanks for the positive feedback on my system.
I change between the Leben CS 600 Integrated & the Air Tight amplifiers for my audio demonstrations, both manufacturers amplifiers work incredibly well with the Harbeth loudspeaker range.

My Harbeth monitor 40.1 will be placed in this demonstration system soon and the Harbeth Monitor 30 will be going in to my smaller demonstration audio room Length 7.5 meters x Width 4.5 meter x Height 2.450 meters.

zindra
12-10-2011, 01:57 AM
Of course I understand this will void the warranty and should be done by someone skilled enough, but I wonder if it's possible to combine the two leads coming off the crossover to one set of binding posts on the back of the M30. This will eliminate the need for jumpers or biwiring. Has anyone tried this?

Labarum
12-10-2011, 08:23 PM
Of course I understand this will void the warranty and should be done by someone skilled enough, but I wonder if it's possible to combine the two leads coming off the crossover to one set of binding posts on the back of the M30. This will eliminate the need for jumpers or biwiring. Has anyone tried this?

And what will you gain? What's the point? The jumpers add nothing, and take nothing away from the sound.

{Moderator's comment: just you wait until you hear the story revealed today about a false warranty claim and sending spare parts. Woofer? No. Tweeter? No. Crossover? No. What then ..... non-Harbeth biwire link broken inside.}

zindra
13-10-2011, 02:40 AM
And what will you gain? What's the point? The jumpers add nothing, and take nothing away from the sound.

{Moderator's comment: just you wait until you hear the story revealed today about a false warranty claim and sending spare parts. Woofer? No. Tweeter? No. Crossover? No. What then ..... non-Harbeth biwire link broken inside.}

I started by saying that this modification, like any other, of course, would null the warranty. Whoever claims a false warranty claim is as false as his claim.
I don't agree that jumpers don't make a difference, nor that telephone guides make for great stands, or that electrical wire is good enough for speaker cable, and so on, but that's only my perception, and another story. The M30 is a great speaker, but If jumpers or biwiring are irrelevant, the whole concept of using two binding posts is flawed and shouldn't have been used to start with, I've read this already discussed elsewhere. It's not my intention to start an argument on that matter, I'd just like to know if the single binding post conversion can be done and how, and if someone has successfully done it.

hifi_dave
13-10-2011, 11:59 AM
I don't believe you can do that conversion internally, as IIRC, the crossover attaches to the four terminals and there are no flying leads to move.

So, relax and enjoy them as they are.

zindra
13-10-2011, 11:32 PM
Ok. That's all I wanted to know, thank you very much.

I really like the M30s, the only thing I miss from time to time is a bit more of foundation and size, more sense of real venue. Maybe because I come from full range big speakers. When I bought them I couldn't audition the SHL5, the dealer has them now and I'll give them a try to see if they perform better in that sense. I did audition the C7 at my home and there was something about the treble that didn't fit my preferences.

zindra
19-10-2011, 03:21 PM
I've had the Monitor 30 for a few months now, great speaker, great timbre, but as I said in a previous post, I am missing the authority and sense of scale that my previous full range speakers had.

I changed to (the smaller) M30 because the full range boxes were too big to live with (for my wife, specially). I don't know if it's the bass not going as deep. I listen mostly to classical and jazz, 95% acoustic instruments. Piano with the Monitor 30, for example, although very well presented, lacks the punch and authority I had before. Listening to Gilels' Beethoven on CD or Pollini on vinyl, the previous illusion of being there, sitting in the front row listening to a full size piano is not happening, specially when the lower keys are hit. Maybe those deep harmonics are needed to make the illusion and visceral impact.

To check the speakers range I just did a test with the Stereophile Test CD, surprisingly, bass went down to 31.5Hz (at 25kHz it became inaudible), more than specified. On the contrary, treble was cut at 12.5kHz (next track, 16kHz was inaudible), when it's supposed to go up to 20kHz. The rest of the system is the same I had with the previous speakers and I also performed the test with them.

When I got the M30 I couldn't audition the SHL5, I did test the C7 but I preferred the M30, the C7 had something in the upper mids/treble that was not as convincing to me. I now wonder if the SHL5, being a larger cabinet and having more bass, would be a better choice to get that sense of involvement and real scale of the music.

Sebastien
19-10-2011, 06:38 PM
Hi Zindra,

You are now missing the "sense of scale" and some of the highest frequencies of the range with your M30. As a SHL5 owner for one year and a half now, I can tell you that this speaker gives a real sense of scale. I couldn't ask for more. Plus, it has a supertweeter, which you might like, because it offers more high frequencies. But be careful, we all lost sensibility to hear high frequencies when we go older.

Have a good day,

Sébastien

{Moderator's comment: Yes as we age our HF range definitely contracts but we can still enjoy music perfectly. Alan commented recently that he doesn't believe he can hear much above about 12-14kHz (he's 54). Much better than the average person for his age. How old are you?}

Cyreg
19-10-2011, 06:45 PM
Hi, Zindra.
Have you made attempts to change some things and try optimize your setup to find another soundbalance? You're not only listening to the speakers but to your whole setup ! Just replacing the speakers may not be enough to your liking

If I replace my C7 by my P3 I have to use some other adjustments in setup to get the better of the P3, so...

garmtz
19-10-2011, 09:16 PM
I am using a Velodyne DD-10 subwoofer to augment my M30's and it is really a perfect match. It gives me just the extra bass, nothing more. I really cannot pinpoint the sub at all and the M30's have received loads of scale, punchy bassdrums, deep lows (down to 15 Hz) and a much better soundscape.

Don't skimp on the quality of the sub and have someone knowledgeable calibrate it to the system and room. The DD-10 is set at 50 Hz crossover, 24 dB/octave and only some minor eq at I think 35 or so Hz and a minor boost at 15 Hz.

zindra
20-10-2011, 12:41 AM
Hi Zindra,

{Moderator's comment: Yes as we age our HF range definitely contracts but we can still enjoy music perfectly. Alan commented recently that he doesn't believe he can hear much above about 12-14kHz (he's 54). Much better than the average person for his age. How old are you?}

I am 43, I am certainly losing sight, but my ears still seem fine! I know I can hear it because I did the same test with the previous full range speakers.

zindra
20-10-2011, 12:53 AM
What optimization would you suggest...? Except for positioning, which I've already fiddled around, even lowering the speakers to reinforce bass, I don't want to start replacing components and such. The system is fine. I think I am going to try to audition the SHL5 when I have the chance, maybe try to work out a trade in deal from the dealer if I finally prefer them to the M30.

Regarding the addition of a sub, I appreciate the suggestion but It's an approach I don't consider, I downsized the boxes to keep it simple, I'd rather try a bigger box like the SLH5 than add a sub. My goal is not only better bass, but better scale and sense of venue. Best.

P.C.
21-10-2011, 07:49 AM
Hello Zindra, did you see the pic I posted on the M30 on the cradle stand you where interested in?

I also have the M30s and listen predominately to classical music with a strong bias on the Piano. I've found that I've gotten the best authority. bass impact and sense of scale that you've mention by positioning my M30s in the middle of the room ( I pull them into this position for critical listening) The theory is explained here:
http://www.immediasound.com/Speaker%20set-up%202009.pdf it might be worth a try?.

As to the SHL5's, Like you I never got the chance to compare them at my dealer (who much preferred the M30s) but did listened to the C7s. I've been told by a number of dealers that even though the SH5s have more bass I could quite possible (after having living with the M30s for some 5 years now) find myself missing the unique qualities that the M30's have if I changed them (which I have no plan in doing!).

But obviously if you have the opportunity to listen to both that would be the ideal option.

zindra
21-10-2011, 11:09 AM
[QUOTE=P.C.;16057]Hello Zindra, did you see the pic I posted on the M30 on the cradle stand you where interested in?

Yes, I did see the pic, thank you. I contacted Pear Audio but they don't make it anymore. I posted a reply before to this before but I probably did something wrong and it doesn't show. Opposite of you, the dealer loved SHL5 but didn't have it in store, so I compared C7 and M30 and got the M30 which really has it's magic going on, and some shortcomings in my room.

Maybe this is the key: "in my room". I may love the SHL5 at the dealer's dedicated and treated room and then like them less than the M30 in my place. It's a never ending search and it's fun, only pitty is the funds (in my case) are so limited!

Diminish
23-10-2011, 01:12 AM
Right Ported M-30???

On the Products Page of the Official Harbeth website, the M-30 Studio shown grouped together with the others has it's port on the right side. Of course, if you click on it, the one shown there is ported on the left the same as the Domestic and any other M-30 I've ever seen. I've always wondered why the port arrangement was not symmetrical. I asked my dealer and he said "because it doesn't have to be, and its easier to make all the baffles the same". OK, fine, I mean there isn't anything I can point to that is problematic about it. If your speakers are set up equidistant from each other (as they should be); it does put the discharged air (and I'm guessing some low frequency sound) from the right speaker closer to one ear than the other port, but I don't hear it as a coloration. Now, I see this right ported M-30, and it makes me wonder...

bgiliberti
10-11-2011, 11:14 PM
[QUOTE=P.C.;16057]Hello Zindra, did you see the pic I posted on the M30 on the cradle stand you where interested in?

Yes, I did see the pic, thank you. I contacted Pear Audio but they don't make it anymore. I posted a reply before to this before but I probably did something wrong and it doesn't show. Opposite of you, the dealer loved SHL5 but didn't have it in store, so I compared C7 and M30 and got the M30 which really has it's magic going on, and some shortcomings in my room.

Maybe this is the key: "in my room". I may love the SHL5 at the dealer's dedicated and treated room and then like them less than the M30 in my place. It's a never ending search and it's fun, only pitty is the funds (in my case) are so limited!One speaker will always be better than another in some way. I also chose the M30 over the Compact 7 (did not hear SHL5), even though the Compact 7 sounded more impressive at first listen. There is something special about the M30, the clarity, the total lack of distortion, and the solidity that I had never heard in any speaker before. It's not for everybody, and it makes demands on the listener (pay attention!), but I'm glad I chose it for my needs, which is too look into the music, almost as if it's being made before my eyes and ears.

STHLS5
11-11-2011, 03:34 PM
[QUOTE=Diminish;16098]Right Ported M-30???

On the Products Page of the Official Harbeth website, the M-30 Studio shown grouped together with the others has it's port on the right side. Of course, if you click on it, the one shown there is ported on the left the same as the Domestic and any other M-30 I've ever seen. .....QUOTE]

Hi Diminish,

I asked a similar question about three years ago . Andy of Harbeth(UK) said, and I quote "

All Super HL5's have the port on the right side and always have done. The pair matching on all our speaker is with the veneer and also the drive units. The picture on the Harbeth website has been reversed to make the speaker face towards the writing." ....(End of Quote).

I believe the port's role is to extend the low bass which is coincidently omni directional. So I believe that shouldnt make a difference to us whether it is for SHL5 or M30. IMO.

ST

{Moderator's comment: also bear in mind that during photography/DTP images can easily be flipped left-right. The fact is, that at low frequencies where the wavlength is many mtrs. the position of the port on the front, side, top, back will make no practical difference in output. At LF is is almost or actually impossible to measure the port's output in isolation to the woofer: the two blened seamlessly.}

Paul G Smith
17-11-2011, 09:41 PM
Certainly not! BBC Manchester studio5 has M30s mounted horizontally with the HF units innermost, on metal stands to bring them clear of the top of the mixing desk. Many famous bands have been broadcast from there.
Here's a pic of David Bowie in the studio when he played on the Mark Radcliffe show. The M30 in foreground is the left side of the main monitor pair in this studio's control room (direct to transmitter). The picture was taken by one of my colleagues.

The live band performs in the same studio space as the DJ, so soundchecks are sometimes made during the programme! The BBC in Manchester has recently closed this building to move to their new northern headquarters in Media City, Salford.

RIP Studio 5.

micron
18-11-2011, 12:53 PM
Hi Paul
In your picture I see The Monitor 30 placed horizontally. I read about people, who placed the Harbeths with the tweeters on down side (audiogon) or even with the Harbeth logos on interior corners (that was at the one exhibition).

So, use somebody, one of this speakers positions or is that Monitor 30 designed to be placed also in horizontal position?

Cheers

Paul G Smith
21-11-2011, 11:23 PM
Hi Paul
In your picture I see The Monitor 30 placed horizontally. I read about people, who placed the Harbeths with the tweeters on down side (audiogon) or even with the Harbeth logos on interior corners (that was at the one exhibition).

So, use somebody, one of this speakers positions or is that Monitor 30 designed to be placed also in horizontal position?

Cheers
This studio is quite often packed with musicians and it is quite often difficult to see who is replying to the presenter's questions, especially as the performers are hidden behind the wall to the right of the window. The picture was taken from the extreme left of the control room.
The reason the M30s are placed horizontally is simply to be able to have as clear as possible a view of the extremities of the studio!
The fact that they sound just as good on their sides is very important to the sound mixer!
It's as well to remember that the mixing position in a studio is always on the axis of the loudspeakers, and I can vouch for the stereo image in studio 5 to be quite good!

zindra
15-02-2012, 07:50 PM
I've read the posts about matching a subwoofer with the M30. The only recommendations I've found are the Quad Gradient sw-63, and the Velodyne DD10 (too expensive for me).

Does anyone know of a subwoofer that can do a good job without a steep price tag? I've found some from B&W, Polk audio, etc, but I have never used a subwoofer before and I am not sure where to start and what to to look for. Are all subwoofers powered or are there passive also? My amp is 2 channel stereo, where do I connect the subwoofer, to the speakers posts on the amp?

Thank you.

STHLS5
16-02-2012, 05:09 AM
..

I use Rythmik Audio F12SE with my SHL5. Previously, I tried Boston Acoustics with disastrous results. Did try Velodyn, Sunfire, and Rel T3 but Ryhtmik is value for money and no other subwoofer give you as much control like the Ryhtmik. Never tried passive subwoofers except for the Rockford Punch subwoofer that I use in my car.

I connect them directly from the Preamplifier unbalanced output. If you preamplifier does not have two pairs of output then you can use a Y cable. You can also connect after your Amplifier using the speakers wires. Rel and Rythmik’s manuals explain in detail of the different connecting methods.

Please be forewarned that the use of Subwoofers may muddy your sound and it is almost impossible to say that you can improve the original sound of SHL5 with the addition of a Subwoofer. I have done room measurement using REW and XTZ Room Analyzers but it seems in reality these measurements do not really work in small rooms correctly.

The best results that I achieved was by tuning the Subwoofer phase, volume and crossover point using my ears after getting the general setting based on calculations as given by the Subwoofer designer and the Room Analyzers software. For reasons unknown, the best phase setting I use now is about 150 degrees. The calculated value supposed to be about 40 degrees. My hearing maybe malfunctioning.

Now, how much did the sound improve with the addition of a Subwoofer? Initially, it was fun. It shook every part of my room but when the euphoria died down and when I strive to get the most accurate representation of the recorded sound I realize my subwoofer is practically doing nothing. Only on rare occasions I do hear the subwoofer working for some electronically induced deep bass. Other than that, it is just a piece of ornament in my music room.

However, all is not lost because I do push the volume of the subwoofer when some bass crazed visitors drop by. For some the constant bass beats seemed to bring them some enjoyment. I too enjoy that after downing half a gallon of beer. :)

ST

Paul Moraw
18-02-2012, 06:11 AM
Hello Zindra,

I use a MJ Acoustics ref150mk2 subwoofer with my m30's with very good results, I also had used JLaudio f110 with mixed results. If I had to back to life without a sub it would be difficult. I find that subs mate pretty well with m30's if crossover on the sub is set pretty low, usually less than 50hz. I have my sub connected to the speaker terminals on my LFD amp, works really well. For rock, electronic, movies I just turn the volume of the subwoofer up a bit to get that bit more OOMPH in the lowest frequencies, when listening to acoustic, piano, vocal etc I turn the subwoofer right down to the point where it only act as a "support" for the lowest frequencies where the m30's dont reach.
I have to agree with STHS5 regarding mating a subwoofer with the SHL5's, the bass is so good on those speakers one never really feel like a sub is needed at all.
I always felt like the sub took some magic away from the SHL5, but I find that a good sub can have the opposite effect with the m30's making them sound amazing.

hifi_dave
18-02-2012, 11:50 AM
I'm probably alone in believing that sub-woofers rarely, if ever, improve the sound. Unless you pay a huge amount for a really good sub-woof, they sound fat and sluggish, adding nothing except waffle to music. Fine for films etc but they rarely keep up with the music and you really do need two, which come in at very low frequencies, to avoid image shift. IMO

As for using a sub-woof to the SHL5 - I really can't understand this as these speakers have more than ample bass for music. After all, many sub-woofs only have an 8 inch driver when a pair of SHL5 have two.

Pluto
18-02-2012, 01:57 PM
I'm probably alone in believing that sub-woofers rarely, if ever, improve the sound Possibly not...most folks I know who have added sub-woofs to an otherwise "normal" 2 channel array tune them too high in frequency & too loud!

It's easy to forget that the ".1" is a low frequency effects track and a sub-woof really ought not respond to other signals. Most commercially released music does not contain sufficient loud, low bass to require a sub-woof and those people who insist on using one are, almost by definition, crossing over to them at too high a frequency because most records do not have content of the kind that ought to require one!

A wise old owl of my acquaintance who listens to a lot of BBC Radio 3 (classical, acoustic, drama, jazz) and has a sub, reckons that the sub produces useful output about once a week.