Best Quad Pre/Power For HL monitors

[bluegrass]

Im a violininst/composer with a recording studio. I have a pair of Harbeth HL monitor MKlll which i absolutely love. I also use esl 57 which are different, but great too. I am going to be getting some HL 5s soon for another room. I currently use a quad 34 pre into a Leak stereo 20, but the Leak is much too bright for my ear, and i keep leaving the valves on. I want to get a quad amp, either a 303, 405 , 306 or 606 to power this lot. Indeed i need two amp systems for two different rooms. I dont have much time to try to find and demo these and dont enjoy the HIFI shop experience, i just cant relate to how they generally talk about or understand music, and the gear generally leaves me cold. I want a warmth in the sound that i try to get when playing live, and quad amps i tried years ago did this. What quad amp would suit these speakers best.
Thanks for any help.

[A.S.]

We've covered the QUAD amps here before. The weakest component is the preamp (Q34) which clips on CD inputs when volume control is above about 3 o/clock.

All those amps work extremely well but I urge you to have them serviced as they are all long out of production and original capacitors will be long past their best. The best overall value is the 405 Mk2 available for almost nothing.

[bluegrass]

Hi,
Thanks for your reply, appreciate it. As a final question, is there a better quad alternative to the 34 pre, as i use cd often especially when checking my own recording masters.

[A.S.]

The tilt controls on the Q34 are extremely well conceived and of much practical benefit to get the best overall sound from real loudspeakers in real rooms. If Harbeth were ever to make an amplifier it would be fitted with a bypassable tilt control.

From some experience with preamps, I gave up with them a year or two ago and bought a very inexpensive passive volume control, which I drive directly into the power amp. I could have made one for about GBP 20 but this wasn't much more expensive and was in a neat case. Of course, it is suitable for 'line level' sources only not gramophone pickup cartridge (which needs a preamp) but if you only use CD or similar that's not an issue.

[bluegrass]

Well, you are on the same wave length here as myself. I was just thinking that might make more sense. I do use vinyl a lot for old discontinued recordings, but have a separate phono stage that i can use in a passive pre. I think i now know the route i need to take.
Thanks

[george]

I have been using the Quad 99 preamp into Quad 909 amplifier to drive my Monitor 30 speakers.
In my view this is an excellent combination.
The tilt control on the 99 preamp is very useful to adjust for skewed tonal balance on some recordings.
The bass lift control is especially useful when listening at low volumes (like a loudness control on vintage gear).
With this set-up I can listen for hours without aural fatigue: just pure musical enjoyment.
Thank you Quad and Harbeth!

[bluegrass]

Hi,
Thanks for all the information. I'm now looking for a reasonable passive pre amp to go with my recently aquired Quad 405-mk 2 (currently being serviced by Quad). I notice Alan got his for a very reasonable cost. If you read this Alan, or if anyone else knows of any, where can i find one. I'm finding lots of passives on the internet but for much more money than Alan found one for.
Many Thanks, Ivor

[denjo]

Hi,
Thanks for all the information. I'm now looking for a reasonable passive pre amp to go with my recently aquired Quad 405-mk 2 (currently being serviced by Quad). I notice Alan got his for a very reasonable cost. If you read this Alan, or if anyone else knows of any, where can i find one. I'm finding lots of passives on the internet but for much more money than Alan found one for.
Many Thanks, Ivor

Hi bluegrass

Try and shoot John Chapman of Bent Audio an email ( www.bentaudio.com ).

I have one of his TVC and its very neutral sounding. You can get him to customise something that might suit your needs. Nice chap, replies promptly.

Good luck!

Best Regards
Dennis

[A.S.]

To be honest, I think that my passive was probably about GBP100. I'm sure that there are many passive solutions ranging from the sublime to the ridiculous. Your dealer will be able to steer you in the right direction - that's his job. All I wanted was a quick and cheerful solution.

One thing to watch out for though - my passive preamp has balanced outputs, converted to single ended when a mono output jack plug is inserted into the balanced-jack socket. This balanced-to-unbalanced arrangement has proved a little unreliable and if offered the choice, assuming that your power amp is unbalanced (the 303/405/606 are), you may well prefer the simplicity of a completely unbalanced from input through to output passive preamp.

Again, passive preamps are not for everyone: they offer no flexibility, no phono input, no tone controls, and probably no source switching. They are useful for identifying weakness in active preamplifiers because, logically, without circuitry the are what Quad's founder called 'a straight wire with gain' minus the gain! Also remember that many CD players produce a really huge voltage output (typically 2Vrms, 6V peak) or even more, so some means of throttling the CD signal down to an amplifier-friendly input voltage in essential. The input sensitivity of the Quad power amps is typically 0.5V for full output, so from the example above, you will have to throw away 75% (2v - 0.5v) of the CD player's output signal in your (passive) preamp and even then will be hammering your speakers.

I'm sure that Quad will do a great job servicing your 405-2. There's not much to go wrong other than ageing (PSU) capacitors and the circuit (unlike the 303) has no presets that need periodic checking. It's entirely self calibrating. The sonic performance is of course a matter of opinion and taste but functionally, it will work perfectly with all and every Harbeth so it's an excellent and inexpensive yardstick amplifier. If a 303 crosses your path do consider it: again back to Quad for a check (much more drift with age on the 303). It is a better laboratory amp than the 405 for purely measurements because the load variation seems to have no influence at all on the output frequency response and unusually it has a regulated PSU which the 405 and 606 don't have. Acoustic performance is again a very personal thing: I would expect the 405 to outperform it..

[bluegrass]

Thanks for the input Alan.

Its interesting what you say about Quad power amps and the 303 in particular. I visited my parents over the last few days and was rooting around in my old room. I came across an old Quad 303 that i thought had been disposed of years ago. Its funny how these things transpire. Quad are currently servicing both that and my 'new' 405-2. I will report back as to which amp i like better, if in fact i have a preference, when i get them back in a couple of weeks. (I was very impressed with the Quad service dept, and the relative cheapness of the servicing. )

I came across many Quad amp upgrade boards/kits on the web when i looked for a 405-2 to buy, , and people speak highly of the sound improvements, but i decided that i dont want to spend that much money, at least not at the moment, and secondly i want to experience how the quads were originally designed to sound.

As for passive pre amps, i will take on board what you say about the balanced/unbalanced issue, and try and find a product that matches.

Regards, Ivor

[A.S.]

...(I was very impressed with the Quad service dept, and the relative cheapness of the servicing. )IvorConsider that the 405 and certainly 303 have been out of production for ..... fifteen, twenty or more years and their manufacturer cares sufficiently that they'll restore them inexpensively.... what a remarkable tribute. Quad's circuit diagrams are freely available and if you or a friend have basic tools you can repair them yourself.

I have mentioned over the years when people ask me about choosing this amp or that, that they should spend a little time and effort snooping around the brand to see what the after-care is really like. What matters to me more than the absolute difference (real or imaginary) between amp A and B is who will take care of it in its old age. Would you buy a new car if there wasn't an authorised service agent? Before you bought would you visit the service dept. to get a feel for how they would treat you? I would. When I read glowing tributes to amplifiers (here and elsewhere) I do ask myself who will take responsibility for it when it breaks-down, and at what cost and inconvenience to you. I vividly recall overhearing a somewhat larger than life UK audiophile manufacturer boasting at a trade-show that he had deliberately used non-standard case-screws to prevent access to effect repairs, which would have to be done at the factory at considerable cost. He was proud that he had an ongoing revenue stream from his customers - I thought it disgraceful.

One advantage of the Quad designs is that they use simple, readily available industrial parts and they are modular. There are no audiophile parts used. That's a very good thing because it guarantees spares will be available fifty years from now.

Regarding sonic comparison, I will return to this subject shortly when I conclude my colour-comparison thread. But I'd certainly be interested in your opinions.

[hifi_dave]

You're 100% correct Alan.

As a dealer I take several very important points into consideration when deciding to take on a product range. Number one is that it must sound good, it needs to be reliable, come from a reputable manufacturer who services at sensible prices, offer value for money, have good resale value and I prefer products which are not continually 'upgraded'.

I'm not worried about dealer price structures or if a product is 'flavour of the month' in the mags. I just want good, honest products and that's the reason my product range is very small.

[A.S.]

I think that as a specialist audio dealer you probably have a far better insight into what lies beneath the glitz and glamour of the glossy brochures. If only consumers would needle their dealers to give a more comprehensive, frank 'all-in' opinion of a brand and its products many would disappear before they sink clutching the consumers hard-won money. But all brands appear equal in print. Not to D&B though.

My observation is that the media, with a few exceptions, do not understand the importance of getting out into the field to visit manufacturers - not at trade shows where everything is shiny and bright but back at their factories or workshops. Then they could start to really question how much oxygen of publicity they should give to a brand which is, in reality, operating on a financial knife edge in grubby premises in a backstreet but with a fleet of extremely expensive cars outside which their consumer is paying for.

That reminds me of my own perception about cars. Some ten years ago, having owned some very fine British and German cars I got sick and tired of GBP1000 service bills and crippling depreciation. I weaned myself off them and bought a used, large German-made GM mass produced car with no 'image'. The most satisfying thing for me as a value-conscious consumer is that because it doesn't have all the electronic gadgets of the later (two) generations, my local corner-garage mechanic can repair and service her at very low cost.

My car just like my amp does the job and is easy and cheap to maintain: perfect! With amplifiers generally if they are simple, use 'pattern parts' then they can be kept going forever by the amplifier equivalent of the corner-garage mechanic.

[DSRANCE]

Just a quickie regarding preamps.

If the 99 preamp is too expensive, look out for a 77 preamp. It always sounded very sweet to me, had more of "everything" compared to the previous Quad preamps and for those of us with record collections, I'd also rate the built-in phono stage too.

The 77 series is very cheap at the moment, unfairly so in my opinion and mainly because of the mis-judged two-way remote commander, which isn't necessary, although it's handy...

I've used a 405-2 with the HL5's I had with absolutely no problem at all, as the HL5 had an easy load. There are a number of parties who can service and restore them and all I'd add is that the original supply capacitors (as manufactured) only seem to last for ten to eleven years before they start to bulge and/or leak - at least, the two amps I owned did this at this age.... Modern up-rated capacitors (not at all expensive compared to standard ones) may last rather longer..

Finally, the Quad 77 integrated amp is an absolute bargain these days, in my opinion.......

[honmanm]

For the 303, the 3rd party PSU regulator is well worth while if the amp will be used with speakers that need current (low impedance and/or low sensitivity). Most of the characteristic "pretty" 303 colouration also disappears, BTW.

A friend has lent me a pair of HL-P3s while I'm fixing my usual speakers (bumped over by 3 year old!) and the upgraded 303 does pretty well with them - though it seems a bit lacking in headroom.
Should be fine with newer & more efficient Harbeths.

The 303 has an uncanny ability to make vocals intelligible and as that is also a Harbeth virtue the combination has its own kind of subdued and unpretentious magic.

I'd be very interested to know how the 303 and 405-2 compare as I also have one of the latter - unserviced and on a different continent!

Mark

[A.S.]

There is no doubt that the P3ESR (and indeed all Harbeths) will work well with the Quad 303, or later 405 or 606. I speak from personal experience.

However, just a few days ago I 'acquired' a Canadian amplifier of good repute and decided to give it a quick measurement (no time to audition it) to see how flat it measured. I had to hand both a 303 and two 405s and it took just a few minutes once set-up to measure them all. To my considerable surprise, one of the 405s seems to have developed a fault on one channel where the frequency response has peaks and dips of several dBs - surely audible. The other 405 is virtually the same as the Canadian amp, which appears to be remarkably flat when driving a real-world speaker rather than an 8 ohm theorectical resistive load.

The 405 is modular - easy to just send one amp card back to Quad for service/exchange.

Alan in Hong Kong

[ryder]

The best overall value is the 405 Mk2 available for almost nothing.

Is ?180 considered available for nothing? There is one for sale and don't know whether I should grab it.

[ryder]

Forget about it. Just checked with seller and was informed the unit has the infamous buzzing sound from the transformer at close range, a few scratches on the exterior and a loose RCA socket connection that needs resoldering.

[A.S.]

QUAD UK will be able to replace the transformer and repair the socket (I'm sure) but that will probably cost about ?100 incl. full service. So ?180 really is too much.

I thought that there are lots of these 405 Mk2s around in good working condition for about that money?

[hifi_dave]

They regularly crop up on E-Bay as do 303's and others. That is the place to look and also guage the prices.

[ryder]

Yes, $180 plus cost of repair, service and replacement of capacitors may eventually bring the value of the unit up to $300 or more. Certainly not worth it for a piece of gear that is already very old and obsolete, not to mention the vibration and humming of the transformer may not be be able to be addressed successfully by an experienced skilled technician. Furthermore there is no Quad support here(nearest dealer is across the border some 500km away). In the UK it may a different story altogether.

hifi_dave, a bit out of topic. Have your store received the new Rega Osiris amp? This thing costs almost 4X more than the Elicit retailing at ?5,998. How does it sound like compared to the Elicit? Rega is really going all out with the launching of all these high-end units which include the Isis CDP with the same retail price. Just makes me wonder about the usual tagline of "affordable and good value" hifi by Rega throughout all these years with their budget gears. Maybe the introduction of the Osiris and Isis is specifically targetting the niche market that may appeal to potential buyers with deep pockets.

[hifi_dave]

Yes, $180 plus cost of repair, service and replacement of capacitors may eventually bring the value of the unit up to $300 or more. Certainly not worth it for a piece of gear that is already very old and obsolete, not to mention the vibration and humming of the transformer may not be be able to be addressed successfully by an experienced skilled technician. Furthermore there is no Quad support here(nearest dealer is across the border some 500km away). In the UK it may a different story altogether.

hifi_dave, a bit out of topic. Have your store received the new Rega Osiris amp? This thing costs almost 4X more than the Elicit retailing at ?5,998. How does it sound like compared to the Elicit? Rega is really going all out with the launching of all these high-end units which include the Isis CDP with the same retail price. Just makes me wonder about the usual tagline of "affordable and good value" hifi by Rega throughout all these years with their budget gears. Maybe the introduction of the Osiris and Isis is specifically targetting the niche market that may appeal to potential buyers with deep pockets.

Obviously, Rega are now attempting to appeal to those with a bit more disposable income and fortunately there are some still around. Why shouldn't Rega go after this market ? They have been in the business since 1973 and know more about the subject than most other companies. If a new company started up with a 6 grand amp and CD player, no one would even query it, the products would just be taken on their merits. Rega are a very successful and popular company so they are not likely to disappear anytime soon and their backup service is great if needed. I have no problem buying these products from Rega.

I have the Isis now and the Osiris amp is on order, hopefully it will be here sometime next week and I can confirm that these products sound wonderful with Harbeth.

As to whether the amp is better than the Elicit, I don't think there is any question here - it is a superb amp by any standards and a huge jump up from the Elicit, as you would expect given the price differential. Both the Isis and Osiris have a solid ease and effortlessness which makes most amps sound strained in comparison. You just relax and smile with these products.

I've been selling 'high end' gear since the mid 70's and I can say that the Rega Isis and Osiris are right up there with the very best, so in that respect, I would class them as good value but obviously not for everybody.

[ryder]

Thanks for the response hifi_dave. My dealer here has received the Isis CDP about 3 months ago specially air-couriered from the UK for the hifi show over here. According to them the Isis is an improvement over the Saturn, a substantial one for that matter. I would be curious to know how the Osiris would stack up against the Elicit though. Given the huge price differential the Osiris really needs to live up to its expectations. It would be interesting if the Osiris amp deviates from the house sound of Rega since all other lower models in the Rega family share an almost similar resemblance in sonic signature.

[hifi_dave]

The Elicit is a great amp and for the money is one of the best IMO but it is nothing like the Osiris.

The Osiris is big and solid and has great presence. It is extremely easy going, sweet and relaxing to listen through with tangible imagery and airy sound staging. As a comparison with Krell, Rowland and mark Levinson integrated amps I used to stock, the Osiris is a much better amp, effortless and communicative, transparent and three dimensional. It is a seriously good amp, not just a pretty box.

[opus111]

I live in Germany where we have Quad-Musikwiedergabe. They do an excellent job in servicing old Quad gear. I just bought a 44 - 306 combination and - to be honest - this set outperforms EVERYTHING I have unsed with my M30.
I have alreardy used McIntosh, Sugden, Musical Fidelity and Marantz. The Quad DO have a very natural and warm sound.
I think that I will do the following: Buy another set of Quads, get them serviced at Quad-Musikwiedergabe and then buy a P3!

[Chris_S]

Alan,

Could you comment further on your earlier comment in this thread that "The weakest component is the preamp (Q34) which clips on CD inputs when volume control is above about 3 o/clock." I have interpreted this statement as a fact that essentially says that "all CD players will clip on the 34 when the volume control is above about 3 o/clock" with no other conditions. I may be reading this way too broadly so I would like to understand either why it is always true or under what conditions it would be true. (And also whether this is a 34 only problem or whether it also affects the 44.)

Context: I have a Q34 and have purchased at 405-2. They are being serviced, and I mentioned the issue of clipping on the CD input to the person doing the work (authorized Quad repair tech but not Quad themselves as I am in the US), but he wasn't sure what I was talking about. This may be because I don't understand myself. Warning: I have no background in electronics so what follows may reflect significant misunderstanding and error. I would, however, like to understand this issue.

I am using a CD player with rated "typical" output of 2V. The input sensitivity of the 34 is 300mv. I can't read make out the maximum input from the pdfs on the web it looks like it's either 2 or 20. These are similar to the values for modern Quads - the CDP-2 lists a maximum output of 2.6V, and it's not clear what the default CD sensitivity is for the 99, but the choices are 100mv, 300mv, and 775mv. If the CD output is overloading the input and causing clipping there, I do not understand how this is related to the volume control. The volume comment suggests something about the output of the 34 or the input sensitivity of the power amp. This has led me to wonder whether I read your statement too broadly or not.

Thanks very much for your insights.

Chris

{Moderators comment on behalf of Alan: Can't comment on Q44, but suspect circuit is very similar. It's really simple .... shove a signal generator (or test CD sine wave at full dB level) into the Q34, and above about 3 o/c you'll hear severe distortion. So once the post volume control stage is saturated, distortion is inevitable. Solution? Drop the Cd signal going into the 34. Try it yourself.}

[honmanm]

(working from 20-year old memory) If you have a 44, use one of the tape inputs for CD... the tape adapter board has switches that allow you to adjust the sensitivity. Also useful for the 33.

[A.S.]

The Quad power amp (from memory) has an input sensitivity for max. output of 0.5V (500mV). Logically, Quad designed the matching 34 preamp to deliver that 0.5V with (presumably) the volume control fully up on the preamp. In the days when the 34 was designed the CD was a novelty and typical sources were cassette, radio and pickup all of which had signals lower than 0.5V. So the 34 preamplifier was designed to boost those signals so that the power amp could be driven at 0.5V and produce 100W or so of output.

Now feed a big 2V or more signal from a 'hot' source like a CD player running at full level into the Q34 preamp and the (input stage?) of the 34 will try and amplify that upwards prior to the volume control. Ergo, the input stage doesn't have enough voltage swing in its +/- 15V psu to amplify. Remember - 2V rms is a peak to peak swing of 5.6V and if the power rail is +/- 15V it's pretty obvious that if the hot source is amplified by about 3 times, clipping will occur.

That's the sum total of my knowledge. Solution? Use the Quad matching CD player (very nice sound, same styling) or fit a pair of in-line attenuators between standard CD player and Q34: a 10-20dB cut would be idea. I've tried both methods myself. I think a CD player with more than 2.0Vrms for 0dB FFFFFFF output is just asking for amplifier clipping, but I'm sure it sounds 'fuller', 'more dynamic' or similar simply due to the ridiculously high signal level. You could actually light a LED from the CD output ... far too much signal.

[A.S.]

CORRECTION!!!

I am not now sure if the Quad 66 matching CD player is of a low-output type specifically to match the Q34's high input gain. I don't think so. If I recall correctly, the 66 also clips the Q34 at about 3 o/clock. But when I think this through more carefully, without setting up to make a bench-test of the 34 + 306 (both of which are available here) I can't say for certain where the clipping occurs. It could be that the power amp input is overloading from such a huge signal from the Q34 at high volume settings regardless of which input is selected. Either way, the CD signal really should be attenuated, and if the attenuation is between the CD player and the Q34 input, then regardless of whether the clipping occurs in the Q34 or the Q306 (both good designs) the problem is removed.

Recommendations then:


Use a CD player with its own volume control, either a physical control on the player itself or a remote volume and turn down the output to about 2/3 or 1/2 when listening, and turn up the Q34 volume to suit



Use an in-line attenuator shop-bought (http://www.rothwellaudioproducts.co.uk/html/attenuators.html) or home made (cost small but rather fiddly to solder)

Here is some more background (http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/0803/rothwell.htm). In-line attenuators are nothing more than one or two (literally) resistors per channel soldered carefully into a phono plug/socket.

[Chris_S]

Alan and honmanm,

Thanks for the comments. Alan's second response really gets at my underlying question. I can accept that the (a?) solution is to reduce the output of the CD player so in one sense that is the end of the issue. However, I am curious as to where - along the path from the output of the CD player through to the output of the power amp - that the overload takes place. I don't know that knowing the answer would lead to a better solution, but I am curious nonetheless.

Part of the reason I asked the question in the first place is that I have not had an issue with clipping when using the 34 with the volume as high as 5 or 6 o/clock. However, I was using the 34 with an amp that has an input sensitivity of 1.5V (as well as different speakers, cd player, room, etc compared to Alan). Thus, I wondered whether there is an issue with the CD input per se or whether it's something else. As it turns out, I have a 44 on the way so I will be able to experiment with different preamp output levels as well as using the tape inputs with the adjustable input sensitivity as suggested by honmanm.

If I find out anything from experimenting with the 44 that might prove useful, I will post back.

Best,

-chris

[Sebastien]

Hi everyone,

Is there any folks out there looking to sell a Quad 405-2 or a 606?

I am interested.

Sebastien

[Sebastien]

I borrowed this week-end at my local hi-fi store a Quad 405-2 with a Quad 34 to try with my SHL5. I'm really surprised by the result, what a great match! I love the sound.

They are selling the 405-2 at 499$ CAN and the 34 at 399$ CAN. Those unit have been inspected at the store and they are in superb condition. On the other side, someone else in Montreal sell on classified a Quad 405 with a Quad 44 for 725$ CAN. He stated them as in excellent condition.

What do you guys think of those prices and what will be your choice? I'm a bit puzzled...

Sebastien

P.s.: CAN and US currency are almost the same.

[honmanm]

With older Quads the first question would be how recently they have been serviced. You can service 'em yourself if you are handy with a soldering iron, however the best value is to buy an amp that has had a recent service by Quad themselves.

There is apparently a difference in sound quality between 405 and 405-2. Also, the 405-2 and 44 (maybe 34 too... but I don't think so) were manufactured in different colours. The early ones are brownish, the later ones grey.

See Alan's notes above regarding problems with CD input level on the 34 - this is an important limitation with that preamp. The 44 has a lot of settings for sensitivity (and for its phono input, cartridge loading).

If you don't need Quad's very clever tone controls and/or a phono stage, it would probably be better to just buy the 405-2 and use a passive preamp with it.

============
{Moderator's comment: The QUAD preamps have extremely useful tilt controls which get the best out of any/all speaker/room/positioning situations esp. the bass down tilt action.}

[Will]

I borrowed this week-end at my local hi-fi store a Quad 405-2 with a Quad 34 to try with my SHL5. I'm really surprised by the result, what a great match! I love the sound.

They are selling the 405-2 at 499$ CAN and the 34 at 399$ CAN. Those unit have been inspected at the store and they are in superb condition. On the other side, someone else in Montreal sell on classified a Quad 405 with a Quad 44 for 725$ CAN. He stated them as in excellent condition.

What do you guys think of those prices and what will be your choice? I'm a bit puzzled...

Sebastien

P.s.: CAN and US currency are almost the same.

I would buy the set from the store since their techs would have looked it over and you would I assume get a limited warranty. With a private sale, you can never be sure, regardless what they say... and if it breaks a week after, you're looking at an expensive repair bill - probably from the same store that loaned you the Quad set. Also, do you not feel any obligation to buy from the store that so generously loaned you the Quad set to try?

[Sebastien]

...
{Moderator's comment: The QUAD preamps have extremely useful tilt controls which get the best out of any/all speaker/room/positioning situations esp. the bass down tilt action.}

Yes and they are very friendly to use. I like them. I had use the bass one over the week-end because I found that the 405-2 have less bass than my current Luxman L-505u.

Sebastien

[Pluto]

I borrowed this week-end at my local hi-fi store a Quad 405-2 with a Quad 34 to try with my SHL5. I'm really surprised by the result, what a great match! I love the sound.

They are selling the 405-2 at 499$ CAN and the 34 at 399$ CAN. Those unit have been inspected at the store and they are in superb condition.By current UK standards, these prices are a little on the high side for a private sale but about right for a retail store. I know nothing of Canadian retail law, so do you get any kind of protection / warranty on your purchase? If so, well and good.

Has any of this kit been refurbished? The potential problem with any electronica that age is that electrolytic capacitors could be operating well below par. This is dependent upon the amount of use or lack of use that the kit has had in the years between its manufacture and the present day. Electrolytic caps. ought to be checked in a workshop - any external problems (bulging, leaking etc.) predicate a change of the offending components without debate and in this event, change all the electrolytic caps anyway - they cost cents apiece.

The 34 & 44 use identical circuit topologies - the 44 is modular and therefore more flexible (if indeed that is of any concern to you at all). It also has two tape loops - unusual then and to this very day and invaluable if you have need of the facility. The filtering on the 44 is a bit more flexible but unless you are a die hard aficionado of vinyl this is unlikely to be of any concern.

The line-level inputs are too sensitive for the (relatively) massive output of today's CD players but this is easily addressed by changing two resistors to reduce the gain of the input you wish to use for CD. Take a look here (http://quadrevisionspot.blogspot.com/2006/01/quad-34-input-sensitivity.html) for information on this and much more. If you are truly obsessive you can have a 34 sorted out by this guy (http://www.fidele.co.uk/upgrade_list.htm) who will convert it to a truly state of the art pre-amp, bar none. However, I suspect you have people far more local capable of doing similar work.

I would certainly go for the 405-2 option, if only because of potential resale value. If a 405 (ordinaire) remains unmodified its inherent power limitations might get in the way - it was designed not to blow early Quad ESLs to bits.

[Sebastien]

Thank you guys for your advice. I do appreciate. I'm actually thinking about all of this.

Another option appears to me beside selling my Luxman L-505u amplifier to get a Quad set. It is to keep it and sell my Moon LP5.3 phono preamp since the Luxman has a very good phono stage for both MM and MC. I want to downgrade for a while since I don't listen to the music in the sweet spot for hours like I did before. I had my daughter who's 3 months old now. We do listen to music quite often but in a different way.

Sebastien

[RobHolt]

Just to pick up on the clipping issue with the 34, is is important to note that the 34 evolved through production. Later grey versions using phono connection have no clip problem with standard CD players.
On my late grey 34 the volume control setting is the same for equal volume from CD or the inbuilt phono stage.

As mentioned above, small resistor 'flags' were supplied by Quad for insertion into the motherboard to reduce CD gain. If the owner does not have these, a standard metal film resistor of the same value will work if the component legs are bent at 45 deg and inserted into the board.

The sites linked above give details, or of course speak to Quad.

Rob.

{Moderator's comment: My late, grey, phone connectors 34 clips on CD. I assume then that I didn't upgrade the input resistors?}

[Pluto]

{Moderator's comment: My late, grey, phone connectors 34 clips on CD. I assume then that I didn't upgrade the input resistors?}
I suspect the sign is whether the unit has a source selector button that says "CD"! It's reasonable to assume that in the presence of such a button, either the front end gain has been appropriately reduced or the thing was supplied pre-configured for CD.

BUT...

a question - has CD player output always been as high as it is now, or has massive output happened as a by-product of the growth of interest in passive volume control units (I will not use the oxymoron "passive pre-amp").

[honmanm]

I think that the 2V output of CD players has been part of the standard. From the Sony CDP-101 brochure (http://www.audiovideofoto.ro/images/stories/img_blog/cdp-101/Brochure4.jpg) - output 2V RMS.

A contemporary review (actually more an introduction to CD as this was the first player of them all) states:

"The CD player's output is at high level, with flat response. A power amplifier can be driven directly, through a passive volume-control box that can be assembled for about $15."

Moderator's comment: Yes, we have a CDP101 and it was 2V rms, and yes, it did overload the Quad 33 (34/44 came later). In fact, Alan made in-line attenuators during the 1980s and sold them under the Soundbox brand to solve this exact problem.}

[RobHolt]

It would definitely be worth checking that the resistor flags are fitted if using a 34. Quad state in the user manual that the CD input at 300mv is suitable for CD.

If anyone has doubts I'd suggest a phone call to Quad with the serial number and they can advise.

{Moderator's comment: 300mV input sensitivity for CD is ludicrously high when CD outputs 2V or more at peak. And as so many CDs are mastered at or close to peak now compared with the 80s, the poor old preamp will be under severe strain.}