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Sebastien
29-12-2010, 06:00 PM
timber715, I just notice that you have Antique Sound Lab's monoblocks. How are you satisfied by them? I already had a AQ1001DT that I sold last Spring.

Sebastien

P.C.
29-12-2010, 09:11 PM
Hi, timber715.
I really like the design you've come up with for the custom speaker stands. Visually I've always liked the the lightweight open framed stand.
But have always been concerned with the stability of such a top heavy solution. ( especially with my M30's as they need taller stands.
Your design cleverly both enlarges the footprint and has those 4 'locking' supports above the bottom of the speakers which should nicely increase the speakers stability and safety. Good job! I think I'll try something similar.

timber715
30-12-2010, 11:19 AM
timber715, I just notice that you have Antique Sound Lab's monoblocks. How are you satisfied by them? I already had a AQ1001DT that I sold last Spring.

Sebastien
these are my very first tube amplifiers (modded to give about 30 watts) and is currently used to power my B&W CDM1's, so far, it has been a new world for me since I came from a NAD355. I'm no audiophile but I do like music, and so far I am very happy with those mono-blocks. I do hope they have enough to power the incoming C7's. placed my order today, woot!!

P.C., thanks for the compliment, but the stand is far from complete, still is a work in progress. It will have stretchers for all sides that should make it sturdy and stable enough even with a taller configuration.

P.C.
30-12-2010, 03:57 PM
Hi timber715 ,please don't forget to post a pic when their finished.

timber715
31-12-2010, 06:07 AM
Hi timber715 ,please don't forget to post a pic when their finished.
Ok sir I will, though my speakers should arrive April 2011, the stands should be complete in a week or two... our distributor here (takes good care of us) has a good room and some friends that with well set-up'ed too. so I'm enjoying the music from my new friends until I have my own.

Cheers and Happy New Year to all...

Cyreg
05-01-2011, 01:08 PM
I have very good soundresults on C7's with the complete(top incl) IKEA/Oddvar stool, light solid pinewood and rigidly assembled.

My C7's have 4 blobs of BluTack/Pritt Budddies on each corner for stability and to keep the bottompanel free to move.

You can also finish them in the colour you like, matching your speakers.
Probably they are also a good alternative for SHL5's?

timber715
12-01-2011, 05:04 PM
here is the mock-up of the stands with the C7 bottom (dummy bottom of course :D) during clamping...
http://i865.photobucket.com/albums/ab219/timber3715/IMG_0806.jpg

timber715
12-01-2011, 05:13 PM
and here they are after sanding and staining...
http://i865.photobucket.com/albums/ab219/timber3715/IMG_0809.jpg
http://i865.photobucket.com/albums/ab219/timber3715/IMG_0808.jpg
all thats left is the poly finish... and the C7's (which will arrive April. lol)...

P.C.
12-01-2011, 09:06 PM
They look really good! I really like the design you've come up with. You may have mentioned it already but what veneer will your C7's be? The Rosewood would look great on those.

timber715
13-01-2011, 02:18 AM
They look really good! I really like the design you've come up with. You may have mentioned it already but what veneer will your C7's be? The Rosewood would look great on those.
I wanted the Rosewood, but ordered Cherry instead since I needed the extra cash to buy other gear... Thank you for the compliment...

timber715
24-03-2011, 04:46 PM
Finally she arrives. just want to post the final pictures and be done.

http://i865.photobucket.com/albums/ab219/timber3715/IMG_0043-2.jpg
http://i865.photobucket.com/albums/ab219/timber3715/IMG_0041-2.jpg

She sings great, don't know the correct words to describe the sound, but they do make me very happy.

KT88
24-03-2011, 10:33 PM
Welcome, timber, your speakers look as beautiful as I'm sure they sound. Isn't the wood grain fabulous on these speakers? I could look at pictures of Harbeths all day long just to see the various finishes. Works of art!

Enjoy them!

timber715
25-03-2011, 05:55 PM
Welcome, timber, your speakers look as beautiful as I'm sure they sound. Isn't the wood grain fabulous on these speakers? I could look at pictures of Harbeths all day long just to see the various finishes. Works of art!

Enjoy them!

Yes they are a work of art on their own, since I love to work with wood, I couldn't help but notice the work placed on these veneers, not only are they top class they book-matched as well, one mistake and it ruins both speaker boxes...

Lionheart
28-03-2011, 12:28 PM
Congratulations!

luca1967
14-04-2011, 10:36 PM
I try to post a photo of my selfmade stands:

http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/1941/immagine290.jpg

John Geisen
15-04-2011, 12:51 AM
Beautiful job. Congratulations!

John

Double D
17-04-2011, 02:24 AM
I recently made the swap from a pair of "Foundation Stands" (as designed by the Canadian Distributor - Planet of Sound Distribution) to a pair of Skylan Stands 4P-24 for my M30's and all I can say is HOLY CRAP !! The difference was FAR from subtle ! I had really been enjoying my M30's, but to be blunt, I wasn't *HEARING THEM*, or perhaps I should correctly say, NOT hearing them. The Skylan's (loaded up with about 21kg of kitty litter between the pair) have totally liberated the M30's.
The sound is now much more focused, breaths much better, bass is better defined, and articulated, the mids are now VERY holographic, and the highs are ethereal.
So.. if you think that proper support isn't mandatory to getting the best from your Harbeths I suggest you try it for yourself. This has been a total game changer for me. While I was expecting there to be "differences" in the sound between the 2 stands, given what I had read here, and what Alan has suggested that any reasonable support will provide decent results, I was NOT expecting such dramatic changes, and certainly not such "across the board" awesome steps forward.
This has been some of the best $$ spent on money, well, short of buying the M30 in the first place .. LOL..
Noel has a great product with the Skylan Stands .. HIGHLY recommended !

timber715
27-04-2011, 08:43 PM
been enjoying the C7's for a while with my home made open stands, but I am getting a bit more than I need (low frequency wise) in my smallish room. I believe open stands would work very well in a treated or bigger room though.
And reading the whole thread, it seems to point me into several directions. Whilst the open stands do produce a more open sound (it does) and solid bottom (non open) stand seems to limit the bass to some extent. well I decided to make one to try it out...
http://i1210.photobucket.com/albums/cc417/sonny715/IMG_0305.jpg
well I can confirm that it does limit the bass a bit, reducing boomy sound in my room. now all I have to do is apply a finish that would compliment the speaker and I'm done... hope this post helps others.

timber715
30-05-2011, 05:05 AM
Well upon hearing the closed stand for three weeks and returning my open stand I can safely say that the open stand gives better results. The boomy sound I was getting should and have been treated with traps. Reduction in the low frequencies with a close stand also reduced frequencies in all levels as confirmed when I replaced it with the open stand. Now, I have my open stands back and will stay there for good.

http://i1210.photobucket.com/albums/cc417/sonny715/IMG_0356.jpg

all I have to do now is make the diffusers more appealing....

timber715
23-06-2011, 04:51 PM
I have revised the previous stand since it was a prototype. got some leg levelers on the feet for uneven floors and made the legs thinner.
http://i1210.photobucket.com/albums/cc417/sonny715/IMG_0650.jpg
http://i1210.photobucket.com/albums/cc417/sonny715/IMG_0649.jpg
wood is still Mahogany, plus there was a noticeable sound improvement which was a great bonus to have...

PeteFeet
22-07-2011, 09:02 PM
I've just received my SHL5's shortly followed by the stands which are Atacama SL 400. So filling the stand 3/4 full with the requisite Atabites, placing on the floor with spikes and spike shoes to protect the vinyl floor, I also used Isolation Gel Pads as supplied by the stand manufacturer. So far so good? No not quite. They somehow didn't sound quite on the ball as the demo pair did on identical stands. However I had not used the floor protectors with the demo set, so I removed them. Still not up to scratch so I removed the Isolation Gel Pads which I had got to protect the veneer instead of using Blue Tack, still not quite right so on with the Blue Tack, none of this cheap imitation stuff mind.

Now that's more like it even the Mrs doesn't mind me having the system on now.

A. E.
08-10-2011, 08:36 PM
...After so many years & so many pairs of Harbeth, i like them most on unfilled open frame metal stands. Sounds most natural to me in that way.
Mass loaded stands IMHO tend to thicken & add more body or weight to the sound...

Can I control the sound (for problematic recordings) by changing the tension between the stand's legs like that in the picture? Loosen (=?unfilled) to get more high's; and tighten (=?mass load) to get more body?

zindra
14-10-2011, 05:09 PM
I found the attached picture surfing the internet. Can anybody please tell me where to find these stands? They look appealing to me because they are open frame and tilt the speaker.

Unfortunately, I cannot place the tweeter at ear height with regular stands because my setup includes a projector´s screen and the speakers get on the way of the image, tilting the speaker may help at aiming the tweeter more effectively. The page where the image was found http://www.audiofil.net is in polish I believe, and I really don't understand a thing.

Thank you very much.

P.C.
15-10-2011, 02:48 AM
Hello zindra please look back at my posts #99 and #100 on this thread for hopefully the answer.

zindra
15-10-2011, 10:37 AM
Thank you very much. ¿Did you finally order them?

zindra
15-10-2011, 12:31 PM
Thank you very much! Did you finally order them? Is Pear Audio Europe the maker? I looked at their website but the stands were not featured. I'd really like to five those a try for the Monitor 30.

P.C.
15-10-2011, 03:24 PM
I didn't order them as shipping to the USA added to much to cost.But if I where in Europe like you I would have. I also have the M30s and yes Peter Mezek at Pear is the maker. He sent me a pic of the M30 on its stand which I'll post if I can still find it!
They are not shown on his web site but this was his email a few years ago: peter.mezek@volja.net
good luck. Philip.

P.C.
16-10-2011, 05:44 PM
Here's the pic:

zindra
21-10-2011, 12:52 AM
Pear Audio doesn't seem to be making those stands anymore. This has getting me thinking about the Skylan, which is easily available, or I may even try to make a rough home version to check the overall presentation and height, I can't have them high because I project above them. The Skylan pillars look massive, could anyone using them with the Monitor 30 please tell me the width of each of those four pillars and the weight of the stand fully loaded with sand?
Thank you.

P.C.
21-10-2011, 07:20 PM
Zindra funnily enough the Skylan four pillar stand is what I use with my M30's. I love them. Very stable and being flat packed and fillable shipping shouldn't be to bad to Spain. (as compared to Sound Anchors for example). I'll measure the pillars tonight when I get home , although Noel at Skylan may use something different (narrower?) now. No idea of weight when filled but heavy! 100lb + ?

Art K
21-10-2011, 09:22 PM
Call Noel at Skylan. He's a nice to talk to and would happily give you any information that you need.

Don Jr
21-10-2011, 10:22 PM
I just received my Skylan 4P20's for C7's and Noel states in the instructions to fill with kitty litter or rice. In e-mail correspondence after I placed my order, he specifically told me to use kitty litter. I've yet to go out and buy the litter but I would imagine it's quite a bit lighter than sand.

hifi_dave
21-10-2011, 10:36 PM
It is lighter than sand but mass in a speaker stand isn't necessarily a good thing but damping is.

P.C.
22-10-2011, 03:36 AM
On my M30 stands each pillar is just under 3.5" across (and deep) gap between pillars is just under 3".

zindra
23-10-2011, 11:27 PM
Anyone please knows what is the least resonant, heaviest wood to build a pair of open frame stands? Oak, Ash, Maple, other...? I tend to think about oak because I don't know of any instruments made from it, and that leads me to believe it must be pretty dead acoustically.

This weekend I made a pair of open frame stands out of cheap, light pine (see picture). The idea was to build them fast as a prototype and then later, if the results were satisfactory, have them built by a professional carpenter.

The first tests were made with small pucks (made of rubber/carbon I believe) between the speaker and the stand, and nothing between the stand and the hardfloor (marble). The results were not very promising. Then I decided to add some big rubber feet between the stands and the floor and this improved things a lot bringing the speakers to life. When I touch the stands they really vibrate, I can feel vibrations running down the pine wood even at low volumes, and the stand is so flimsy that I'm sure it rocks in time with the bass driver, but the rubber feet seem to dissipate the vibrations and focus everything.

I don't know if this approach (light open frame decoupled from hardfloor with isolation device) is better than a spiked, heavy mass loaded stand such as the Skylan since I have not tried them with the M30, but the results are tempting me to go the extra mile and have them built once I set on which wood is the best for the task.

To P.C.: Thank you again for the information on Skylan dimensions. I really appreciate your support!

durufle
20-11-2011, 02:45 PM
I wasn't 100% happy with the commercial stands available for the SHL5 and figured having something unique was probably the way to go so I designed a pair of stands and had my friend (and master carpenter) Mitch Despaw build them for me. Took a few weeks (10 coats of oil finish!), but they arrived the other day and I'm extremely happy with the results. If anyone is interested in Mitch's contact info, PM me.

http://totomedia.com/pics/shl5/1.jpg

http://totomedia.com/pics/shl5/2.jpg

More photos here:

http://www.totomedia.com/pics/shl5/3.jpg (http://www.totomedia.com/pics/shl5/3.jpg)

http://www.totomedia.com/pics/shl5/4.jpg (http://www.totomedia.com/pics/shl5/4.jpg)

http://www.totomedia.com/pics/shl5/5.jpg (http://www.totomedia.com/pics/shl5/5.jpg)

zindra
20-11-2011, 11:26 PM
After almost a year with the Monitor 30 I have recently decided to take another approach at stands and raised them even higher than usual. With my home made light pine open frame stands and an arrangement of books to make them taller, the M30's base is now 70cm high (27.5"). This is higher than any commercial stands made purposely for the M30 which are usually 10cm lower (24"). The speakers are also wider apart and closer to the side walls but this does not degrade image at all. No spikes, no isolation, no decoupling, nothing fancy, just a light open frame tall stand that vibrates with the speaker. Well, the speakers rest on the books and these on the stand, maybe the books act as dampers? It is, by far, the biggest improvement I've heard with the M30s. This makes me wonder how much some of us spend on cables, tweaks and system upgrades when so much can be gained at no cost, or very little. It's not only treble that is better, everything seems in place, soundstage, image, dynamics, bass. There is less bass (boomy) but it is not missed as I expected, since it's not bloated it can be followed easily and drives the music forward, now I am tapping again as I listen. My stands were not low, they were actually 60cm (24") which is what is usually suggested, but the additional height really improves things.
The only problem is that with stands so high the monitors occupy even as much or more space than a full range floorstander, which kind of defeats the reason I moved from floorstanders to monitors.

Harlequin
22-12-2011, 10:36 AM
[QUOTE=123teemu;8485]Perhaps I was just unlucky. Attached is a picture of the SS XF stands that I received. They were of slightly different heights, did not stand level and nothing in the stands even lined up (as can be seen from the picture to some extent) The construction really was poor (and cheap) IMVHO - just poorly welded steel and a bit of spray paint (that was already bubbling and chipping away) from a can as far as I could see.

Br,
Teme


Hola Gentlemen .

I am wondering whether this particular matter was ever resolved ? I was considering the Something Solid stands as one possible option for my M30's , however given Teme's experience I am re-considering those options .

All the best.

H.

hifi_dave
22-12-2011, 05:08 PM
I've been selling Something Solid stands for 25 years and never had any complaints concerning construction, finish and certainly not the performance.

Harlequin
22-12-2011, 06:18 PM
Thank you for your response Sir , I was rather hoping for a little further information regarding the specific situation as commented upon by member Teme, I really wasn't soliciting for a somewhat Cut n Paste product commercial .

123teemu
22-12-2011, 08:01 PM
Thank you for your response Sir , I was rather hoping for a little further information regarding the specific situation as commented upon by member Teme, I really wasn't soliciting for a somewhat Cut n Paste product commercial .

I can only comment on what I have experienced personally. I am sure hifi_dave has seen way more pairs of the Something Solid stands than me and I have no reason whatsoever to doubt or question his comments. To the contrary.

So, just to be clear, I've seen only the one pair that I received myself and subsequently commented on as accurately as I could, including posting the pics of those stands. I was very unhappy with them and think that as products they were totally unacceptable by any standard. Having said this, I do not know for a fact if mine were real "Something Solid" stands or poor quality knock-off's of them. That is unknown to me to this date, but I sure hope they were knock-offs. I did get my money back and bought something else that I am happy with.

Please drop me a private message if you have any questions orvwant further details.

Br,
Teme

Harlequin
22-12-2011, 09:09 PM
Thank you for the clarification of this particular situation Teme , pleased to hear that matters worked out well for you in the end .

Regards.

H.

soverton
08-01-2012, 04:20 PM
I have to confess to being rather foolish in that I allowed someone to persuade me that they were able to supply a stand for my SHL5s which was an improvement on Skylans. Below are the before and after pictures.I appreciate the advice from Harbeth has been that, in general, there should be no significant difference to the performance of their speakers whatever support is used. I understand why they would say that, and why they would not wish to point customers of their products to any specific stand or electronics for that matter. All I can do is explain my circumstances and the solution which works best for me.

I have a small room 3 metres by 5 metres by 2.75 metres with a solid wood floor over a suspended wood floor with a large ,cold garage-shaped void beneath. There are rugs between the speakers and my listening position, a window with drapes behind, a well stuffed 2 metre sofa for listening and open record shelves and record cupboards. It is not overly damped but then neither is it too bright.Whatever I did, I could not tame a bass boom. The first stands I had were heavy metal - 12 kgs plus filling- and put the tweeter a little below my ear level - I am vertically challenged, not enough to get a job in pantomime, but towards that end of the scale.

Belatedly it occurred to me that the problem was the stands and their height. When you look at the photographs you will say of course it was you idiot.
So I ordered some Skylans which were delivered in an incredibly short time - two and a half days from Canada to London. I have only lived with the Skylans for three days and can report the following:

1. My bass boom has been tamed, I have agile and tuneful bass in proportion to the amount on the recording rather than the addition of 15 sq M of sounding board floor and space beneath.
2. I am getting the same level of sound at a lower volume setting. I don't know if the elimination of the smearing introduced by the bass boom produces this,perhaps someone here better qualified can comment.
3. My stereo image has improved.Previously there were recordings which were definitely coming from left or right speakers, now they are better integrated into a stereo image between and behind the speakers.I suspect that because I am listening in a nearer field than is ideal they will never completely 'disappear', but we are getting there.
4. Separation of instruments and, for example the definition and decay of the notes on a piano keyboard, has improved.
5. I can position the speakers closer to the side walls - 25 cms - than I had thought possible.Useful in a small room like mine and many in the UK.

This is with the Skylans unfilled, sometime next week I am expecting a delivery of HDPE pellets to add weight (but hopefully not bloat) to the legs. From my perspective, there is a definite benefit in using a stand which has been designed for the Harbeth, rather than one which can be adapted to any speaker by changing the height and top-plate.

See what I mean - Sidney

http://i631.photobucket.com/albums/uu32/sjoverton/IMG_0892.jpg
http://i631.photobucket.com/albums/uu32/sjoverton/IMG_0894.jpg

P.C.
09-01-2012, 02:24 AM
The taller stands also make the SHL5's look much more 'noble' and upstanding!

hifi_dave
09-01-2012, 10:32 AM
Sidney,
What ever you do, don't fill the legs completely. Do it bit by bit and judge the results. Often, similar stands sound fat and bloated with the legs filled. Start with 1/4 fill, which might be all you need and go from there.

soverton
09-01-2012, 04:11 PM
Dave, Thanks for the suggestion. I spoke to Noel at Skylan (an astonishingly enthusiastic audio man) who thinks 85% fill maximum, but I'm sure that will vary according to the environment. Like most people I can hear big changes in sound and, with experience, recognise that I will prefer one thing or the other. I am less sure when small incremental changes are made, I can probably retain one or two variations and compare them, after that it becomes a blur.But your advice still applies, apart from anything it is easier to fill by small amounts than to take it out.

A. E.
10-01-2012, 06:02 PM
Dear hifi_dave,

What's the difference in sound between Something Solid stands and Skylan stands?
I like full bodied sound. Which one should I buy for M40.1?


...similar stands sound fat and bloated with the legs filled...
Does "fat and bloated" means I'll hear the piano really big enough and 6m long?

Skylan seems giving a chance to control the sound by filling. Tensioning the SS stands looks like filling the Skylan's?

http://www.harbeth.co.uk/usergroup/showthread.php?62-Stands-for-your-Harbeths&p=15887#post15887
(http://www.harbeth.co.uk/usergroup/showthread.php?62-Stands-for-your-Harbeths&p=15887#post15887)

dc8300
18-01-2012, 11:31 AM
Dear all,

New to the forum. My regards to everybody-

Have spent many years with different equipment configuration. Only just recently have become the proud owner of a pair of the new c7´s. Pairing them with a Naim 5i in a small, rectangular room setting (app 4m*3m) filled with furniture, books, records…

According to Harbeth, the c7´s are “…far less critical of stand height than many speakers of this size…”

Currently using a pair of 40cm high Ikea stands, with open bottom surface. Main reason behind being that they provide a very solid bass, and are rigidly attached to the stand… I have a small daughter with the risk of the speakers going to the floor! However, can´t help the feeling that I should invest in some decent stands to get more out of my system.

Being the melomaniac that I am, home sounds are constantly filled by a variety of genres, ranging from 60´s rock to jazz and blues, from funk to folk, from electronic to dubstep… that is to say, open to pretty much everything that does not include crappy, non-quality commercial music. I say so because, based on this, I would like advice on stands. Mind you I do like to extract the maximum of the system´s ability to deliver bass (clean and clear, not to say boomy,) which is not the forte of the naim-harbeth combination.

To summarise, bearing in mind I cannot test at home, and budget is around 200 gbp should I choose between:

Open stands like the Something Solid XF(http://www.hificorner.co.uk/something-solid-xf-speaker-stand.html) or epos st12i (http://www.epos-acoustics.com/products/st12i/)

Or rather

Closed stands like the Atacama sl500 with Atabytes (in this case the flexibility of testing with different levels of atabytes might be of use? (http://store.atacama-audio.co.uk/products/productdetail/SL+Speaker+Stands+500mm%2819.7%22%29/part_number=SL500/758.2.4.3.32919.14737.0.0.0?pp=12&) or the standesign (no web, but have spotted a pair. Look very solid)

And to complicate it a little more, the option that would provide the safet solution? (children in mind…)

Great forum and Thank you!

Cyreg
18-01-2012, 10:42 PM
Hi dc8300, I do use Ikea Oddvar wooden benches (33x33x45 cm) with my C7's.
It's sounding very good in combination with the LFD Zero LE3.1
Read a lot about other stands, but I donot feel the urge to change to one of those.

I am interested in > which Ikea 40cm high, open bottom stands you are using ATM?

dc8300
19-01-2012, 09:09 PM
Cyreg,

I will try to upload a couple of pictures tomorrow...

dc8300
20-01-2012, 05:48 PM
Hope the pictures work....

This is definitely a "very safe" solution. It is close to impossible that my 3 yr old daughter will manage to drop the speakers.

Solid base, black double sided stick.

However, after having "educated" her I am looking for something that will extract more out of the Harbeths.

Might opt for a pair of (out of stock) Standesign 20" closed top stands.

Can anyone give me their opinion on the benefits for the bass region of a closed as opposed to open top stand?

Its all about experimenting eh?

Health and strength...

Cyreg
20-01-2012, 06:25 PM
dc, I think you do have a very nice solution from Ikea (which model?) here.
I would be surprised if some other stands (600 euro's?) would sound very much BETTER.
Of course they will sound different, but......better in the end????
Furthermore it's all depending on the rest of your system ;-)

A. E.
12-02-2012, 11:52 AM
I've tried some foam (Auralex MoPAD - Monitor Isolation Pads that decouple the speakers) on an Ikea type stand:
I got more tight and clear basses; palpable imaging and air around instruments; broader soundscape;
high and mids became more intelligible.

http://www.auralex.com/sound_isolation_mopad/sound_isolation_mopad.asp

lizzzy
15-02-2012, 12:03 PM
Hi,
I bought my stands by liedtke-metalldesign a german high end stands manufacterer.
It sounds and looks very nice.
on the linked page you see a lot of different stands with different speakes not only Harbeth but a lot.
http://www.liedtke-metalldesign.de/page5.php

lizzzy

Lionheart
16-02-2012, 06:58 AM
CONGRATULATIONS!! These are very nice stands!! Excellent craftsmanship! :D


I wasn't 100% happy with the commercial stands available for the SHL5 and figured having something unique was probably the way to go so I designed a pair of stands and had my friend (and master carpenter) Mitch Despaw build them for me. Took a few weeks (10 coats of oil finish!), but they arrived the other day and I'm extremely happy with the results. If anyone is interested in Mitch's contact info, PM me.

http://totomedia.com/pics/shl5/1.jpg

http://totomedia.com/pics/shl5/2.jpg

More photos here:

http://www.totomedia.com/pics/shl5/3.jpg (http://www.totomedia.com/pics/shl5/3.jpg)

http://www.totomedia.com/pics/shl5/4.jpg (http://www.totomedia.com/pics/shl5/4.jpg)

http://www.totomedia.com/pics/shl5/5.jpg (http://www.totomedia.com/pics/shl5/5.jpg)

Paul Moraw
17-02-2012, 03:34 AM
Hello,

I have used all types of different stands with my SHL5's and m30's including Skylan, Sound anchor, Foundation and even the boxes that the m30's came in served as stands, albeit for a very short time. All stands had their positives and negatives, but my favorite were Skylan as they seemed to give the most balanced sound overall. Recently I have decided to build my own open frame stands out of Oak. The costs were low, here's the breakdown Oak $70, Cherry stain $10, Foundation audio spike set(8) $75 (prices in canadian dollars on par with USD). The whole project took about 2 days to complete.

keithwwk
17-02-2012, 04:14 AM
Nice stand you made. what happen on the right side (horizontal white line) of right speaker?

Paul Moraw
17-02-2012, 04:28 AM
Nice stand you made. what happen on the right side (horizontal white line) of right speaker?
Thank you for the kind words. That must be the reflection of the camera flash. The speakers are brand new.

A. E.
17-02-2012, 05:57 PM
Dear Paul Moraw,

Congratulations, they really look so nice... what about the sound? what's the difference between Skylan's?

Paul Moraw
17-02-2012, 07:35 PM
Thank you kindly.. The sound is really amazing very open and natural the best I've heard from my m30's so far. I think a lot has to do with fact that I built the stands so that the tweeter matches my ear height perfectly when sitting in my listening chair, I got my lovely wife to use a tape measure and a 2 foot level as I sat in my chair to measure the height. As it turned out the stands had to be exactly 26 inches high which is around 2 inches higher that most stands sold for the m30's, I think that made the single biggest difference in quality of sound. The Skylan stands I've used before were also very very good, I found the overall presentaion of the skylan and my Oak stands to be very balanced as opposed to the Foundation open frame stands which highlight the high frequencies but lose in bass definition, or the superheavy Sound anchor stands which are great on bass but thats about it. My only fuss about the Skylan stands was that once filled they can be quite heavy, I seem to always be tinkering with speaker placement and a nice light stand can go a long way to an easier setup. The Skylan Stands truly look and sound great though, and if you get them with the special isolation cubes they get even better. If I was to compare my stands to the Skylans I wouls say its a tossup, sound wise they are similar both open and detailed and most of all well balanced. Cost wise the oak stands are a lot cheaper if you are willing to put in the time. I think the skylans look a bit better but thats subjective. The Skylans might last longer as the materials used in Skylans are not prone to warping over time. The Oak stands are alot lighter on the other hand and allow for easier speaker positioning.

Double D
18-02-2012, 03:23 PM
I'm also using the Skylan stands under my M30's and the difference between them and the original (Canadian) Foundation stands was far from subtle. A far more balanced presentation overall with superior bass control and definition. I also have the newer isolation cubes that Skylan is providing, and the difference is subtle, yet again moves the performance ahead overall.

Lionheart
20-02-2012, 04:51 AM
http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k63/SkyAudio/ea21b6ad.jpg

Guizu BWS-7 Stands :D

Paul Moraw
21-02-2012, 04:46 PM
Wow, what a great looking wooden stand!! Do the three holes drilled out on the top cross brace serve a purpose?

fred40
08-02-2013, 12:49 PM
Found These speaker stands made by quadraspire. Astonishing looking stands ( IMHO) Wonder if anyone can comment if they are suitable for my P3 esr. Can"t find any more information on them.

egoBen
02-03-2013, 01:43 PM
I'm about to order a pair of open frame metal stands for my new pair of M30.1, but first I wan't to know if a stand like that affect the bass?

I don't want the bass to be less firm, rather the other way around. This thread is so big I really can't go through all the posts, sorry, I hope someone wants to help me out. Thanks!

hifi_dave
02-03-2013, 05:31 PM
The best stands I know of, by a country mile, are the Something Solid XF. A relatively lightweight, open frame formed from welded steel bar. I've used them with many speakers over the years and, for me, give the best results.

garmtz
02-03-2013, 09:09 PM
I'm about to order a pair of open frame metal stands for my new pair of M30.1, but first I wan't to know if a stand like that affect the bass?

I don't want the bass to be less firm, rather the other way around. This thread is so big I really can't go through all the posts, sorry, I hope someone wants to help me out. Thanks!

I find Custom Design 'Fish Tank' stands to be very, very good... They are custom made in exactly the size you wish (exact to the mm). Order them with filling holes and fill up with Inert Filler to get the ring out of them.

2433

egoBen
03-03-2013, 10:10 AM
Thank you Hifi_Dave and Garmtz. Custom Design Fish Tank stands are exactly what I'm planning to order. It's very good to hear that they are good with Harbeth speakers! Filling holes, I was asked if I wanted that, now I know. Thanks again.

timber715
25-07-2013, 05:34 PM
Decided to make a pair of stands...
http://i1210.photobucket.com/albums/cc417/sonny715/image-41.jpg
Similar to the ones sold by Harbeth Japan but without the top...
http://i1210.photobucket.com/albums/cc417/sonny715/824C4EE5-0ECC-4A5F-B2A4-0A710063D47A-182-0000005A177F7600.jpg

muypogi
04-08-2013, 05:27 PM
Haven't posted in a while. . . . so here's my contribution.

Just moved to a new house with an attic as a dedicated listening room, with stands and platforms made of acacia wood, from a local maker.

2644

2646

2645

Dennis
13-08-2013, 03:16 PM
Does anyone know the exact dimensions of the Foundation stand for the Harbeth M30.1? And besides height, width, depth also the size/thickness of the tubes?

Can anyone help? Would be greatly appreciated.

Miles MG
13-08-2013, 04:03 PM
I have a pair of early LS3/5a stands for my HL-P3s. The top is the correct size and the height is perfect. ( They also look OK... ) I don't have spikes, just stick-on pads for the top and bottom. Do I need anything else ? I think not.

I have my original HL Monitors on stands with castors. This is so they can be pulled out into the room when in use. Some 'Audiophiles' would certainly not approve, I'm sure...

M G Miles.

jack667
15-01-2014, 03:52 AM
2935

Could someone tell me what stands these are?

hendrik
15-01-2014, 01:11 PM
these are mine..

http://www.harbeth.co.uk/usergroup/attachment.php?attachmentid=2461&d=1363258009

made of solid steel 30 x 6 mm at a local construction company

Novak
15-01-2014, 01:29 PM
They could be custom made.

I have some very similar ones made by Custom Design in the UK. I sent them a drawing, and they made them in 15mm square section tube, powder coated black with spikes in the base and holes at the top for some fine filler.

I had mine made for both M30.1 and P3ESR. Great finish, nice to deal with, although they can take a few weeks (usually around 4 or 5 weeks)

theron_day
22-02-2014, 01:28 AM
Where can you find these in the States? Thanks in advance for any input....


The best stands I know of, by a country mile, are the Something Solid XF. A relatively lightweight, open frame formed from welded steel bar. I've used them with many speakers over the years and, for me, give the best results.

coredump
22-02-2014, 03:38 PM
i have used those 4 metal poles stand and subsequently switched to Skylan stand for aesthetics reason . it makes a difference and i like the SHL5 with Skylan combination. of course i am bewildered with the changes; how can a speaker stand makes a day & night different on sound.

i stick with the Skylan stand ever since

123teemu
23-02-2014, 09:33 AM
A local carpenter made these stands for my Monitor 30.1's, according to my specifications, for around 100 GBP for the pair. This was excluding spikes, but including the threads for the spikes and with one layer of top oil/varnish. I had the spikes myself and in the final picture you can also see the finish after three more layers of top oil/varnish that I applied myself (the first three images are showing the finish after only one layer). The material of the stands is birch.

http://www.pbase.com/teme/image/151898260.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/teme/image/151898261.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/teme/image/151898262.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/teme/image/154583885.jpg

Br,
Teme

chirhonix
23-02-2014, 12:17 PM
Hi, Teme,
very nice stands. What did you put between the 30.1s and the stands? I see a small gap.

Regards,
Peter

123teemu
23-02-2014, 05:06 PM
Hi Peter,

Thanks. I just used small self-adhesive bumper pads by 3M. Something like this:

http://cdn.dickblick.com/items/189/00/18900-1000-2ww-m.jpg

Br,
Teme

ipcook
09-04-2014, 01:22 PM
Can I ask a very naive question, with speaker stands with spikes do the spikes rest on the floor and if so what are the spikes resting on to prevent damage to the floor or do the speakers themselves rest on the spikes?
thanks for any help

mpedris
11-04-2014, 06:42 AM
At the last CES show we we most impressed with the hand made Resonant Woods stands. These do not claim any exotic voodoo but they are beautifully made by a really gifted American craftsman, Brooks Tanner who we have become very friendly with at these past CES shows.

Of course, handmade eucalyptus, chgerry and walnut stands take time, care and love to produce so they are not in the Skylan cost range, but they are beautiful. And Brooks is s fine man who deserves to have his semi-custom stands in your homes with our speakers. He can adjust the design a little, and the materials and the interface with the speaker to taste. The basic stand has simple threaded spikes (like Skylan) on the base, with a brass puck between the speaker and stand.

As a indication, a pair of these stands would take Brooks about three days - yes, three days - solid work (as Brooks says, a crazy amount of time but he is a perfectionist) and on a direct-sale basis the M40.1 stands wil cost you from $1600-1800/pair plus shipping. Fantastic value with genuine pride of ownership. Strongly recommeneded by me for the beautiful workmanship.

Brooks' web site is here (http://www.resonantwoods.com/2009%20CES.html) and you can reach him through the website info.

Has anyone actually used Resonant Woods stands that Alan talks about in the quoted post? Any impressions?

Being an old post, the link Alan provided seems to not work. Here is the correct link.
http://www.resonantwoods.com/speak.html

JackL
01-06-2014, 01:33 AM
I have just bought my first pair of Harbeth's, C7ES-3, and should receive them in about a week. I am excited. This is my first post. I have read some, of course not all, of this forum. It was interesting that Alan Shaw appears to just use whatever is at hand. I need to save money initially on stands so I looked on Amazon and found: Winsome Wood Assembled 24-Inch Swivel Stools, Set of 2, for $50.97.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000TDMU6A/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

These are 24" barstools with a swivel feature. I thought I would try these first. Should be a breeze to experiment with toe-in, and if I latter upgrade, I have some barstools ready when friends come over.

Any of you more experienced users have any thoughts?

hifi_dave
01-06-2014, 10:04 AM
They will do the job for you with the proviso that they should allow the tweeter to be at ear level and that you like the appearance.

andrew
01-06-2014, 12:39 PM
Hi people
New here
I have had a pair of 40.1's for a few months now and have recently had stands made.{18mm MDF top plate,70mm sq maple legs x4 off and an 8mm mild steel base plate that is spiked}
I have trolled this forum and it is now nearly bloody midnight[lol] and I cant find a consensus here on whether or not the speakers should be lifted slightly from the top plate or they sing best sitting directly on to it. Blu tak would obviously be useless as it would just squash with the weight.

Id be greatful to hear from the factory if at all possible.
Kind regards to you all and what a great forum

All the best from New Zealand

P.C.
01-06-2014, 02:59 PM
Hello Andrew.

The first thought I have is why don't you try both options yourself to see which you prefer. I expect you'll be hard pressed to hear much if any difference.

I expect the consensus is its best to place 4 small 'bumpers' between them. If only to help protect the veneer from being marked and to provide a more stable and secure interaction. (cork pads work well)

andrew
01-06-2014, 09:13 PM
Hi there

Yes I think that will be the order of the day. I do get quite cynical with a lot of these things that I''m sure if people had to do a blind test it would be pure luck if they had to guess either way.
Thank you for the reply

First day of winter here....yuck!

Rafe Arnot
02-06-2014, 02:08 AM
Mass-filled Skylans. Sound absolutely brilliant.

3198

Rafe Arnot
02-06-2014, 06:00 AM
Absolutely beautiful system.


A local carpenter made these stands for my Monitor 30.1's, according to my specifications, for around 100 GBP for the pair. This was excluding spikes, but including the threads for the spikes and with one layer of top oil/varnish. I had the spikes myself and in the final picture you can also see the finish after three more layers of top oil/varnish that I applied myself (the first three images are showing the finish after only one layer). The material of the stands is birch.

http://www.pbase.com/teme/image/151898260.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/teme/image/151898261.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/teme/image/151898262.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/teme/image/154583885.jpg

Br,
Teme

skylan
09-06-2014, 12:14 AM
Stand Height for HL-5plus.

First some regular measurements.

From the bottom of the cabinet to the Tweeter is 48 cm,(19")

Normal seated persons ear height,(couch/sofa) is around 94cm,(37") from the floor,( say for person of 173cm,(5'-9") tall.)

To accommodate easy listening, the cabinet would need a stand height of at least 46cm, (18") high. (Absolutely not lower).

Using a regular kitchen/office chair the measurements go considerably higher. Ear height, 119cm,(46.3/4") so you could use a stand of 70cm,(Min 27") high.

I have had my own HL-5 speakers on higher stands here during tryout and the performance is great.

Going back to the normal couch/sofa listening position I believe that you could use a taller stand at say around 56cm,(22") for the new HL-5plus. It is better to have the Tweeter higher than lower, especially in the nearfield, 170cm,(67") distance from the Speakers.

I am sure that Alan may have something more to add with trials at the weekend Guildford Audio show.

Cheers,
Noel Nolan
403.273.1735
www.skylanstands.com

hendrik
09-06-2014, 05:57 PM
Looked at your site and all your stands are made of mdf mass loaded. Could you describe the difference ( sound) with for instance a rigid non resonant open steel construction for Harbeth speakers?

EricW
10-06-2014, 05:18 PM
Looked at your site and all your stands are made of mdf mass loaded.

No. The top and bottom plates are MDF; the pillars are some sort of plastic. Through them runs a threaded steel rod that ties the top and bottom plates together. You can fill the pillars with whatever you like.

As for the sound as compared to open metal stands, I'll let other weigh in on that.

hifi 87452
08-08-2014, 02:09 PM
Hello Users....

Sorry for the bad English first... We are new here and posting from Germany. We are hifi-bauernhof, one of the most successful Harbeth-Dealer in Germany. We love these speakers and we know a lot about them. To get the most out of the Harbeths you need a perfect Stand. But all the available Stands in Germany don`t show what the Harbeth are able to... So we decided to design and distribute a Stand for our own. We call them the hifi-bauernhof Reference Stand.

The Stands are manufactured completely ecologically from FSC-Certified wood of German Trees. The Sound of the Harbeth on our stands is shocking! We never heard the Harbeths like this before... Perhaps Alan Shaw takes some time a gives us the chance to send him a pair of Reference Stands...

But be careful... You can`t go back to any other Stand!!! Watch the Foto and connect us on www.hifi-bauernhof.de (http://www.hifi-bauernhof.de)

3294

P.C.
08-08-2014, 02:58 PM
They look nice enough.

mpedris
08-08-2014, 03:48 PM
Hello Users....

Sorry for the bad English first... We are new here and posting from Germany. We are hifi-bauernhof, one of the most successful Harbeth-Dealer in Germany. We love these speakers and we know a lot about them. To get the most out of the Harbeths you need a perfect Stand. But all the available Stands in Germany don`t show what the Harbeth are able to... So we decided to design and distribute a Stand for our own. We call them the hifi-bauernhof Reference Stand.

The Stands are manufactured completely ecologically from FSC-Certified wood of German Trees. The Sound of the Harbeth on our stands is shocking! We never heard the Harbeths like this before... Perhaps Alan Shaw takes some time a gives us the chance to send him a pair of Reference Stands...

But be careful... You can`t go back to any other Stand!!! Watch the Foto and connect us on www.hifi-bauernhof.de (http://www.hifi-bauernhof.de)

3294

That's very interesting. Thanks for sharing this information.

Do you ship your stands to the United States?

Labarum
08-08-2014, 04:14 PM
My preference would be for the cantilever stands that were common with the BBC tradition speakers years ago.

Does anyone still make them?

hifi 87452
08-08-2014, 04:29 PM
Hello mpedris....

We start with the Stands so we didn`t send to USA. But we have to check the costs... So why not???

We have to check the Prices.... Which Harbeth do you use???

mpedris
08-08-2014, 05:17 PM
Hello mpedris....

We start with the Stands so we didn`t send to USA. But we have to check the costs... So why not???

We have to check the Prices.... Which Harbeth do you use???

I am planning on getting the 40.1 soon.

It's great that you can send to the US. Please let me know the costs (product + shipping).

hendrik
08-08-2014, 06:49 PM
Hello Users....

Sorry for the bad English first... We are new here and posting from Germany. We are hifi-bauernhof, one of the most successful Harbeth-Dealer in Germany. We love these speakers and we know a lot about them. To get the most out of the Harbeths you need a perfect Stand. But all the available Stands in Germany don`t show what the Harbeth are able to... So we decided to design and distribute a Stand for our own. We call them the hifi-bauernhof Reference Stand.

The Stands are manufactured completely ecologically from FSC-Certified wood of German Trees. The Sound of the Harbeth on our stands is shocking! We never heard the Harbeths like this before... Perhaps Alan Shaw takes some time a gives us the chance to send him a pair of Reference Stands...

But be careful... You can`t go back to any other Stand!!! Watch the Foto and connect us on www.hifi-bauernhof.de (http://www.hifi-bauernhof.de)

3294

Ofcourse you must be very satisfied with your own product and you want to sell it, but tell me what is the unique concept behind your stand design ?
Do you also have a special recommandation about the one and only cable I have to use with my Harbeth speakers, please tell me !

audylubis
09-08-2014, 12:49 AM
Regarding speaker cables, I would say Tellurium Q Black works great with my Super HL5.

Kumar Kane
09-08-2014, 05:40 AM
This isn't a rhetorical question.
I know that a stand has to result in the speakers being at the right height, and to be a safe place to keep them. With decent aesthetics as a bonus.

What other properties are scientifically known to affect the sound quality from a Harbeth speaker placed on a stand?

The need for being a safe place would presuppose a degree of stand robustness in line with the weight of the speaker in question, so does that take care of sound quality needs for that speaker automatically?

hifi 87452
09-08-2014, 09:37 AM
Ofcourse you must be very satisfied with your own product and you want to sell it, but tell me what is the unique concept behind your stand design ?
Do you also have a special recommandation about the one and only cable I have to use with my Harbeth speakers, please tell me !

Hello Hendrik....
We tried different Stands for the different Harbeth Models. And we did lots of listening tests with different stands. Sometimes it felt like the Harbeths are a little bit braked. Not really fast and open. The Timing also got lost one some other stands. Especially with Speaker which have a "working Cabinet" like Harbeth or Spendor you have to Control the Vibations of the Cabinet and use it for an Advantage. So if you built a Stand which is very light, but very stable you reach the goal.

We also tested different sorts of Wood to get the BEST out of it. (The differences are UNBELIVABLE)
Believe us... this Stand is a Masterpiece....

hifi 87452
09-08-2014, 10:09 AM
This isn't a rhetorical question.
I know that a stand has to result in the speakers being at the right height, and to be a safe place to keep them. With decent aesthetics as a bonus.

What other properties are scientifically known to affect the sound quality from a Harbeth speaker placed on a stand?

The need for being a safe place would presuppose a degree of stand robustness in line with the weight of the speaker in question, so does that take care of sound quality needs for that speaker automatically?

In our Opinion the weight of the Speaker is not so important. But if The Speaker is heavier you have to built the Stand so that it is stable and not wiggling. The goal is to make it so light as possible, but so stable as important...

hifi 87452
09-08-2014, 10:18 AM
Regarding speaker cables, I would say Tellurium Q Black works great with my Super HL5.

We also sell the Tellurium Q Black. It is a quite good Cable... but if you listen to a Neyton Black you will never hear the Tellurium. The Best results we get if we use the Neyton Cables for Power, RCA and Speakers.... This gives you a real Advantage... The Neyton Cable are unbelivable fast, pure and natural with absolutely no coloration... (We think the most Cable "do something" with the Signal) The Neytons just transport the Signal.
But be careful: if there are "mistakes" in the System...maybe Neyton shows it...

Kumar Kane
09-08-2014, 12:53 PM
The goal is to make it so light as possible, but so stable as important...
Interesting. Would you say that this goal becomes an objective for all bookshelf speakers, or only those that are built in the manner Harbeth cabinets are built?

The Neyton Cable are unbelivable fast, pure and natural with absolutely no coloration... (We think the most Cable "do something" with the Signal) The Neytons just transport the Signal.
But be careful: if there are "mistakes" in the System...maybe Neyton shows it...
This statement is not going to go unquestioned on this forum. What is so special about a Neyton speaker cable that cannot be done just as well by a good quality commodity copper cable of enough thickness taking the length of the cable into account? These cables also "just transport" the signal and are much cheaper, I imagine.

Kumar Kane
09-08-2014, 01:28 PM
The Neytons just transport the Signal.
But be careful: if there are "mistakes" in the System...maybe Neyton shows it...
Further on the speaker cable subject - the last time I bought speaker cable was for my Harbeth installation, it was a German cable, Cordial CLS 240. No audiophile claims about it, but very well constructed, with 2 well insulated, stranded copper cores of 4 sq mm thickness. With a very good quality black outer sheath, it is also very flexible to bend around tight corners.

I recently bought some cheap Indian cable that looks exactly the same, but the construction quality difference was very visible during cable dressing and termination. It took me a lot longer to strip and dress the cable ends for terminating it to the speaker/amp, and it doesn't flex as well. The number of strands are fewer than in the German cable.

I doubt that there is any difference in the sound, but if I were to buy again, I would buy Cordial for its ease of use. It isn't anywhere as expensive as the usual audiophile speaker cable, but I don't think its sound, construction quality or ability to be laid around corners for the thickness can be bettered by any.

Kumar Kane
09-08-2014, 01:44 PM
The goal is to make it so light as possible, but so stable as important...
I seem to remember reading/seeing that one way of meeting the objective is to suspend the speakers by wires from the ceiling, doing away with the need for any stands.
While this may not be a practical solution for most people at home, would this be the way to get the best sound from the speakers, where the stand subject is concerned?
If so, where stands are the only solution, the above goal seems to be the logical one.
On the other hand, there are people who mass load their stands to make them as heavy as possible.

Nothing is straightforward in the audiophile world...

anonymous
09-08-2014, 05:53 PM
Believe us... this Stand is a Masterpiece....


We also sell the Tellurium Q Black. It is a quite good Cable... but if you listen to a Neyton Black you will never hear the Tellurium. The Best results we get if we use the Neyton Cables for Power, RCA and Speakers.... This gives you a real Advantage... The Neyton Cable are unbelivable fast, pure and natural with absolutely no coloration... (We think the most Cable "do something" with the Signal) The Neytons just transport the Signal. But be careful: if there are "mistakes" in the System...maybe Neyton shows it...

http://www.harbeth.co.uk/usergroup/announcement.php?f=10


We regret but we cannot accept Posts that encourage users to buy exotic cables, electronics or accessories and such posts will be deleted without notice or edited down. The Moderators' decision is final in all matters regarding what appears here. From April 2013 the moderation policy has been adjusted to keep the overall content as tight and relevant as possible for serious objectively-inclined readers. People like us, in fact, who by keeping our feet on the ground are able to design and deliver real-world value in loudspeakers that last.

http://www.harbeth.co.uk/usergroup/showthread.php?709-Moderation-our-policy&p=13524#post13524


Discussion about cables on the Harbeth User Group
======================================

Harbeth does not make cables and has no intention of doing so as they are such an emotive subject. We do not wish to provide space and a discussion platform on the HUG to promote a product we are unable to supply.

Any posts concerning cables and interconnects are unlikely to pass Moderation unless they approach the subject objectively. Thank you for your understanding.

{Moderator's comment: OK, now it's time to explain exactly what steps have been taken by the original poster, hifi 87452, to show why they are not just talking the marketing talk about their stands and the cable they sell. Over to you gentlemen for a full, credible explanation please. We don't object to marketing, but we do need to be able to differentiate enthusiasm from self-deception. But be warned hifi 87452, if you are not able to separate your natural enthusiasm from objectivity, you will have a very tough time here.}

Miles MG
09-08-2014, 06:23 PM
We also sell the Tellurium Q Black. It is a quite good Cable... but if you listen to a Neyton Black you will never hear the Tellurium. The Best results we get if we use the Neyton Cables for Power, RCA and Speakers.... This gives you a real Advantage... The Neyton Cable are unbelivable fast, pure and natural with absolutely no coloration... (We think the most Cable "do something" with the Signal) The Neytons just transport the Signal.
But be careful: if there are "mistakes" in the System...maybe Neyton shows it...

A fast cable. Is that like a fast woman ? Both need interpretation.

hifi 87452
09-08-2014, 06:45 PM
Hey...

I didn`t want to start any Cable Discussion... on e HUG Member wanted to know my Opinion of Tellurium Cables... Everthing is subjectiv... We sell a lot of Neyton Cable and they are quite good. But that is not the Discussion. Sorry for that... i am very Emotional about the Hifi-Theme. In Germany unhappily it is not often like that....

Most of the Dealers sell very Expensive Machines which make no Music... We at hifi-bauernhof are trying to do that a little better... And we love Harbeth. So that is the Reason why we designed the new Stand. We designed it with everthing we thought about being a very good Underground for these wonderful Speakers...

All the experience we have with the Stands (and the Cables) depend on listening Tests, not on Marketing Things. If we would do marketing we should sell something that is more "famous" than Neyton. Or do you know Neyton??? We found it, tested it and liked it... thats all!!! No Marketing!!! But everyone who wants to hear this Cables has to try it... And build his own Opinion....

hifi 87452
09-08-2014, 06:59 PM
I can only talk about our way to get the things done. In the normal Household we think the Speakers are in a bookshelf or on the Floor.

If you ask me i`ll think that especially a Harbeth doesn`t sound better by hanging from the ceiling. I just can tell what we did... we listened, tested and in the end it was the Reference Stand who gave the Best Result.

hifi 87452
09-08-2014, 07:08 PM
Further on the speaker cable subject - the last time I bought speaker cable was for my Harbeth installation, it was a German cable, Cordial CLS 240. No audiophile claims about it, but very well constructed, with 2 well insulated, stranded copper cores of 4 sq mm thickness. With a very good quality black outer sheath, it is also very flexible to bend around tight corners.

I recently bought some cheap Indian cable that looks exactly the same, but the construction quality difference was very visible during cable dressing and termination. It took me a lot longer to strip and dress the cable ends for terminating it to the speaker/amp, and it doesn't flex as well. The number of strands are fewer than in the German cable.

I doubt that there is any difference in the sound, but if I were to buy again, I would buy Cordial for its ease of use. It isn't anywhere as expensive as the usual audiophile speaker cable, but I don't think its sound, construction quality or ability to be laid around corners for the thickness can be bettered by any.

I don`t know the Cordial Cables so i can`t tell something about them. In terms of Cables we think there is no better. It just has to fit with your System.
There are lots of things to combine, also the Cables... But if thick or not that is not so important... The quality and the workout of the Cable (flat-style or coax for example) may be important... But i think we are in a "Stand Discussion"... Sorry once more... i didn`t want to create a Cable Thread!!!!

The Next Week i am going on holiday, maybe i have no chance to reply the Posts... But i promise i do it when i am back.... So stay tuned...

chirhonix
09-08-2014, 09:57 PM
That would be the perfect chance to do a comparison against some lawn mower cable or typical 79 strand or the Cordial (2,40€/m) with the Harbeth Comparator.

Ned Mast
09-08-2014, 10:41 PM
I would be curious to know the procedures used by those who find one stand to sound better than another. How is this determined? (I would assume in some kind of A/B/C, etc. comparison).

I assume that the heights of the stands compared would have to be identical, and the distances of the speakers from the listening position identical. Are these preferences based upon truly rigorous testing procedures?

{Moderator's comments: I'm afraid not. Whilst one has to be impessed by the machining, the logistics, the human endeavour, the entrepreneurship ... what is missing (usually) is any sense of objective comparison. But who cares? Buy with your eyes .... (maybe?}

EricW
10-08-2014, 12:22 AM
I would be curious to know the procedures used by those who find one stand to sound better than another. How is this determined? (I would assume in some kind of A/B/C, etc. comparison).



Well, I don't want to join in on raining on hifi 87452's parade, because I sense genuine enthusiasm, not snake oil. At least with his stands one seems to be getting a solidly-built, environmentally-responsible, aesthetically-pleasing object. Believe what you like about the sonics, that strikes me as quite different from the cable racket, where at least some vendors of purportedly esoteric cable are really just putting fancy packaging onto a very cheap product, and selling it for many times its actual value.

That said, it strikes me that stands should be quite easy to compare, especially for a dealer. All one would need are two pairs of the same model Harbeths, the two pairs of different stands, and the Harbeth A/B box.

anonymous
10-08-2014, 09:47 AM
That said, it strikes me that stands should be quite easy to compare, especially for a dealer. All one would need are two pairs of the same model Harbeths, the two pairs of different stands, and the Harbeth A/B box.

I don't know that it would actually be that easy. As I imagine your proposed scenario, the speakers would be placed at different locations within the room, which would have a far more audible effect from the listener's perspective than the stands themselves.

If the stands were to be placed at the exact same position on the floor, for the purposes of the comparison, the time required for the switchover would exceed the limits of auditory memory.

I'm not sure the A/B box would be helpful in this situation.

We'll see what hifi 87452 has to share about the procedure used to determine that the stand he is selling is a masterpiece. There seem to be a lot of strong opinions as to which stand is best. Beyond proper height and intangibles like aesthetic satisfaction, I have yet to read or hear anything to indicate that anyone has attained perfection in the realm of speaker stand manufacturing. I'm not even sure what such a thing would mean.

Jeff_C
10-08-2014, 10:13 AM
That said, it strikes me that stands should be quite easy to compare, especially for a dealer. All one would need are two pairs of the same model Harbeths, the two pairs of different stands, and the Harbeth A/B box.

The speakers under comparison would then be in a different physical position.
There would be a "box on a stand" located fairly near to the source speaker, which would affect sound waves radiating from the source speaker.
Each set of speakers may differ (very slightly) within manufacturing tolerances.

If we use one set of speakers and change the stands for the comparative tests, then there is the problem of remembering the sound as the stands are changed.

My answer to this would be to buy stands that you like the look of, are reasonably priced, and most importantly, bring the speaker to the correct height for your listening position.

Kumar Kane
10-08-2014, 11:06 AM
My answer to this would be to buy stands that you like the look of, are reasonably priced, and most importantly, bring the speaker to the correct height for your listening position.
Sounds sensible.
It seems to me though that there are two opposite view points as to stand construction principles. One is to make them as light as possible, similar also to the stands that I think are sold in Japan by Harbeth dealers. These German stands seem to follow this line of thinking.

The other is to make them heavy, mass load them at home to increase weight further, and perhaps spike them to the floor. By now surely there would be some knowledgeable assessment on which works best? Or even to say, both do just as well?

My other question is - would these principles apply equally to other make stand mounted speakers utilising different enclosure construction methods, other than the thin wall style Harbeth uses?

A.S.
10-08-2014, 11:11 AM
Sounds sensible.
It seems to me though that there are two opposite view points as to stand construction principles. One is to make them as light as possible, similar also to the stands that I think are sold in Japan by Harbeth dealers. These German stands seem to follow this line of thinking.

The other is to make them heavy, mass load them at home to increase weight further, and perhaps spike them to the floor. By now surely there would be some knowledgeable assessment on which works best? Or even to say, both do just as well?

My other question is - would these principles apply equally to other make stand mounted speakers utilising different enclosure construction methods, other than the thin wall style Harbeth uses?Forget all about some kind of synergy between the 'thin wall' cabinets and the stands. For a start, the M30/M30.1, and for that matter the P3ESR, are really not thin-wall cabinets as the C7/SHL5/M40 are: they are both relatively rigid boxes.

This stand/cabinet issue is all in the mind. I'm sure of that because an accelerometer on the cabinet would surely reveal almost no energy leaking trough the cabinet and being available to interact with the stand. Select the stand primarily on the basis of height, then relative inertness when flicked with a pen or similar, them costmetics, then price and availability. Don't forget that if you have childen and animals that has to be given top priority when selecting a stand.

hifi 87452
10-08-2014, 11:24 AM
Hello HUGs....

Why should a comparison of Stands be difficult??? We have to compare Products every Day as a Dealer.This must not be just Speakers or Stands. We compare all other Product.

When you are a Dealer the passes by NO SINGLE WEEK when a Distribution comes and tells you they invented something completely NEW. So if we are interested in this Product we order on Piece, burn it in for minimum 200 hours and then we do a comparison against another Product of ours.

And so we did it with the Stands. We did a design, listened, changed something, listenend... and in the final Step we took 2 or 3 different Stands (from other Producers)
and did long listening Test. But the Test was so clear you wouldn`t have to test hours... just minutes!

When you visit us under www.hifi-bauernhof.de you can watch the Studios... We got 7 of them. They are all acoustically treated and show the Difference between 2 Products.

Of couse we do the comparison in one Room, on one and the same System and at the same listening Position... We are not starters.. We do that for 35 Years.. so we know what we do... believe me. Not much Dealers in Germany do know what they do (we get told this by our customers!!! We will not allow to say something like this.)

Everyone has the possibility to order a Reference Stand to test for his own. We only love this Speakers and we think there are not much Speakers which are worth it doing a Stand Design.... Most of the Speakers don`t show so much Music as the Harbeth... but you are here.. so you know it!!!

But Comparison is one of our daily things... And sometimes the Differences are so big you will not have to go back 2 Times.... believe me!! BUT: This works only perfect when all around the System is as perfect as possible. Every one has to do his homework. And we do our homework at hifi-bauernhof.

hifi 87452
10-08-2014, 11:36 AM
Forget all about some kind of synergy between the 'thin wall' cabinets and the stands. For a start, the M30/M30.1, and for that matter the P3ESR, are really not thin-wall cabinets as the C7/SHL5/M40 are: they are both relatively rigid boxes.

This stand/cabinet issue is all in the mind. I'm sure of that because an accelerometer on the cabinet would surely reveal almost no energy leaking trough the cabinet and being available to interact with the stand. Select the stand primarily on the basis of height, then relative inertness when flicked with a pen or similar, them costmetics, then price and availability. Don't forget that if you have childen and animals that has to be given top priority when selecting a stand.


Hello Mr. Shaw... nice to see you in the Discussion! Maybe we can send you Reference Stand for testing in your Rooms.(??)

I do have a 3 Year old daughter too, and the Stand are very well-designed so they have a perfect stand. We love the Harbeth Speakers like i said often.
And why should we make this effort of designing and testing (and distributing) when we just could sell any Stand on the Market??

We love that Speakers, and we NEVER got out more of them. Especialy the 5 and the 40 and the Monitor 30.1 sound unbelivable on our Stand.

For us at hifi-bauernhof it is a Heart-Thing to do this.... Because we are interested in Music and not in Marketing.. Just like Harbeth....

We would be happy when you one Time listen your Harbeth on a Reference Stand!
If you want one pair... Connect us.. We send a pair for testing...

hifi 87452
10-08-2014, 11:44 AM
Sounds sensible. It seems to me though that there are two opposite view points as to stand construction principles. One is to make them as light as possible, similar also to the stands that I think are sold in Japan by Harbeth dealers. These German stands seem to follow this line of thinking.

The other is to make them heavy, mass load them at home to increase weight further, and perhaps spike them to the floor. By now surely there would be some knowledgeable assessment on which works best? Or even to say, both do just as well?

My other question is - would these principles apply equally to other make stand mounted speakers utilising different enclosure construction methods, other than the thin wall style Harbeth uses?

When we compared the Stands we had a heavy Model too. Especially with the Harbeth we found out they do not sound so open and fast. It felt like they are a little bit slower and not so agile. Maybe there are some listeners who love that. We love the Speed in the Music, we love the wonderful Timing they have, and we love the silence between the Tones.. so you need a Speaker ( and a System of course too) which is fast to bring out every detail (without sizzeling or beeing nervous!!)

Depending on that we use Hifi-furniture too which is light and strong... The Amplifiers and Turntables profite of that too...

In my private System i tested a lot with mass. I didn`t reach the perfect musicality... I work with hifi for ca. 30 Years...

A.S.
10-08-2014, 01:02 PM
When we compared the Stands we had a heavy Model too. Especially with the Harbeth we found out they do not sound so open and fast. It felt like they are a little bit slower and not so agile. Maybe there are some listeners who love that. We love the Speed in the Music, we love the wonderful Timing they have, and we love the silence between the Tones.. so you need a Speaker ( and a System of course too) which is fast to bring out every detail (without sizzeling or beeing nervous!!)

Depending on that we use Hifi-furniture too which is light and strong... The Amplifiers and Turntables profite of that too...

In my private System i tested a lot with mass. I didn`t reach the perfect musicality... I work with hifi for ca. 30 Years...Hello my good friends in Germany,

I very much admire your new stands. I like the look of them, and the family style. I hope that they are a huge commercial success for you if they are as good as you say.

Judging by the pictures, I would be proud to have my speakers sitting on them. Just out of curiosity, when you swap to other stands, are they to the mm the same height? Are they in exacatly the same place in the room? How many minutes does it take to swap from the other stands to yours?

That's my endorsement, for what it is worth. The rest I leave up to you and I thank you for your support of Harbeth speakers literally and metaphorically!

Jeff_C
10-08-2014, 03:44 PM
...And sometimes the Differences are so big you will not have to go back 2 Times.... believe me!! BUT: This works only perfect when all around the System is as perfect as possible. Every one has to do his homework. And we do our homework at hifi-bauernhof...

Quoted above is the perfect "escape clause". So if I do not hear the HUGE difference with the reference stand it is because my "whole system" somehow lets the stand down so it cannot perform optimally.

Tell me another one, like what amp and other components do I need to own to get the stand working optimally. Maybe I need to refit my listening room to match your testing "studio". It ain't going to happen.

EricW
10-08-2014, 05:46 PM
I don't know that it would actually be that easy. As I imagine your proposed scenario, the speakers would be placed at different locations within the room, which would have a far more audible effect from the listener's perspective than the stands themselves.



I'm not sure that's necessarily true. If the room were sufficiently large, and the speakers away from side walls, I envisage two pairs of speakers, sitting on Stand A Left and Stand B Left, side by side; and then Stand A Right and Stand B Right, on the other side.

Each left and right speaker would have another speaker next to it, and equidistant from it, so the only thing that would actually change at the point of switchover would be a slight shift in the stereo image.

As to Jeff's point about manufacturing tolerances making two different pairs of the same speaker sound different, c'mon, we're talking about Harbeths here! Anyway, that's easily controlled for by measurement in advance and even subjectively by running the test first with two pairs of the same stand.

I completely understand Alan's argument about sonic differences being a priori impossible, but the test has been done with amplifiers often enough - why not with stands too?

hifi 87452
10-08-2014, 06:43 PM
Quoted above is the perfect "escape clause". So if I do not hear the HUGE difference with the reference stand it is because my "whole system" somehow lets the stand down so it cannot perform optimally.

Tell me another one, like what amp and other components do I need to own to get the stand working optimally. Maybe I need to refit my listening room to match your testing "studio". It ain't going to happen.

No sorrow.... The Difference will be shown no matter which room or which System you use.

What i wanted to say (with my incomplete English) is that differences are larger the better the System is. Better Systems show better improvements.
Nice Weekend

ccyork
31-08-2014, 05:26 PM
Here are some pictures of our new stands for recently acquired C7s. They are custom handmade solid cherry and based on the design shown here (http://audio-heritage.jp/HARBETH/speaker/superhl5.html). They are 19" high and the top is 12"x12". We had them made a little wider than the C7s for added stability, and to make them more versatile in case we ever want to use them for something else.

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