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Champion
08-11-2009, 07:05 AM
Hi all,

What do you use for coupling the Harbeth speaker to the stand? I have got my new Harbeth Compact 7ES-3 and have a pair of Lovan stands. However, the top frame is slightly uneven, higher on one corner and I found that one corner of the speakers are not sitting on the Herbie's fat dot (which I use for coupling the speakers to the stands at the moment).

Do you have any recommendation for a soft 'feet' (more compliance) to take care of uneven surface? Anyone using Brightstar Isonode for speakers?

Thanks.

denjo
08-11-2009, 08:10 AM
Blutack should do the trick!

Champion
08-11-2009, 08:15 AM
Do you mean blu tak between the stand and the fat dot or simply use blu tak between the speakers and the stands? I have heard that blu tak can damage the wood finish?

keithwwk
08-11-2009, 08:23 AM
Hi Champion,
I had experienced blue tak damage the woodfinish. The blue tak tend to suck out water and dry the spot. After sometime, it is hard to remove or worst, peel off the veneer.

I will use thick cardboard or folded paper put underneat to balance it.

Jmohd
08-11-2009, 09:18 AM
Hi Champion,

This wiil do the trick. It work for me or something similar :)

http://site.innovationestore.com/images/enlarged.php?id=70070936094

Teuton
09-11-2009, 06:37 PM
Blutack should do the trick!

Do NOT use blutack.

I was trying to remove the base of a floorstanding speaker that was coupled by blutack, and it literally removed the entire bottom veneer---

hifi_dave
09-11-2009, 07:04 PM
Do NOT use blutack.

I was trying to remove the base of a floorstanding speaker that was coupled by blutack, and it literally removed the entire bottom veneer---

I think it depends on the amount used. As a dealer, I have been using BluTak since it was first invented, which is probably thirty years or more. During that time we have placed and removed various speakers on stands hundreds of thousands of times and only once have we had a small section of veneer lifted.

We never use more than a pea sized blob on each corner and use the same pieces for years without changing. Much larger pieces might well be a problem.

keithwwk
10-11-2009, 12:45 AM
I agree bluetack is good to use if not leave the speaker on it for long time. Leave the speakers on it over a yr, the tack will really dry up and stick hard on the veneer hardly remove.

I think champion is having uneven surface on this stand that causing 1 corner not touching bottom of his speaker. If using blue tack, he need to use big amount to even it..not practical.

Champion
10-11-2009, 09:13 AM
Yes, that's right. Also, I have used blu tak on other speakers before but I don't feel blu tak give you a consistent/controlled gap between the speaker and the stand. It is possible to have the speaker touching the stand, which may affect the sound / results in scratches. That is why I am looking at more compliant feets like the brightstar.

Maybe I will stick with the fat dot and use some felt/tape to fill the gap as others have suggested. Thanks for your help.

I am still interested in experience from others on feets with more compliance/softer.

hifi_dave
10-11-2009, 10:41 AM
Black Ravioli. Stunningly good.

Not feet but small pads.

A.S.
10-11-2009, 11:10 AM
Please be very careful about using Blutak. Once we were presented with a customer's situation where he used four rather large blobs of Blutak to affix his speakers to his stand. The speakers sat there undisturbed for several years. When he did attempt to lift them off, the suction was so great between the Blutak and the cabinet that it ripped some veneer off.

General advice is here (http://www.harbeth.co.uk/usergroup/showthread.php?t=373) - see section 12.

garmtz
10-11-2009, 12:08 PM
What if the speakers tend to 'rock'? The Skylan stands have 4 rubber pads that you can affix to the top of the stand. However, the glue tends to disintegrate and this causes the pads to loosen and come off. This makes the speakers rock on the stand. This can't be a good thing.

Also, having the speakers perfectly level must surely be an advantage?

A.S.
10-11-2009, 12:38 PM
Personally it doesn't trouble me if the speakers are not perfectly level. During the entire design process I pay no attention whatever to the stand material, brand, construction method or interface between the speakers and the stand. All I focus on is the stand height. The speakers are just plonked onto the top of the stand and that's it. You of course are free to experiment, but this issue is not on my radar as a super-sensitive one.

That said, the REALLY important issue is 'are the stands safe' - safe from toppling over and safe from injuring a child or animal. All other issues are of much lesser importance.

keithwwk
10-11-2009, 12:42 PM
I suggest using antislip mat in between your skyland and the speakers surely your speakers can not rock and very firm and stable too.

Ned Mast
10-11-2009, 01:01 PM
Terrycloth towels work fine between my M40s and their stands.

keithwwk
13-11-2009, 06:44 AM
Hi all,

Precaution, one of my friend told me he had very bad experience with the non-slip mats which will stain and cause a lattice pattern on the veneer over time.

Cheers~~

musicquest
07-12-2009, 12:40 AM
Hi all,
I've been using Herbie's fat dots, 3 per skylan stand. It's a very inexpensive tweek that sounds
better than the furnished neoprene corner dots, and much better than blu tak.... plus, they are easy to experiment with, being taller than the furnished skylan dots.....

musicquest
04-01-2010, 12:38 AM
Big news, I've been debunked by my listening panel!

Actually, they at first preferred small oak buttons between speaker and stand over the Herbies Big Dots. Then I tried the 3 magnets per stand that Noel and his friend Moray thought to be great, which when I first tried them I didn't think too much of them. Well, to debunk my debunkers, I placed them as Noel detailed, one on each rod and one in the back middle, with black electricians tape over them to snug them down. Instantly the clarity level went through the roof, and the bass much better, as Noel claimed. Thanks Noel!

If you have Skylan stands you definitely owe it to yourself to try it.

Take care
MQ

P.C.
04-01-2010, 03:50 AM
These are the stands you need next.... I little expensive though!
http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue47/acoustic_revive.htm

musicquest
04-01-2010, 05:44 AM
Would be lovely, I'm sure....
at least they solved Jeff Day's 40.1 dilemna.....if only I could have such a dilemna....

Thanos
04-01-2010, 07:54 AM
Would be lovely, I'm sure....
at least they solved Jeff Day's 40.1 dilemna.....if only I could have such a dilemna....

Hi All,

What about those half-ball shaped silicone pads, self adhesive but non surface spoiling, small sized, that they use to put them in/on shelf edges (you know, anti-slipping, against noise and preventing wood to wood direct contact).
They have a very small footprint, think they wouldn't influence the sound...
I 'm using them 3-4 years now, fitted on the 4 stand edges, not a single problem with stands' or speakers' finish.

Cheers,
Thanos

tamule
08-05-2010, 09:19 PM
I use Acoustech Speaker Dots on DIY stands. You could add an extra Dot at the low spot.
enjoy,tom

hifi_dave
09-05-2010, 11:14 AM
Depends on the stands. With some you need to decouple - these are usually mass loaded. With light, open frames you might need to couple, allowing energy to dissipate quickly. The Something Solid stands use carbon fibre pucks on top of the uprights for rapid dissipation away to the floor.

Horses for courses. Just experiment but don't lose any sleep.

tozen
09-05-2010, 04:41 PM
I have found White tack preferable to blue tack. Think it is a bit less adhesive, not just different colour. Currently using small blob of White tack on corners of stands, then a little bit of bubble wrap between tack and speaker. Seems to be a combo that works well.

lucho
17-05-2010, 05:25 AM
I am Lucho, from Lima, Peru. What about using brass cones for my shl5. I am thinking about it. Whar do you think ?

Takis
17-05-2010, 07:28 PM
I use the small half-ball silicon self-adhesive pads as Thanos does. Their diameter is 0,5 cm and the speaker is like floating 2 - 3 mm over the stand. I use 3 of them in every corner (12 per speaker). The speaker is firmly attached by its weight to the stand, doesn't slip and the low frequencies are very good. Tuneful, clear and solid.

ical
20-09-2010, 09:42 AM
I'm using TAOC TITE-13GS between my SHL-5 and Sound Anchor stand for years. It improve on bass and detail too.

http://www.taoc.gr.jp/insulator.html#spike

Jmohd
21-09-2010, 02:22 PM
I'm using TAOC TITE-13GS between my SHL-5 and Sound Anchor stand for years. It improve on bass and detail too.

http://www.taoc.gr.jp/insulator.html#spike

Yes, I'm also using them on Skyland stand (old version). The insulator shown is the new version.

kittykat
22-09-2010, 04:29 AM
Just experiment but don't lose any sleep.

For the first time in speaker ownership, since using a pair of SHL5’s, ive not bothered about tweaks and improvements, equipment, connections or having to frequently adjust tone controls or volume etc. Imo, I seriously doubt that “tweaking” Harbeths will get them to perform any better, as it appears to sound inherently “right” and that the crucial aspects of making them sound balanced, natural, fatigue free have already been addressed and ready to be appreciated straight out of the box.

I am saying this as I have recently been toying with another pair of speakers and just cannot get them to sound right. Im getting up to position them, adjust the tone controls, the volume and am finding myself doing this for almost every different recording!

The way the SHL5’s tolerate different volume settings, speaker placement is really quite an achievement, and don’t feel that putting something under it will take it to a whole different level.

T.W.
22-09-2010, 05:44 PM
Depends on the stands. With some you need to decouple - these are usually mass loaded. With light, open frames you might need to couple, allowing energy to dissipate quickly. The Something Solid stands use carbon fibre pucks on top of the uprights for rapid dissipation away to the floor.

Horses for courses. Just experiment but don't lose any sleep.

My problem with this discussion is that I don't understand which energy you are talking about. In my understanding the energy can only come from pressure or movement / friction. At the corners of a box there is almost no pressure and no movement. Ok, there may be some micro vibrations but if there are some rubber dampers or similar then this should be enought to decouple from the stands. The stands itself may be an issue. Ringing in metal stands. But this is not a problem of energy from the speakers - it's a resonance issue. I prefer DIY wooden stands. Nothing to improve in my case.

Can you help me to understand better what to mean?

T.W.

hifi_dave
22-09-2010, 05:57 PM
I'm no engineer but I understand that the movement of the speaker cone and the air within the cabinet create vibrations or energy which have to go somewhere. If it is a stand-mount speaker, some of that energy goes into the stand and thence to the floor.

Some stands rely on mass and some on light rigidity for their performance. My findings are as above.

EricW
22-09-2010, 10:31 PM
I think I started reading about this idea 10 or 15 years ago, i.e. that light but rigid speaker stands were "better" than heavy and rigid high-mass stands (usually lead or sand-filled) because the lighter stand would allow the energy to "drain" out of the speaker and would not itself "store" energy.

I think this idea is intuitively appealing because we can form a mental picture of what the process might be. Not surprisingly, I read that people find the light stands "quick" and "lively" and "dynamic" whereas the heavier stands are "slow" "massy" "bass-heavy" and so on.

But I really wonder if there's any rational basis for this. I don't doubt that listeners comparing the two types of stand hear a difference, or think they do, but I wonder if there would be any perceptible or meaningful difference if the visual element were removed from the equation. The fact that we can construct a mental explanation for what's happening - in this case, reinforced by a visual impression - doesn't necessarily mean that what we think is happening is actually happening.

A.S.
23-09-2010, 10:01 AM
I think I started reading ... that light but rigid speaker stands were "better" than heavy and rigid high-mass stands (usually lead or sand-filled) because the lighter stand would allow the energy to "drain" out of the speaker ... I think this idea is intuitively appealing because we can form a mental picture of what the process might be ...I wish someone would tackle this subject by measurement - that is, objectively - to reach a definitive position on the light/massive stand issue. Personally, I find it hard to believe that there is sufficient energy at the point of interface between the stand and the speaker cabinet to couple them together such that the stand can make a big difference. So what else could be happening? How about vibration not by the direct coupling to the speaker cabinet but by virtue of the sound wave from the bass/mid drive unit flowing across the surface of the stand (as it does every other object in the room) and setting-off sympathetic vibration in the stand. It's possible - especially so if the stand is tubular and not filled; the same situation as blowing across a wine bottle compared with stuffing it with some absorbent material.

To quote what we say in the Basic Facts (http://www.harbeth.co.uk/usergroup/showthread.php?373-Basic-facts-about-Harbeths-at-home&p=2902#post2902) section:
"7. Harbeth speakers do not need exotic stands. You can use wooden stands or metal or plastic stands. We use them all through development and critical listening. Distrust rumours that 'Harbeth's only work with 'xyz stands'. It is entirely your free choice, what takes your fancy, fits in with your furnishings and budget. If all you have available to get you going is something as basic as the IKEA plant pot stands (even used during the design (http://www.harbeth.co.uk/usergroup/showthread.php?p=2920#post2920) of the Compact 7ES3 - see picture) or house bricks or telephone directories. The key point is to raise the tweeter to about ear level. The Skylan stands are an excellent value-for-money choice that we have used at exhibitions ourselves. Filling stands is your choice".
I have also said that a pile of telephone directories can be used, although cosmetically and from the point of stability are a poor idea.

Suggestion for applying some science, measurement and analysis: does anyone have an old pick-up cartridge that they'd be willing to sacrifice as a point-contact transducer? Then it would be possible to actually listen to the 'sound' of various stands. Of course, it would be essential to ensure that the same contact pressure and alignment was applied to every stand under test i.e. to remove variables associated with the measurement process itself.

hifi_dave
23-09-2010, 11:10 AM
I've listened to and compared hundreds of different stands over the years to reach my own conclusions. I haven't got a scientific answer but I know what I hear and would suggest that anyone interested should try the available stands themselves.

Alan,

I have various 'old' cartridges sitting what do you need ?