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Brian7500
13-06-2010, 02:26 PM
Which speaker cables do You use on Your Harbeths?

I an very fond of my Kimber 8TC bur am not sure if they will do the trick with Harbeth speakers.

I remember having seen a picture from some hifi show where a system with M40.1s where wired with Kimber.

What are Your experiences?

Don Leman
13-06-2010, 02:38 PM
I've heard a story (not sure if it's true) that Alan once used the cord from an electric lawn mower at one of the electronic shows. I've got a couple of those in the garage my wife damaged with our hedge clippers. I've always been tempted to trim them up and give them a try. They have 3 wires though and I've never been sure whether to use one on + and two on - or the other way around. I guess I could leave one not connected at all. Oh dear, decisions, decisions. I actually have two damaged chords, one yellow and the other orange. I wonder which one will sound better ;) ?

Brian7500
13-06-2010, 04:25 PM
I've heard a story (not sure if it's true) that Alan once used the cord from an electric lawn mower at one of the electronic shows. I've got a couple of those in the garage my wife damaged with our hedge clippers. I've always been tempted to trim them up and give them a try. They have 3 wires though and I've never been sure whether to use one on + and two on - or the other way around. I guess I could leave one not connected at all. Oh dear, decisions, decisions. I actually have two damaged chords, one yellow and the other orange. I wonder which one will sound better ;) ?

Well You try that. I think I'll stick with my Kimbers then.

Anybody else who has an opinion on this subject? :-)

Rapid 17
13-06-2010, 08:05 PM
I use Kimber speaker cables with my SHL5's and the sound is superb.

Geoff.

Brian7500
13-06-2010, 08:12 PM
I use Kimber speaker cables with my SHL5's and the sound is superb.

Geoff.

Interesting... Which Kimbers do You use?

Bodfish
13-06-2010, 08:43 PM
DNM Stereo Solid Core for me.

douga
13-06-2010, 10:34 PM
I use Chord Carnival Silver Screen - I think it was fairly inexpensive (though it's been a few years since I bought it), and it sounds fine. But if you have Kimber, I'm sure that'll work too.

kittykat
14-06-2010, 01:25 AM
foils, high surface area to volume - Xindax FS1.0's. Does it make a perceivable difference. Can' t tell for sure. Come to think of it, they might not be up to the job of powering a lawnmover. It'd just heat up, in which case it would make the lawnmover cable a better conductor.

Thanos
14-06-2010, 06:03 AM
Kimber 12TC. Gave back two lengths of 8TC I had from old set up (one of them unused), and got this one for free by the local distributor. No detectable differences at first listenings, some tiny ones after careful comparison (quick swap test before the exchange). I think Alan's comments have been proven to be quite true at last...
Regards,
Thanos

Rapid 17
14-06-2010, 11:23 AM
Interesting... Which Kimbers do You use?

I bought them a few years ago and I believe they are 4 PR. When I bought them I bought four separate lengths and bi-wired to each speaker.

Geoff.

Labarum
14-06-2010, 02:32 PM
I've heard a story (not sure if it's true) that Alan once used the cord from an electric lawn mower at one of the electronic shows.

It was Peter Walker with a pair of his Quad electrostic speakers.

I'm sure Peter and Alan would agree cables obey the laws of physics and have no magical qualities. It would be a strange cable that had such resistance, capacitance and inductance to have any audible effect of a pair of loudspeakers.

Buy some decent copper wire and have done with it!

garmtz
16-06-2010, 06:13 PM
Audioquest Type 8

Paul G Smith
13-09-2010, 01:34 PM
I'm sure Peter and Alan would agree cables obey the laws of physics and have no magical qualities. It would be a strange cable that had such resistance, capacitance and inductance to have any audible effect of a pair of loudspeakers.

Buy some decent copper wire and have done with it!

I use VERY SPECIAL SEVENTYNINE STRAND TRANSPARENT (insulation) copper (I think) cable from a PROPER HIFI shop.
No more cooker mains cable for me, oh no.
It has :
a) LOW resistance (79 bits of copper)
b) LOW inductance (as long as it's not wrapped round and round the chairs).
c) LOW capacitance (I didn't ask for high capacity cable)

Sounds just the same as the cooker cable as long as I make sure lots of the little slivers of coppery are fastened to the binding posts.

macraddy
13-09-2010, 04:02 PM
Auditorium 23 throughout for me. Works beautifully!

honmanm
14-09-2010, 09:07 AM
Personal opinion - where cables have an effect on the sound, it is mostly their interaction with the amplifier rather than the speakers. Some amplifiers are designed with particular cable impedance in mind and unusually high capacitance or inductance may affect the performance or even stability of the amplifier (Naim and NVA for example). A quick read of the amp's manual can eliminate a lot of worry.

I'm using solid copper "anti-cables" lent by a friend a couple of years ago, they work well but being stiff are a bit of a pain to organise. The friend prefers his Kimber but from what I can remember of a subjective comparison we made at the time what little difference there was (about 0.1HBJ, IIRC) was purely presentation. He was using a Myst TMA3 amplifier and Musical Fidelity MC4 speakers.

Just for laughs, I compared 1.5mm sq. solid-core twin-and-earth mains wire to the anti-cables. Using an NVA AP20 (a cable sensitive amp) and Harbeth P3ESRs the anti-cables definitely sounded cleaner (~ 0.5 HBJ), the dielectric effect of the twin-and-earth's PVC insulation was probably responsible (also bear in mind different wire gauge, anti-cables are something like 2.5mm sq. ). But twin-and-earth was not at all *bad*.

Future experiments in cheapskate cableology may include silicone-insulated fire alarm cable and Maplins transformer wire.

Drdennis
14-09-2010, 12:38 PM
Audioquest Bedrock with my Compact 7 ES3's. I'm thinking of trying Kimber 8.

KT88
14-09-2010, 10:02 PM
As Honman states above, there's likely more going on between the amplifier and speaker cable than with the speaker and the cable. As such, I use Quicksilver speaker cables to interface with my Quicksilver amplifiers. Mike Sanders, the designer/engineer at Quicksilver is, much like Alan Shaw, a no BS kind of guy who designed the cables to interface nicely with his amplifiers. They're cheap and they sound good. Period.

keithwwk
15-09-2010, 04:28 AM
I am using more than 10yrs old MIT Terminator2 single wire (bought it used) for both c7 and shl5 and sound great.

keithwwk
23-09-2010, 01:47 PM
I read Kimber name in this thread..I think this link is useful.

http://sites.google.com/site/isthistherealstuff/kimberkable

Drdennis
24-09-2010, 11:52 AM
Thank you very much for this information. Buying from a reputable dealer is your best protection.

Thanos
25-09-2010, 09:59 AM
I read Kimber name in this thread..I think this link is useful.

http://sites.google.com/site/isthistherealstuff/kimberkable

Yes, it is very useful info. Fakes' "industry" has gone too far... Drdennis is quite right!

denjo
26-09-2010, 08:39 AM
Wow, this is indeed an eye opener! I wonder how many other well known brands are victims of fraudulent fakes! I know that Oyaide also has counterfeits! It is scary how closely the fakes resemble the real McCoys and unless you knew the tell-tale signs, it would well nigh be quite impossible to distinguish one form the other!

P.C.
26-09-2010, 04:28 PM
Don't they all sound the same anywayhttp://www.harbeth.co.uk/usergroup/images/icons/icon11.png

Davef
17-03-2011, 07:01 PM
I am English, from Coventry originally, now living in US - I have just purchased my first pair of Harbeth Speakers (7ES-3). I think I have narrowed speakers down to QED! I would love an opinion on a couple of choices:

QED Silver Anniversary, QED Revelation or basic QED 79 Strand Classic?
The will be connected to a Leben 300XS or maybe my Nain XS sometimes!


Thanks,

DF

GregD
17-03-2011, 08:59 PM
Congratulations on your C7s. I used to have a Leben CS300XS too. Must be a great combination. You ask about QED speaker cable, have you looked through the HUG for advice? Alan Shaw's opinion is stated often around the site. Here is a quote from him regarding cable for Harbeths...

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
6. Harbeth speakers do not need fancy cable. Anything available that is reasonably thick will work OK. QED 79 strand (see attached picture) or 5A electrical flex will get you going. Simple, un-cool standard flex is all you need. Avoid exotic cables with strange electrical characteristics.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

From my own careful reading of Alan's postings, I can gather that he (as the designer) does not consider any improvements to be possible from fancy cables. If they could improve the sound he would know and say so, wouldn't he?

I use Kimber 4PR and that is likely my final cable, I won't spend money on the stuff anymore so I'm sticking with what I've got for the long haul. Your Leben amp and Harbeth C7s, not to mention your room, will have such a disproportionate effect on the sound you achieve that a bit of speaker wire of decent thickness will not rock the boat to any discernable degree.

Go with the QED 79 strand and I'm sure you'll be fine.

Davef
18-03-2011, 01:45 AM
Thanks GregD - all three of them are not expensive, probably $100 different's between them all! I just thought that if it was better coated to protect the copper and maybe prevent it from deteriorating, and not because I think it would sound better! but I think you are probably correct, and so is Alan...

Thanks - DF

Davef
18-03-2011, 03:58 PM
Just to let you know, I went with Atlas Hyper 2 Speaker cables - prety inexpensive, about $200 for 3m terminated; I will let you know how they are...

GregD
18-03-2011, 04:55 PM
Just to let you know, I went with Atlas Hyper 2 Speaker cables - prety inexpensive, about $200 for 3m terminated; I will let you know how they are...

Sounds like a good solidly-made cable Davef, are they using spades or plugs? I prefer plugs - easier to remove if necessary.

PS. I've just bought a Leben pre/power. It's really nice stuff isn't it?

Davef
18-03-2011, 05:19 PM
Hi - it is using plugs, prefer them myself also! They are terrific, and I enjoy mine very much, I also enjoy my Naim XS, but the Leben are special, and very well made... The Pre/Power must sound fantastic?

DF

GregD
18-03-2011, 07:18 PM
Well, I used to have a CS300XS and it was indeed very listenable and enjoyable. Frank Sinatra and other vocalists and jazz groups from the 50s and 60s on Capitol sounded the best ever through that amplifier and my old ProAcs (now using LS3/5a)

The Leben poweramp is going to be even better I hope, I've ordered a new Leben RS28CX but they have to build it in Japan first! Very exciting, after that I'm probably going to get the P3ESR, or maybe the C7 (like you) if they will work in my very small room (3.4m by 2.8m).

However, the P3 has just been mentioned in the Newsletter winning the Stereo Sound Japan Grand Prix Award and I'm so impressed and pleased that I think it just has to be the P3ESR for me now. As I say, I've had LS3/5a and small ProAcs for years, so I know what to expect (generally) from a mini-monitor.

You must be getting great music with those amplifiers and the C7, Great choices all round!

coredump
19-03-2011, 11:01 AM
I'm a QED79 strand user. Recently, have tried the Neotech silver and copper UPOFCC. it is a complete waste of time and $$$. but i found out that silver on +ve terminal copper on -ve terminal is different from silver on -ve terminal copper on +ve terminal.

Have a Leben CS300 but it is in the storeroom cos it is so hot a few minutes into music.although it sounds good but the hot knobs, the heat generated is terrible. wonder how long the component can tolerate / survive with the heat

Gan CK
19-03-2011, 02:15 PM
I am using something similar to QED 79 strand (perhaps even cheaper than 79 strand) but my SHL-5 sounds excellent nonetheless. I have a couple of more 'exotic' cables but they all reside in the store room. The inexpensive cable is more than enough.

A.S.
22-03-2011, 03:10 PM
I am using something similar to QED 79 strand (perhaps even cheaper than 79 strand) but my SHL-5 sounds excellent nonetheless. I have a couple of more 'exotic' cables but they all reside in the store room. The inexpensive cable is more than enough.I've taken apart a voice coil and this may interest you ....

Here (http://www.harbeth.co.uk/usergroup/showthread.php?1189-The-reality-of-loudspeaker-cable-....-the-one-you-cannot-play-with-....&p=13504#post13504)

ookiedukes
22-04-2011, 01:47 PM
Hi, I know this debate has and will go on forever. I find it odd that Harbeth indicates that you don't need any special exotic speaker wire, that sonically it makes no difference. Yet they offer the P3ESR SE with Special Oxygen Free wire.

Why is it Special in the speaker, but not Special out?
I don't think you can hear the difference between a SE and a standard P3ESR, or can you?
Is the standard speaker wire in my soon to arrive P3ESR inferior?

In my reading on this forum, I read somewhere that a old electric cord from a electric lawn mower was used at a demo as a speaker cable.

Im confused.

STHLS5
22-04-2011, 02:03 PM
Hi, I know this debate has and will go on forever. I find it odd that Harbeth indicates that you don't need any special exotic speaker wire, that sonically it makes no difference. Yet they offer the P3ESR SE with Special Oxygen Free wire.

Why is it Special in the speaker, but not Special out?
I don't think you can hear the difference between a SE and a standard P3ESR, or can you?
Is the standard speaker wire in my soon to arrive P3ESR inferior?

In my reading on this forum, I read somewhere that a old electric cord from a electric lawn mower was used at a demo as a speaker cable.

Im confused.

If you search the forum you will find the answers. In short, cosmetic changes on the request of customers. ST

HUG-1
22-04-2011, 04:16 PM
To reiterate .....

Harbeth is a for-profit commercial business. If a distributor insists that for his market he must have fancy internal cable, particular veneers, strange labelling or any other aspect that we do not think will effect performance plus or minus, we will cost it. If he is willing to pay and there is negligible disruption to production we are pleased to offer the service to satisfy the user. It does not matter what we, Harbeth UK or indeed any of our distributors personally think about the merits of such a mod. All that matters is what the customer believes offers a benefit and is willing to pay for. We at Harbeth UK do not sit around dreaming up ideas. They come exclusively from our sales channels. We periodically review what is or is not do-able. If we can do it, we will.

If you want pink veneer we will cost it. If you want double-thick cartons that is also possible. But we will not change the drive units or crossover as these are the core of the speaker.

That is our position and has been for over twenty years. This was thrashed out last summer (as a result of which Moderation was turned on across the HUG) and there is absolutely nothing more to add. End of discussion.

ookiedukes
24-04-2011, 12:31 AM
Hi,
Thanks for the explanation.
I didn't mean to ruffle your feathers. I'm a soon to be Harbeth customer, and I didn't realize this was a sensitive subject.

{Moderators comment: no problem. You really do not need to worry about cables inside or outside your speakers.}

HOLBERG
16-05-2011, 10:13 AM
I have had Atlas Ascent 2.0 and was very satisfied with these cables. I just wanted to try DNM Stereo Solid Core cables for fun because of the positive reviews and to put my curiosity at ease. DNM isnīt costly at all so an investment didnīt blow up the bank. Could they really be that good at "low-fi prices"? Well, well. I became so impressed with DNM performance that I sold my Atlas Cables and also bought DNM interconnects!!!!

Cables donīt have to cost a fortune to sound VERY good. DNM proves that in a very convincing way.

(My speakers are the SHL5)

cello
06-06-2011, 11:07 PM
QED 79 Strand Speaker Cable seems to be the recommended wire of choice for Harbeths. This cable doesn't seem to be available in North America. Does anyone have an idea of what an equivalent would be in North America?

Paul G Smith
07-06-2011, 11:37 AM
Have a look at :http://www.monoprice.com/products/subdepartment.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10239#1023901
12 gauge multistranded OFC. It looks from the picture, specification and price to be very similar to my 69 strand stuff.

Haligonian
10-06-2011, 10:56 PM
Just to add something....QED 79 Strand is available in North America from Brooklyn Audio in Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada. The owner (a Harbeth dealer), is also extremely informative.

pablozz
05-12-2011, 09:08 AM
Hi Brian7500, I have read now this thread. I am also interested on Kimber 8TC for my new P3ESR but I don't have possibility to test. I have to buy it directly...with some risk.

Did you changed your 8TC with other cable?

thanks regards

luca1967
25-12-2011, 09:29 PM
does anybody use gotham cables? I think they are cable with a good value for money,often use in professional field.
Luca

camel
28-12-2011, 08:12 PM
hi

i'm using Mogami W3103, 4mmē (close to #11AWG) conductor size

macroaudio
29-12-2011, 05:20 PM
LFD Hybrid Ribbon speaker cables

davidlovel
21-01-2012, 02:15 PM
Speaker cables for Super HL5s

Some years ago, at short notice, I had to replace my Audio Synthesis silver cables which I'd had for 15 years, because they were too short for our remodelled room. Searching the internet I found "Clear Day" silver cables which I was able to buy on a sale-or-return basis for a very reasonable price 3 years ago, direct from the manufacturer in the USA. These cables sounded as good as the Audio Synthesis ones in most respects, but were not quite as transparent.

To rectify this I recently looked for an alternative. As my Super HL5s are the Anniversary edition they have bi-wire capability and I had bi-wired them with the Clear Day cables. I noted the opinion (expressed on this forum and elsewhere) that better sound quality could be obtained by spending a given sum on 1 stereo pair rather than on 2 stereo pairs for bi-wiring.

One disadvantage of silver cables I noticed was that over a long period of time they became corroded (black silver sulphide I believe). In researching potential replacement cables I came across Yter cables which are made from a silver / palladium alloy which is more resistant to degradation. As these have had very favourable reviews I decided to give them a try. Although I have several very accommodating dealers locally who would probably have loaned me several alternatives to listen to, my scepticism in this area is such that I decided to listen to just one (Yter) to see if significant and beneficial differences existed.

My listening notes below comparing the Yter cables to the Clear Day cables (and by inference the Audio Synthesis cables) are obviously subjective, relating as they do to my system in my room, my ears, and my preferences:

My first impression was of little difference: the tone was basically unchanged (natural) across the spectrum except for improved purity at the top, however detailed listening after a few days showed:

- more ambience of hall / recording acoustic
- better defined top; sweeter and clearer
- more transparent; could hear further into the 'mix' or orchestra
- better defined bass; sounded 'faster', edges better defined. Double bass excellent, no trace of boom
- voices better at high volume, no 'clogging' or 'limiting'
- more articulate across the spectrum, toe-tapping, rocks on rock
- far less occlusion on high-volume tuttis, instrumental / orchestral / choral
- micro-dynamics better conveyed.

I concluded these benefits were very worthwhile and have ordered a pair of the cables.

David

steveinaz
08-02-2012, 07:09 PM
I use Kimber 8TC, and Kimber Hero IC's. Never felt a need to replace them with anything else.