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INTRODUCTION- PLEASE READ FIRST TO UNDERSTAND THIS FORUM!

"This Harbeth User Group (HUG) is the Manufacturer's own managed forum dedicated to natural sound, realisable by controlling the confounding variables between tthe microphone and the listeners' ears.

For example, the design of and interaction between the hifi amplifier and its speaker load can and potentially will alter the sound balance of what you hear. To reproduce the sounds captured by the recording microphones, as Harbeth speakers are designed to do, you would naturally select system components (sources, electronics, cables and so on) that do not color the sound before it reaches the speakers.

Identifying components for their system neutrality should, logically, start with the interpretation and analysis of their technical, objective performance, as any and every deviation from a measurably flat frequency response at any point along the serial chain from microphone to ear is very likely to cause the total system to have an audible sonic personality. That includes the contribution of the listening room itself.

HUG specialises in making complex technical matters simple to understand, aiding the identification of audio components likely to maintain a faithful relationship between the recorded sound and the sound you hear. With our heritage of natural sound, HUG cannot be really be expected to guide in the selection, approval, endorsement or even discussion of equipment that is intend to introduce a significantly personalised sound to the audio signal chain. For that you should do your own research and above all, make the effort to visit an Authorised Dealer and listen to your music at your loudness on your loudspeakers through the various electronics offered there. There is no on-line substitute for that time investment in a dealer's showroom.

If you desire to intentionally tune your system sound to your personal taste, please consider carefully how much you should rely upon the subjective opinions of strangers. Their hearing acuity and taste will be different to yours, as will be their motives and budget, their listening distance, listening loudness and listening room treatment, not necessarily leading to appropriate equipment selection and listening satisfaction for you.

Alternatively, if faithfully reproducing the sound intended by the composer, score, conductor and musicians over your speakers is your audio dream, then understanding something of the issues likely to fulfill that objective is what this forum has been helping with since 2006. Welcome!"


Jan. 2018
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"Audio and technological myths" - the Top Ten most incredible

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  • "Audio and technological myths" - the Top Ten most incredible

    Near the bottom of this article read the Engineering and Technology magazine "Top ten craziest audio 'enhancements'". If you believe even one of those maybe musical appreciation is impossible for you?

    Read here.

  • #2
    The emotional tickle of the tube amp experience

    I love the part about tube amps that aren't connected to the signal path, but kept there for just the visual of the warm glow of tubes, it is an example I have used somewhere. Having done the tube amp thing for a few years, I realized that it is this visual input that was creating better music for me, in my brain where the hearing happens, ears being just transducers. They do look lovely!

    After some time I realized that the sound from a decent solid state amp was just as good, so when I decided to build a system for keeps, that's the route I took. Tube amps also add a lot of heat to the room, which isn't welcome where I live, and usually consume a lot more electricity. And intuitively I believe that cooler running equipment will last longer. I still miss the tube glow, with the lights low, but adding that without connecting it to anything won't work for me, once I know that it isn't connected to anything - one can't fool oneself! I once also had a tube equipped DAC, with the tubes not visible. Needless to say, it didn't do anything special. Instead, the thing had feet that glowed, changing color after the time that the tubes would need to become hot enough to run optimally! It was fun till the novelty lasted.

    Comment


    • #3
      Common sense - surely

      Originally posted by HUG-1 View Post
      Near the bottom of this article read the Engineering and Technology magazine "Top ten craziest audio 'enhancements'". If you believe even one of those maybe musical appreciation is impossible for you?

      Read here.
      Not just musical appreciation but common sense in general i.m.o.

      Comment


      • #4
        The demagnetiser at work

        I love the CD demagnetizer myth so much I had to Google it. This description of a demagnetizing CD made me laugh right out loud.

        'Some years ago we discovered that a strong signal from a signal generator through the signal path of an amplifier had a positive effect on the sound. One year later, during which we had experimented with complex signals, we found an algorithm of signals that gave a stunning improvement in soundstage, transparency, details and dynamics of audio systems.

        The reason behind this is that small magnets in the signal path are, with time, orientated in one direction. This produces a detrimental effect on the signal. The [brand name] signal actually relocates the magnets, and thereby breaks the magnetic field and it's negative effect on the sound'.

        Comment


        • #5
          Science ... you are kidding aren't you?

          It doesn't get much more whacky than this. Or does it? Stuff every audiophile needs to know here.

          This necessarily short list was drawn up by Prof. Leach. Is he in a position to judge? We think he probably is.

          These people at Junk Science deserve a medal. Or do they? Is this a double-bluff conspiracy?It's all here in glorious colour.

          No dedicated audio section yet. We'll drop them a line.

          Comment


          • #6
            Is junk science junk?

            I'm not crazy about the term "junk science". In practice, it seems to end up meaning "anything I disagree with and feel strongly about" so it's simply a term of abuse. Deserved in some cases maybe, but not in others, so it becomes mere use of an epithet doesn't advance anyone's understanding of anything very much.

            For example, some say climate change/global warming is "junk science" even though many apparently reputable scientists seem to consider it a real phenomenon. Unless you're a scientist yourself, your position on the issue is more likely to be determined by other ideological and social factors, and not by an impartial review of the scientific literature.

            It's never a bad idea to stick to what you know.

            Comment


            • #7
              Beranek's Law of speaker design

              From one of the founding fathers of acoustic science ...

              "It has been remarked that if one selects his own components, builds his own enclosure, and is convinced he has made a wise choice of design, then his own loudspeaker sounds better to him than does anyone else's loudspeaker. In this case, the frequency response of the loudspeaker seems to play only a minor part in forming a person's opinion.

              L.L. Beranek, Acoustics (McGraw-Hill, New York, 1954), p.208"

              Possibly true of ones own hifi system compared with ones friends?

              Comment


              • #8
                Beranek's syndrome alive and well in the tropics

                A friend modified an amplifier and was very happy with the results. After his success with his first amp he bought a similar amplifier to modify it as well but only to find out the amplifier in its original unmodified condition sounded way better than his modified amp. He gave up the idea of modifying after that. He was without a reference when he altered the original amplifier and let his heart to rule over his head or in this case his ears.

                Another person built his own 3 way speakers with one set of extra tweeters at the rear of the speakers that was rated by the local audiophile community to be better than most famous brands. The only thing I cant explain about his system was why the phase test merely moved the image from centre to the back not the usual in focus and with no apparent direction with out phase. An obvious fault but probably suffering from Beranek's syndrome.

                ST

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                • #9
                  More like a trumpet ...

                  I think this is unbeatable #1!

                  http://www.highendnovum.de/index.php...mid=61&lang=en

                  P.S. there is also a Premium version of the PMR© (Passiver-Multivokal-Resonator)

                  {Moderator's comment: we're not quite sure what this product does or how it works, but we strongly endorse prospective customers discovering for themselves.}

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    HiFi myths and live and let live?

                    Hm,

                    in all hifi forums all over the world you will find thousands of threads about "hifi myths", "idiots" who hear differences between loudspeaker cables etc. Thousands of "experts" try to prove what you are able to hear and what you cannot (in their opinion). When I read one of those forum threads, the word intolerance comes to my mind.

                    To me, more interesting than the discussion about hifi myths is question why it is so important for some people to bash others. Alan probably would say: listen to the music and relax. Mocking about other people always is said to be a sign for little self-consciousness, just ask a psychologist about this. Live and let live. ;-)

                    Just my 2 cents...

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Good engineering?

                      Dear Mr. Reinhard,
                      thank you for yor opinion on my winner proposal. Just before I read your post I was reading this:

                      http://www.harbeth.co.uk/usergroup/s...od-engineering........

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Audiophilia is The Grim Reaper

                        Originally posted by Reinhard View Post
                        Hm,

                        in all hifi forums all over the world you will find thousands of threads about "hifi myths", "idiots" who hear differences between loudspeaker cables etc. Thousands of "experts" try to prove what you are able to hear and what you cannot (in their opinion). When I read one of those forum threads, the word intolerance comes to my mind.
                        To me, more interesting than the discussion about hifi myths is question why it is so important for some people to bash others. Alan probably would say: listen to the music and relax. Mocking about other people always is said to be a sign for little self-consciousness, just ask a psychologist about this. Live and let live. ;-)

                        Just my 2 cents...
                        In my opinion, Alan et. al. have actually been amazingly tolerant of this goofiness. They are not "bashing others," but rather trying -- in a variety of ways, including sometimes sarcasm, when nothing else has any effect -- to bring some semblance of common sense, based in the facts of science and engineering, to the audiophile world. This is valuable (and frustrating) work on their part, for this unscientific audiophilia nonsense is killing the business of serious audio.

                        Bruce

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Getting edumacated in nuw werds

                          eventually, I find the most interesting part on most audio sites to be the word association threads. Very little in opinion on audio, just some fun with words...more educational frankly...glad that here there is no word association thread...:-)


                          cheers

                          george

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Equipment vs. Music and the 'tweakoid'

                            I'm congenitally wary of absolutes, but on the whole I think that the hallmark of the "audiophile" is that he or she (oh, who am I kidding, he) is more in love with the equipment than the music, and the whole fascination with "tweaks" is part of this. Whether it's audio, cycling, cars, golf (I have spent many enjoyable hours with a friend putting together clubs to the most exacting specifications, though I can't say it improved my actual golf game much), photography, etc. people (mostly male) are fascinated by the gear.

                            And that's fine, up to a point. The problem, as Alan has pointed out, is that there's probably a much larger group who would like quality music reproduction, and would be willing and able to pay for it, but are scared away by the obsessive, cultish, tweakoid fantasy world that too many audiophiles (not all, though) seem to inhabit.

                            I almost think it calls for a new name and a new form of marketing to signal the difference.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Gear Yes, But Greater Irrationality in Audiophilia (healing crystal clusters?)

                              Originally posted by EricW View Post
                              I'm congenitally wary of absolutes, but on the whole I think that the hallmark of the "audiophile" is that he or she (oh, who am I kidding, he) is more in love with the equipment than the music, and the whole fascination with "tweaks" is part of this. Whether it's audio, cycling, cars, golf (I have spent many enjoyable hours with a friend putting together clubs to the most exacting specifications, though I can't say it improved my actual golf game much), photography, etc. people (mostly male) are fascinated by the gear. [snip]
                              Yes, there's a fascination with gear in audiophilia, as in, for example, photography. But at least in photography higher priced gear generally speaking comes with measurable improvements that can be observed in the resulting photographs or in the process of taking the photographs: less noise in low light, finer resolution in large prints, quicker and more accurate autofocus, a wider contrast range so that more detail appears in the shadows and highlights, etc..

                              With audiophilia, on the other hand, you have folks (including reviewers) going on and on about the transparency of this cable or the musicality of this preamp. It's all so psychological -- ignoring science and engineering, they convince themselves that they would be able to hear differences if the levels were matched, but of course this belief is never put to the test -- and these strong psychological forces keep the belief system of the audiophiliac closed off from rational counter-argument.

                              So it seems to me there's more here than the fascination with gear. Entering the audiophiliacs world is like visiting Santa Fe, New Mexico, and listening to the talk of "healing crystal clusters," "selenite for sealing aura from energy leaks," "aura photographers," "crystals having a lovely energy," and so on.

                              Bruce

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