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HUG - here for all audio enthusiasts

Since its inception ten years ago, the Harbeth User Group's ambition has been to create a lasting knowledge archive. Knowledge is based on facts and observations. Knowledge is timeless. Knowledge is human independent and replicatable. However, we live in new world where thanks to social media, 'facts' have become flexible and personal. HUG operates in that real world.

HUG has two approaches to contributor's Posts. If you have, like us, a scientific mind and are curious about how the ear works, how it can lead us to make the right - and wrong - decisions, and about the technical ins and outs of audio equipment, how it's designed and what choices the designer makes, then the factual area of HUG is for you. The objective methods of comparing audio equipment under controlled conditions has been thoroughly examined here on HUG and elsewhere and can be easily understood and tried with negligible technical knowledge.

Alternatively, if you just like chatting about audio and subjectivity rules for you, then the Subjective Soundings sub-forum is you. If upon examination we think that Posts are better suited to one sub-forum than than the other, they will be redirected during Moderation, which is applied throughout the site.

Questions and Posts about, for example, 'does amplifier A sounds better than amplifier B' or 'which speaker stands or cables are best' are suitable for the Subjective Soundings area.

The Moderators' decision is final in all matters regarding what appears here. That said, very few Posts are rejected. HUG Moderation individually spell and layout checks Posts for clarity but due to the workload, Posts in the Subjective Soundings area, from Oct. 2016 will not be. We regret that but we are unable to accept Posts that present what we consider to be free advertising for products that Harbeth does not make.

That's it! Enjoy!

{Updated Nov. 2016A}
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Amplifier selection for your Harbeths (general, not specific Harbeth models)

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  • Re: Naim or Sugden

    Hello Alan,

    Thank you for clarifying the speaker/amplifier interaction issue. I can - and certainly must - accept your point, that some measurable differences will occur between different amps into the same speaker. But my suspicion is that these differences are generally not audible and hence significant, though I could be proven wrong. And I am thinking of solid state, not tube amps; in terms of seeking accuracy, I tend to think solid state would be the general choice. When someone says a certain tube amp sounds particularly wonderful, I think that is probably because it'is adding something to the signal that the listener likes - or perhaps is glossing over something that he doesn't like. Not that it is more accurate than other amps. In short, the more accurate a tube amp is, the more I believe it will sound like any number of solid state amps. Again, I could be proven wrong. (And, too, the point you made must be considered; namely, that any amplifier's performance will to some extent be affected by the speaker it serves).
    My belief is that far more than electronics affecting the sound one gets from one's Harbeth's, placement in the room will affect their sound. So I would just hope that those thinking of trying different ampliifers with their Harbeth's have first taken the time to try the speakers in various configurations in the room to arrive at what seems an optimal placement. Whether this process is done using measurements or just one's ears, it should at least be a revealing one and - at best - a rewarding one.

    Ned

    Comment


    • Re: Naim or Sugden

      Originally posted by shseto
      i listen to jazz and classical.

      My personal expereince and feeling is that jazz and classical demand different sound. this is giving me big headache as i love both type of music.

      i like classical sounding warm and smooth with lots of air while jazz should sound exciting and dynamic.
      Yes, I think that classical and jazz demand different sound, so I understand that could be big headache even when you choose the speakers. I mostly listen to classical but I need dynamic for orchestral work. Could you try both of Sugden A21a and Naim 5?

      Comment


      • Amps and rooms: a sense of priority

        Originally posted by Ned Mast
        My belief is that far more than electronics affecting the sound one gets from one's Harbeth's, placement in the room will affect their sound. So I would just hope that those thinking of trying different ampliifers with their Harbeth's have first taken the time to try the speakers in various configurations in the room to arrive at what seems an optimal placement.
        I agree: the commonly held belief that an amp designer (compared to what is a reality for transducer designers - microphones and speakers) has a vast bag of tricks available to somehow trash or gold plate the soundwave signals passing through his amp has always surprised me.

        Undeniably, different design strategies - even different PCB layouts - do effect sound, measurably and sonically, but compared to the almost limitless list of technical/acoustic characteristic 'distortions' that can be attributed to even good speakers, the amp designers window of improvement is small indeed.

        Domestic listening rooms make an acoustic mess of soundwaves to the point that is is nothing short of a miracle that we can hear through the peaks and troughs to be able to differentiate any detail at all. But we can. As you say, paying some attention to damping the room to kill the worst of the acoustics will reap dividends. That's where I'll be starting as I build a new listening room next month during closedown.

        Alan
        (in China)
        Alan A. Shaw
        Designer, owner
        Harbeth Audio UK

        Comment


        • Re: Naim or Sugden

          Hope we could know how to make a good listening room. I have listened to P3ES-2/Sugden A21a amp/Sugden CDP for more than two weeks. In the begining I felt that sounds brighter than my M30, slowly I got used. Now I got back to my M30/Plinius 102 power amp/Quad 99 pre amo/Quad 99CDP, I even got surprised that they sound so differently, my system sounds much more lower, smoother and softer, I even doubt they are from one family and wonder if P3ES-2 and M30 sound so differently or because of the amps?

          Comment


          • Re: Amplifier selection for your Harbeths (general, not specific Harbeth models)

            Is Primare I20 or I30 a good match for P3ES2 or C7?

            Comment


            • Re: Naim or Sugden

              I purchased the Model 30 to replace 15 ohm LS3/5a's which had served me for 25 years. The amp I had used with the Rogers speakers is the NYAL Futterman OTL4. This amp worked with my Quads and the 15ohm load of the Rogers. While not the greatest bottom the Futterman is magic with the mid and high end. The magic didnot reveal itself fully until the grills came off.

              Comment


              • Re: Amplifier selection for your Harbeths (general, not specific Harbeth models)

                "The istant Email notification" doesn't work !!!!

                Anyway,
                does anybody listen to Monitor 30 with Exposure XXXV ?
                In Italy it's said it's a wonderful match...

                David

                Comment


                • Re: Amplifier selection for your Harbeths (general, not specific Harbeth models)

                  Since I listen to CD's for the most part, I simply run my Marantz/Lavry DA10 directly into a Yamaha M65 (230 watts/channel into 4 ohms) and from there to my M40's through 10 gauge stranded copper wire.

                  Ned

                  Comment


                  • Re: Amplifier selection for your Harbeths (general, not specific Harbeth models)

                    NAIM NAC82/NAP250 with NACA5 speaker cable into compact 7ES2.

                    Comment


                    • Re: Amplifier selection for your Harbeths (general, not specific Harbeth models)

                      I would like to know if you can bi-amp the M40 without any external device.
                      Suppose you have 2 identical mono amps powering one M40 or gain matched amps of different topology.
                      One amp powers the 12" driver and the other amp powers the mid and tweeter. 2 separate speaker cables would be used along with a single jumper between the mid & tweeter.
                      I may consider powering the 12" driver with a SS amp and the mid & tweeter with a tube amp.
                      I would welcome Alan's comments on this. Thank you in advance for your input.

                      Comment


                      • Jeff Rowlands for Harbeths

                        http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b3...land102out.jpg

                        I recently had the chance to try the new Jeff Rowland Model 102 digital amplifier into both the Harbeth Compact 7es2 and Monitor 30. Both speakers sound splended with this small amplifier that puts out 100w per side at 8 ohms. The Pre-amp was a tube Modwright 9.0SWL.

                        Best part about the Rowland, its priced fairly at $1500 considering the build quality of the unit and the unit consumes very little electricity.

                        http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b3...and102_iin.jpg

                        Comment


                        • Naim alternative

                          Looking to simplify my system and want to purchase Harbeths and ss amp/pre-amp or integrated. I have read several places about the great match of Harbeth & Naim amplification, although I have not gotten to hear the combo personally. I want to simplify and do not want the hassle of din connections, extra power supplies, and expense per watt, so Naim is not really a consideration. What about some alternative ss brands which are also more affordable such as Arcam, Exposure, Rega, Densen, etc. ?

                          Comment


                          • Re: Naim alternative

                            All the alternatives you mention are good - but none are as good as Naim IMHO. I have owned Arcam, Rega (still do) as well as Naim. You gets what you pays for! Naim make 3 good integrated amps. You don't need to add power supplies to them, they are optional. As far as interconnects go, you can use DIN to RCA cables. Where's the hassle.

                            Expense per watt? Is it possible to correlate musical pleasure to expense per watt?

                            Comment


                            • Re: Naim alternative

                              Well you may want to try Lavardin. I believe they are really close in terms of sounding but I choose Lavardin because love the smooth sounding amp.

                              Cheers.

                              Comment


                              • Re: Amplifier selection for your Harbeths (general, not specific Harbeth models)

                                Hello,

                                I have juste bought a pair of Monitor 30, for the moment I drive them with a A75-C75 (old branch Cambridge Audio).
                                I think the bass is not well drived.
                                What kind of amplifier could take the place of my Cambridge audio, with the same sound but with more bass?
                                I have read that naim is suitable fot harbteh, but I doubt that naim and (old) cambrdidge audio have the same sound.
                                I know that the new model, NAP 150 sound quitly different with the old 180.
                                Could "you" help me?

                                Comment

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