Announcement

Collapse

HUG - here for all audio enthusiasts

Since its inception ten years ago, the Harbeth User Group's ambition has been to create a lasting knowledge archive. Knowledge is based on facts and observations. Knowledge is timeless. Knowledge is human independent and replicatable. However, we live in new world where thanks to social media, 'facts' have become flexible and personal. HUG operates in that real world.

HUG has two approaches to contributor's Posts. If you have, like us, a scientific mind and are curious about how the ear works, how it can lead us to make the right - and wrong - decisions, and about the technical ins and outs of audio equipment, how it's designed and what choices the designer makes, then the factual area of HUG is for you. The objective methods of comparing audio equipment under controlled conditions has been thoroughly examined here on HUG and elsewhere and can be easily understood and tried with negligible technical knowledge.

Alternatively, if you just like chatting about audio and subjectivity rules for you, then the Subjective Soundings sub-forum is you. If upon examination we think that Posts are better suited to one sub-forum than than the other, they will be redirected during Moderation, which is applied throughout the site.

Questions and Posts about, for example, 'does amplifier A sounds better than amplifier B' or 'which speaker stands or cables are best' are suitable for the Subjective Soundings area.

The Moderators' decision is final in all matters regarding what appears here. That said, very few Posts are rejected. HUG Moderation individually spell and layout checks Posts for clarity but due to the workload, Posts in the Subjective Soundings area, from Oct. 2016 will not be. We regret that but we are unable to accept Posts that present what we consider to be free advertising for products that Harbeth does not make.

That's it! Enjoy!

{Updated Nov. 2016A}
See more
See less

Amplifier selection for your Harbeths (general, not specific Harbeth models)

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #76
    Its many reasons: separate power supply, separation from EMI etc, ability to use larger transformers.. a large part of auidio sonic quality has to do with quality of power source and sheilding from interference, noise etc.
    Then again, design does matter too. They are very good integrated amps too.

    Comment


    • #77
      Best amplifier: valve or SS Class-A?

      I've posted something related to this on the HPL3 thread, but I think it's probably also of more general interest.

      Having bought a pair of the smallest monitors, and being generally delighted with them, there are problems which suggest that I should perhaps think of changing my amplifier. I hate this! I can see the costly, painful spiral of never-ending substitutions (aka upgrading) consuming my life. The problem with buying Harbeths, I have found, is that they are ruthlessly revealing of shortcomings in equipment down the line. In short, I'm thinking of replacing my custom 90watt SS amp (with which I've been very happy for some 12 years!) with a good, but affordable valve amplifier. The other possibility is a Class-A SS. A friend brought around a restored, 25-year old Sugden which sounded glorious (with only 25 watts). Problem is that I can't afford a new Sugden (having spent my budget on the Harbeths) and there are not very many of the vintage Sugdens around.

      Does anyone have any experience to share? I'm not sure if it makes a difference whether you've got the bigger Harbeths or not, since the smaller ones don't have Radial drivers.

      Thanks

      David

      PS If anyone thinks the Harbeths are hard to drive, try my previous 'speakers, Martin Logans. They were hell--beautiful mid-range, virtually no treble, lumpy bass and very temperamental!

      Originally posted by alanshaw
      This thread concerns finding the best amplifier solutions.

      Comment


      • #78
        Originally posted by David Schalkwyk
        The problem with buying Harbeths, I have found, is that they are ruthlessly revealing of shortcomings in equipment down the line.
        As one considering Harbeth's, I'm sorry to hear that. I have an audition of the C7 and Monitor 30 set for this Sunday. So I will hear for myself.
        Last edited by Bruce; 08-02-2006, 08:00 PM.

        Comment


        • #79
          Ruthlessly revealing Harbeths

          Originally posted by Bruce
          As one considering Harbeth's, I'm sorry to hear that. I have a audition of the C7 and Monitor 30 set for this Sunday. So I will hear for myself.
          Bruce, why should you be sorry? I would have thought it would be an incentive (even though it's caused me some pain).

          Best

          David

          Comment


          • #80
            That's no incentive to me. Having to swap out amplifiers to make the speakers sound good is not a game I want to play. Maybe Spendors are better for me. Can you say the "S" word in this forum.

            Comment


            • #81
              Ruthlessly revealing incentives

              I can understand your point, having just had a pair of Harbeths force me to reconsider what I considered good reproduction. But I have come round, painfully, to the conviction that you can't buy loudspeakers on the ground that they will hide the shortcomings of the rest of your system. What's the point? I've listened to the Spendor competitor of the Harbeths. Even with the problems that the HPL3s revealed in my amplifier/turntable/arm/cartridge (I'm not sure which), I wouldn't have bought the Spendors. That's not to say that the Spendors aren't fine for someone else. It just strikes me that if you don't buy a transducer that is designed to be as accurate (to the recording, not necessarily to the original event, because a loudspeaker doesn't know the original event) then you're going around in circles. I bought a pair of very expensive, very well-reviewed loudspeakers a couple of years ago that I thought matched the system I had. But I gradually became more and more irritated and dissatisfied with them until I could not listen to them any more. That's the danger of not buying equipment that is ruthlessly revealing. At least it doesn't lie. One can live with lies, but only for a certain amount of time.

              Good luck, and best wishes,

              David
              .

              Comment


              • #82
                Originally posted by David Schalkwyk
                It just strikes me that if you don't buy a transducer that is designed to be as accurate (to the recording, not necessarily to the original event, because a loudspeaker doesn't know the original event) then you're going around in circles.
                Well, that's where we differ. I want speakers that I can listen to for hours and just enjoy the music without constantly analyzing it to determine whether I have just the right components. What's the good of being accurate if you can't stand to listen to it.

                Comment


                • #83
                  Listening for hours

                  Originally posted by Bruce
                  Well, that's where we differ. I want speakers that I can listen to for hours and just enjoy the music without constantly analyzing it to determine whether I have just the right components. What's the good of being accurate if you can't stand to listen to it.
                  Bruce, we could go on for ever. So I'll just make one brief remark. When I bought my previous 'speakers I thought exactly that: I just want to listen for hours (which I do). I don't believe that hi-fi can reproduce live sound with any kind of real accuracy. Problem is that when I listened for hours with my earlier 'speakers (which I bought following your principle--I've been there!) I gradually become less and less comfortable at what I was hearing. All I'm saying is that, to avoid future discomfort, buy the most accurate monitors you can (accurate as far as the recording is concerned). They may reveal problems with the ancillary equipment, but at least you'll know that. It's better than gradually discovering that what you thought would be pleasant, nice, comfortable, whatever, finally turns out to be irritating, deceptive, and unpleasant. That's all. Time is what counts here. I've made this mistake twice; I don't want to make it again. Our ears, as Alan says, are deceptive. But they're deceptive in a non-linear way. After a while, whatever they told you before, they'll rebel in the long run.

                  Will I be satisfied with Harbeth forever? I don't know. Maybe I'll grow out of love with them too. But for the moment they show me what has been missing for the past few years. There is no science to this aspect of the game. Alan has to hold on to science, but we just live our lives, trying to balance all the competing demands, including wanting to listen for hours.

                  Good night.

                  David

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Tubes or solid state?

                    Some recommend tube-based amps. Others, including - I believe - Alan himself, prefer solid state.

                    What's your opinion? What's your thinking?

                    =====

                    I am unsure whether proponents of each camp are referring to Harbeths in particular or speakers in general.

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Hours with the Primaluna 2?

                      Originally posted by Bruce
                      I'm sure this was covered over and over in the old forum but I can't get into the old one and search. I'm considering the Super HL5 speakers. I have a PrimaLuna Prologue 2 K88T tube amp rated at 40 wpc. I don't have a local dealer where I can audition the SHL5's with my amp. I see a lot of posts in audio forums that say Harbeths need a lot of power and don't do well with tube amps. So I'm coming here to hopefully find out the truth from some real Harbeth owners. Is my PrimaLuna Prologue 2 tube amp adequate for the Harbeth SHL5's?
                      A quick PS to my last posting. It's perhaps extremely ironical for this discussion that one of the amplifiers I am considering as a match for the HPL3s is precisely the Primaluna Prologue 2! Perhaps you can tell me how they sound after your audition, Bruce?

                      Regards

                      And a final good night

                      David

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Hifi heaven is...

                        Michell + SME+Shure+my modified 1959 Leak Stereo20 + Coffee Latte. Three choices of LS that I use; LS3/5a, B&W Nautilus (my own Xover design. Far superior to B&W! hehe) and Wilson Benesch Arc's. Would love a pair of Harbeth Monitor 30's but running out of room!

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          It depends on your taste and speaker, of course. Monitor 40 won't be happy with a SET amp, but SHL5, C7 and M30 most probably will. I generally prefer tubes over solid state, for their tonal colors. Bear in mind, though, that much of these tonal colors are absent in most speakers but present in the RADIAL cone itself. So, maybe the best criterion is the speed of the amplifier which depends much on the amount of output power, amount/topology of feedback and class of operation.

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            C7s driven by Woodside ISO 230 integrated valve

                            My C7s are driven by a Woodside ISO 230 integrated valve amp, with whic I have been happy for 10 years... However, I recently decided to upgrade the system, starting with the source: Marantz SA11.... fantastic SA CD!

                            Regarding the amp, Woodside disappeared I guess, but my dealer in Belgium has still a possible amp/pre amp separate combination from Woodside which he suggests me (better bass etc...)

                            What do you all think ?? Any idea on the next level for a valve fan? The C7s are not the easiest loudspeakers to drive...

                            Cheers !


                            Originally posted by John Parkyn
                            Just thought it might be interesting to see what members use to drive their Harbeths. I'm far frlom an audiophile or a techie but I imagine some of the following terms will crop up: solid state, tubes, integrated, receiver, amp, pre-amp.

                            Also please let us know what Harbeth model they're driving and watt power is at play (a wee joke there!).

                            Please let us know how satisfied you are with the resulting sound.

                            I don't have Harbeths yet, but currently (Lordy, another wee joke!) I use a vintage Marantz 2270 receiver to power Spendor S 3/5's and a Luxman receiver to push ADC (bet you never heard of them) sub and satellites. I am pleased with the sound these engines generate.

                            If I can improve the wording of the question let me know and I'll edit it.

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Originally posted by David Schalkwyk
                              A quick PS to my last posting. It's perhaps extremely ironical for this discussion that one of the amplifiers I am considering as a match for the HPL3s is precisely the Primaluna Prologue 2! Perhaps you can tell me how they sound after your audition, Bruce?

                              Regards

                              And a final good night

                              David
                              I will. But, I will be auditioning the Monitor 30 and the C7's only, not the HLP3's. I would think that the synergy between the Prologue 2 and the C7's will carry over to the HLP3's. Don't expect any flowery reviewer type BS wordsmithing. I will be listening overall for whether I can live with this combination for long periods without fatigue (how the upper mids and treble sound) and how full the soundstage is at low listening levels. I'm looking for a set of speakers to keep for life where I can listen to the music and not constantly be listening for deficiencies in my components.

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Deficiencies and pleasure

                                [/QUOTE] I'm looking for a set of speakers to keep for life where I can listen to the music and not constantly be listening for deficiencies in my components.[/QUOTE]

                                Fair enough. I think I put it wrongly when I said that the Harbeths expose deficiencies in components. That was a bit too negative. What I should have said is that they're accurate enough to convey the musical strengths of any good component. That is to say, get an accurate loudspeaker, and you never have to replace it again, because it will live up to whatever you feed it with. And it will give you unending pleasure.

                                I've just had a fascinating evening. A friend brought a new amplifier he's just finished building, based on a John Linsley-Hood pure class-A SS design. We've spent four hours entranced by music--Bach Cello suites, Debussy piano music, Britten's War Requiem, Beethoven String Quartets; Arvo Part's Tabula Rasa; Dave Brubeck; Miles Davis; and Bill Evans. CD and LP--about half and half. The combination of the Harbeths and the Class-A ss was pure pleasure. I've never heard anything like it. Now, here's the interesting bit. Because he's having difficulty with temperature control, he's had to lmit the amplifier to 11 watts. Yes, eleven. With Britten's War Requiem. No sign of clipping; no strain.

                                I think I've solved my amplifier problem. Privided he can solve the temperature issue. I insist on at least 18 watts. Never know when you might need them.

                                David

                                PS He tells me that the amp is the ss equivalent of a SET amplifier. Now I know what they mean.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X