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INTRODUCTION - PLEASE READ FIRST TO UNDERSTAND THIS FORUM!

"This Harbeth User Group (HUG) is the Manufacturer's own managed forum dedicated to natural sound from microphone to ear, achievable by recognising and controlling the numerous confounding variables that exist along the audio chain. The Harbeth designer's objective is to make loudspeakers that contribute little of themselves to the music passing through them.

Identifying system components for their sonic neutrality should logically proceed from the interpretation and analysis of their technical, objective performance, since deviations from a flat frequency response at any point along the signal chain from microphone to ear is likely to create an audible sonic personality in what you hear. That includes the contribution of the listening room itself. To accurately reproduce the recorded sound, as Harbeth speakers are designed to do, you would be advised to select system components (sources, electronics, cables and so on) that do not color the sound before it reaches the speakers.

For example, the design of and interaction between the hifi amplifier and its speaker load can and potentially will alter the sound balance of what you hear. This may or may not be what you wish to achieve, but on the face of it, any deviation from a flat response - and the frequency balance of tube amplifiers are usually influenced by their speaker load - is a step away from a truly neutral system. HUG has extensively discussed amplifiers and the methods for seeking the most objectively neutral amongst a plethora of available product choices.

HUG specialises in making complex technical matters simple to understand, aiding the identification of audio components likely to maintain a faithful relationship between the recorded sound and the sound you hear. With our heritage of natural sound and pragmatism, HUG cannot be expected to be a place to discuss the selection, approval or endorsement of non-Harbeth system elements selected, knowingly or not, to create a significantly personalised sound. For that you should do your own research and above all, make the effort to visit an Authorised Dealer and listen to your music at your loudness on your loudspeakers through the various offerings there. There is really no on-line substitute for time invested in a dealer's showroom because 'tuning' your system to taste is such a highly personal matter.

Please consider carefully how much you should rely upon and be influenced by the subjective opinions of strangers. Their hearing acuity and taste will be different to yours, as will be their motives and budget, their listening distance, loudness and room treatment, not necessarily leading to appropriate equipment selection and listening satisfaction for you.

If faithfully reproducing the sound intended by the composer, score, conductor and musicians in your home and over Harbeth speakers is your audio dream, then understanding something of the issues likely to fulfill that intention is what this forum has been helping to do since 2006. Welcome!"


Feb. 2018
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Forget cables! This is WAY beyond ...

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  • Forget cables! This is WAY beyond ...

    I try to be open-minded, but really ....

    Anybody like to drop $1000 on this mysterious gadget and let us know what they think?

    http://www.lessloss.com/blackbody-p-200.html

  • #2
    Re: Forget cables! This is WAY beyond ...

    i don't think i will..it's just too costly for me...

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Forget cables! This is WAY beyond ...

      No Thanks,
      I'm concentrated in music itself. My modest cables work just fine. I'd rather spend this money in buying classical music, where I have great need of works to be added.
      Cheers,
      Thanos

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Forget cables! This is WAY beyond ...

        Esoteric noise blockers, dampners, and EMI absorbers have been around for long periods of time . Whether it be the Quantum Physics Noise Disrupter, Shakti Stone, or the VPI Brick which originally sold for around $50. Some people were simply wrapping tin foil around stones or lead.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Forget cables! This is WAY beyond ...

          Zazam! Don't forget, you really need three of them!

          More useful audio devices here:

          http://www.dself.dsl.pipex.com/ampin...j/failproj.htm

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Forget cables! This is WAY beyond ...

            Originally posted by templetune View Post
            Zazam! Don't forget, you really need three of them!

            More useful audio devices here:

            http://www.dself.dsl.pipex.com/ampin...j/failproj.htm
            After having my stomach aching and paying a visit to the W.C. , all due to severe laughter, I have to

            Thank You for this!

            Thanos

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Forget cables! This is WAY beyond ...

              Originally posted by Thanos View Post
              After having my stomach aching and paying a visit to the W.C. , all due to severe laughter, I have to

              Thank You for this!

              Thanos
              You're welcome. My reaction too, particularly when it came to Charles Daly's cuirass.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Forget cables! This is WAY beyond ...

                The Blackbody and other gadgets are indeed very funny (just read the babble that passes for science on the website), but such things have tragic consequences when they pretend to detect bombs...

                David

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Forget cables! This is WAY beyond ...

                  Hi Thanos

                  Your stomach may be aching but the people in this are having the last laugh…

                  -Cable fraudsters – most don’t even have a factory. If its that important all of us would be welding solid copper bars between our amps and speakers.

                  -Stones- we won’t go there. Fashioning something out of what we can find on a deserted beach might work better,

                  -Isolation devices (anything over USD 10 bucks is fraud). We’ll have more luck making something we can find from toy’s r us.

                  - Power conditioners. i’ll have better sound by putting a pillow under my butt so my ears are at tweeter level.

                  -Tube amps (if overpriced and I mean anything over USD3K is fraud). There are some well engineered tube amps, (no its not you audio research or con-rad Johnson), but they costs twice (or thrice) what a solid state can do it for.

                  - Most hifi reviewers – some im sure don’t really even listen to the stuff (and are too chicken to participate in a listening test).

                  -The plug and connector fraud. If it’s that important, we would have found a way to do without them altogether.

                  -Any solid state integrated amp over USD 2500 – rings my fraudometer, Sorry, that’s just the way it is. Have a look inside that minimalist usd 2600 integrated (yes, that means you, lfd etc) and tell me what you see? How can a manufacturer justify that price. Engineering and design? Give me a break…

                  - turntable vinyl fraud. I think wax discs sound the best. What do you think?

                  Actually I really don’t feel sorry if I see some hifi companies go bust replaced by more well engineered, thought out, value driven ones. Its really the fraudsters who have damaged the industry by spreading misconceived ideas and pushing the honest mid tier ones down.

                  There will be a return of hifi and im calling it bringing back the beetle in hifi and that’s when this ipod generation gets tired of the crappy bose systems they’re sticking their devices into.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Forget cables! This is WAY beyond ...

                    I use the Audience AR6 "T" power conditioner in my set up, which includes my beloved P3ESR's.The level of improvement it has brought to my system is simply amazing.This is not a subtle improvement, but a profound one.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Forget cables! This is WAY beyond ...

                      Hi DrewTurner

                      it'll be intersting to see the effect of your power conditioner on different amplifers, some with a well designed power supply and those with a less well designed power supply. the reason i bring this up is that because for the price of your power conditioner, i can buy a darn good amp, one which i have my sights on a Yammie As2000 and might even have some spare change left. just a thought.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Forget cables! This is WAY beyond ...

                        My amp is Passlabs.On it's own, it is a great amp.Plugged into the Audience "T' power conditioner, it becomes state of the art.Actually,I consider my Harbeth's and the Audience "T" ,the components I value the most in my system.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Forget cables! This is WAY beyond ...

                          Originally posted by kittykat View Post
                          Hi Thanos

                          Your stomach may be aching but the people in this are having the last laugh…

                          -Cable fraudsters – most don’t even have a factory. If its that important all of us would be welding solid copper bars between our amps and speakers.

                          -Stones- we won’t go there. Fashioning something out of what we can find on a deserted beach might work better,

                          -Isolation devices (anything over USD 10 bucks is fraud). We’ll have more luck making something we can find from toy’s r us.

                          - Power conditioners. i’ll have better sound by putting a pillow under my butt so my ears are at tweeter level.

                          -Tube amps (if overpriced and I mean anything over USD3K is fraud). There are some well engineered tube amps, (no its not you audio research or con-rad Johnson), but they costs twice (or thrice) what a solid state can do it for.

                          - Most hifi reviewers – some im sure don’t really even listen to the stuff (and are too chicken to participate in a listening test).

                          -The plug and connector fraud. If it’s that important, we would have found a way to do without them altogether.

                          -Any solid state integrated amp over USD 2500 – rings my fraudometer, Sorry, that’s just the way it is. Have a look inside that minimalist usd 2600 integrated (yes, that means you, lfd etc) and tell me what you see? How can a manufacturer justify that price. Engineering and design? Give me a break…

                          - turntable vinyl fraud. I think wax discs sound the best. What do you think?

                          Actually I really don’t feel sorry if I see some hifi companies go bust replaced by more well engineered, thought out, value driven ones. Its really the fraudsters who have damaged the industry by spreading misconceived ideas and pushing the honest mid tier ones down.

                          There will be a return of hifi and im calling it bringing back the beetle in hifi and that’s when this ipod generation gets tired of the crappy bose systems they’re sticking their devices into.
                          Don't worry at all Kitty Kat,

                          There's an old countryside Greek motto (you know I always use them for their wisdom-make me smile or even laugh) about all these hi-end gurus and products. It reflects the tensions and course of international crisis (so they call theft), it has a meaning for what robbery is like. I'll try to translate:
                          " Once for the thief, twice for the thief, three times will be his last..."
                          You'd better laugh my friend, otherwise-seeing all these frauds- you'll get crazy or worse...It isn't really worth to loose your temper for all those profit maniacs that think we are all born stupid, while they are the rulers of the game. Knowledge will come, punishment will come..
                          I vote for your "beetle". I always did!
                          Regards from Athens,
                          Thanos

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Forget cables! This is WAY beyond ...

                            Hi DrewTurner

                            im getting really interested in this hot product. not for a moment doubting anyones ability to hear a difference, it makes me wonder why a designer as knowledgeble as Nelson Pass would not have incorporated the design of this said power conditioner into their amplifier in the first place. im sure some companies would surely have wanted this magic to make their product the mother of giant killers. would it be because the extra 2500 dollars (in parts or licensing) be too much as additional costs? but then, some amps already cost multiples of that so it would conceivably make little difference to the price? i know auricaps are expensive but hey, if you wanted to build a no compromise amp, put in power conditioning in the first up. if not, this raises many other questions for me eg. amp designers are too lazy, some amps are already doing it, some dont, some dont see the need, they dont have the technology or too cheapskate to pay royalty, couldnt be bothered to give consumers the best sound they can etc.
                            Last edited by kittykat; 12-02-2010, 07:27 PM. Reason: 4.27 am in the morning, should be sleeping and not listening to harbeths and making typos

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Forget cables! This is WAY beyond ...

                              I'm not of the opinion that all, or even most audio equipment designers/manufacturers are out to deceive or cheat consumers.And I certainly don't consider everyone who invests in costly audio components,to be shallow "Hi End Gurus".The Audience ar6"T" PC(T forTeflon capacitors) has brought about an incredible improvement in sound quality to my system.Others will have to audition this product and decide for themselves.I have complete trust in this company's integrity.It makes no difference to me if this unit is considered a "Hot Product" or not.My decision to purchase it, was based solely on what my ears told me.These same ears told me to invest in Harbeth speakers.I trust my ears.My Passlab amp is the best sounding amp I have ever owned.It just sounds far better, it's performance optimized when plugged into a PC, that was designed by a company that SPECIALIZES in this underestimated.evolving technology.I'm not one for debate.This is just my subjective opinion.Good luck in building your system.

                              Comment

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