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Since its inception ten years ago, the Harbeth User Group's ambition has been to create a lasting knowledge archive. Knowledge is based on facts and observations. Knowledge is timeless. Knowledge is human independent and replicatable. However, we live in new world where thanks to social media, 'facts' have become flexible and personal. HUG operates in that real world.

HUG has two approaches to contributor's Posts. If you have, like us, a scientific mind and are curious about how the ear works, how it can lead us to make the right - and wrong - decisions, and about the technical ins and outs of audio equipment, how it's designed and what choices the designer makes, then the factual area of HUG is for you. The objective methods of comparing audio equipment under controlled conditions has been thoroughly examined here on HUG and elsewhere and can be easily understood and tried with negligible technical knowledge.

Alternatively, if you just like chatting about audio and subjectivity rules for you, then the Subjective Soundings sub-forum is you. If upon examination we think that Posts are better suited to one sub-forum than than the other, they will be redirected during Moderation, which is applied throughout the site.

Questions and Posts about, for example, 'does amplifier A sounds better than amplifier B' or 'which speaker stands or cables are best' are suitable for the Subjective Soundings area.

The Moderators' decision is final in all matters regarding what appears here. That said, very few Posts are rejected. HUG Moderation individually spell and layout checks Posts for clarity but due to the workload, Posts in the Subjective Soundings area, from Oct. 2016 will not be. We regret that but we are unable to accept Posts that present what we consider to be free advertising for products that Harbeth does not make.

That's it! Enjoy!

{Updated Nov. 2016A}
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Cables for your Harbeths (general, not specific Harbeth models)

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  • #61
    Re: Cables for your Harbeths (general, not specific Harbeth models)

    Originally posted by T.W. View Post
    Another example that woman are without fail. I decided to replace my HL5LE by some Super HL5. We went to a listening test. We listened to the Super HL5. Great - pure Harbeth sound but not that much difference to our HL5LE. Then I saw the M40 - a little bit dusty. We gave it a try. That was the moment my wife had to smile. She said: "If you HAVE to buy new speakers then take these" - we did. We love the M40s.
    You lucky, lucky man...............[grin]

    Most ladies can hear differences in audio equipment "if they're there" and they don't usually have pre-conceived ideas either. A tragedy that they usually want the Bose "sub-sat" idea instead of a "proper" full range speaker - in my experience in the UK of course.

    Comment


    • #62
      UK cable supplier reported to Advertising Standards Authority

      A UK cable supplier has been reported to the Advertising Standards Authority who regulate all advertising in the UK. In brief, the customer complained about the Claims made of this cable in the suppliers literature .... (I quote exactly)

      1. "The key to success of our PowerKords is KIMBER's unique cable weave which has proven to dramatically reduce Radio Frequency Interference (RFI) already on the mains supply and to reject further pick up of RFI ...", because he believed the PowerKord cable would have little affect on conducted electromagnetic interference;

      2. "... Distortion levels inside equipment is vastly reduced, letting you hear a sound that is vastly clearer and purer, more detailed and far more dynamic ...", because he believed the Signature PowerKord cable would have little affect on measurable distortion in hi-fi equipment, and

      3. "... eliminate system sound fluctuation and help to create a super-quiet noise floor, allowing more believable dynamics, deeper bass and lower high frequency distortion ... Listen out for a quieter noise floor (expect more dynamic music and greater detail) and a much more cohesive musical sound ...", because he believed the advertised spike-protecting devices would have little affect on the noise floor in hi-fi equipment.



      The ASA considered the case, asked for Expert Witness opinion and concluded - (quote)

      "3. Upheld
      Our expert considered that [the advertiser] had not supplied any supporting evidence to prove that the noise floor in the audio signal chain was lowered by the advertised devices. He said it had shown that the noise floor on the mains supply could be reduced, but this appeared to be common modes. He understood differential modes were actually more significant than common modes and believed the devices were not dealing with the biggest cause of mains supply spikes. He said no evidence had been provided to show that spike-protecting devices affected audio signals, as opposed to mains voltages. The expert believed it was possible to test the noise floor of a system objectively without perceptual testing and believed this could be done for both a standard mains cable and the Mega/Super Clamp Ultra and the results compared. We considered that the evidence submitted was not sufficiently robust to show that spike-protecting devices would eliminate system sound fluctuation and help create a super-quiet noise floor. We concluded that the ad was misleading.

      Action
      We told [the advertiser] not use the claims again unless they could substantiate them with robust scientific evidence".

      -----------------------------

      I do not want to comment on this particular case, but I do want to draw your attention to the fact that we have been promoting the Scientific Method here.
      Alan A. Shaw
      Designer, owner
      Harbeth Audio UK

      Comment


      • #63
        UK cable supplier reported to Advertising Standards Authority

        A UK cable supplier has been reported to the Advertising Standards Authority who regulate all advertising in the UK. In brief, the customer complained about the Claims made of this cable in the suppliers literature .... (I quote exactly)

        ---------------------------------

        1. "The key to success of our PowerKords is KIMBER's unique cable weave which has proven to dramatically reduce Radio Frequency Interference (RFI) already on the mains supply and to reject further pick up of RFI ...", because he believed the PowerKord cable would have little affect on conducted electromagnetic interference;
        2. "... Distortion levels inside equipment is vastly reduced, letting you hear a sound that is vastly clearer and purer, more detailed and far more dynamic ...", because he believed the Signature PowerKord cable would have little affect on measurable distortion in hi-fi equipment, and
        3. "... eliminate system sound fluctuation and help to create a super-quiet noise floor, allowing more believable dynamics, deeper bass and lower high frequency distortion ... Listen out for a quieter noise floor (expect more dynamic music and greater detail) and a much more cohesive musical sound ...", because he believed the advertised spike-protecting devices would have little affect on the noise floor in hi-fi equipment.



        The ASA considered the case, asked for Expert Witness opinion and concluded - (quote)


        "3. Upheld
        Our expert considered that [the advertiser] had not supplied any supporting evidence to prove that the noise floor in the audio signal chain was lowered by the advertised devices. He said it had shown that the noise floor on the mains supply could be reduced, but this appeared to be common modes. He understood differential modes were actually more significant than common modes and believed the devices were not dealing with the biggest cause of mains supply spikes. He said no evidence had been provided to show that spike-protecting devices affected audio signals, as opposed to mains voltages. The expert believed it was possible to test the noise floor of a system objectively without perceptual testing and believed this could be done for both a standard mains cable and the Mega/Super Clamp Ultra and the results compared. We considered that the evidence submitted was not sufficiently robust to show that spike-protecting devices would eliminate system sound fluctuation and help create a super-quiet noise floor. We concluded that the ad was misleading.

        Action
        We told [the advertiser] not use the claims again unless they could substantiate them with robust scientific evidence."

        -----------------------------

        I do not want to comment on this particular case, but I do want to draw your attention to the fact that we have been promoting the Scientific Method here. I feel sorry for customers who have invested in fancy cables etc. who may now be concerned if their investment was a wise one.

        In my listening set-up I have a low-level buzz audible 30cms from the speakers due to some oddity of my earthing arrangement. As I listen 2m+ away from the speakers, this buzz is completely inaudible and is masked by all music. I simply don't have the time or interest in rewiring the whole building to resolve this minute issue ... I just live with it!
        Alan A. Shaw
        Designer, owner
        Harbeth Audio UK

        Comment


        • #64
          Re: Cables for your Harbeths (general, not specific Harbeth models)

          i have a question for everybody, there is someone that have tried HARMONIC TECH CABLE (pro 11 plus or fantasy speakers cable) with harbeth? thank you
          Pava - italy

          Comment


          • #65
            Re: Cables for your Harbeths (general, not specific Harbeth models)

            Hi Fellow Harbethians

            Has anyone used or had any experience with Van Damme speaker cables? I read somewhere that these cables are used by BBC in their studios. The cables are relatively inexpensive and are recommended by some big audio manufacturers, Bryston for example.

            Best Regards
            Dennis

            Comment


            • #66
              Re: Cables for your Harbeths (general, not specific Harbeth models)

              Originally posted by denjo View Post
              Hi Fellow Harbethians

              Has anyone used or had any experience with Van Damme speaker cables? I read somewhere that these cables are used by BBC in their studios. The cables are relatively inexpensive and are recommended by some big audio manufacturers, Bryston for example.

              Best Regards
              Dennis
              Hi Dennis, where can we get hold of these cables in s'pore?

              Comment


              • #67
                Re: Cables for your Harbeths (general, not specific Harbeth models)

                Hi CK

                Please check your pm for reply.

                Best Regards
                Dennis

                Comment


                • #68
                  Re: UK cable supplier reported to Advertising Standards Authority

                  Originally posted by A.S. View Post
                  I feel sorry for customers who have invested in fancy cables etc. who may now be concerned if their investment was a wise one.
                  [/COLOR][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]
                  Hi Alan,

                  I'm enjoying the C7ES3 tremendously and I have utmost respect for you as a speaker designer. However, I have to say that I don't understand your derisive attitude towards "fancy" cables. After all you have also used more fancy cables for your recent anniversary models - and charged a premium for them. (I hope this doesn't sound offensive but my sincere apology if it does)

                  "Fancy" can be very subjective too; for some here, anything beyond Qed79 is exotic. It'll be helpful to hear your definition of "exotic" cables and what are the cables you've used to voice your designs.

                  Thanks.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Re: UK cable supplier reported to Advertising Standards Authority

                    Easy to answer: as a commercial business we're asked to make variations of connectors, cables, packing etc. etc. and if the disruption to production is negligible, and the customer will cover the cost, we'll give it serious consideration. Some users - people I trust - are absolutely certain that changes to the internal cable make a big difference to the sound. We've tried really hard to debate this logically but have always lost the argument to their absolute conviction. The customer is willing to pay for 'fancy' internal cables; we'll fit them and so everyone is happy.

                    What do I use? Next to me now is the prototype pair of M40.1 playing Diana Krall's 'A night in Paris'. I've just traced the cables from speaker to amp. Both cable-runs have two joints. there is 4 or 5m of OFC black sheath (brand unknown) connected to about 1m of internal-wire (on the right speaker) and about 0.5m of unknown transparent (OFC?) on the left, and finally on each side about 2m of what seems to be 79 strand. Sounds rather good!

                    My definition of 'exotic'? My definition would be speaker cable that costs more than, say, USD 20/mtr. That's a number plucked from the air. As I've said before, it's a consumer's paradise. If you get more pleasure from using fancy cables then use them. I don't because they don't 'do' anything for me - they don't add a molecule of pleasure to the recording.

                    The point I want to convey again is that the user should not feel under any pressure to invest a ton of money in your new Harbeths and then feel that he must invest another ton in fancy cables - or stands - or anything. I guarantee that your Harbeths are going to work just great with basic '79 strand' or equivalent because that's what I as their designer use. Ask your dealer for his advice on good basic value-for-money cables.

                    One thing to add - never, during the entire fifty year history of the BBC's involvement with speaker design employing the world's best audio engineers was the subject of speaker cable ever mentioned, discussed, analysed or given any elevated status. Providing that the cables were adequately thick (for the current and length) that was the end of the matter. Don't you think that if this was a really significant matter that one - just one - of those pragmatic boffins at some point over the fifty years would have taken a look at it? We cannot accuse them of being blinkered or narrow minded when that very group of researchers posed and solved the revolutionary question 'do you think that we could improve fidelity if we replaced paper speaker cones with one made from plastic? Imagine my surprise (as a then audiophile) when upon taking over at Harbeth I discovered that our founder used telephone cable inside his MK1,2,3,4 speakers. But it met his criteria of low resistance (for a short length) and colour coding.
                    Alan A. Shaw
                    Designer, owner
                    Harbeth Audio UK

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Re: Cables for your Harbeths (general, not specific Harbeth models)

                      do agree that harbeth speakers are not super fussy when it comes to cabling. They do not need hi end cables to sound good. However they are revealing enough to tell differences in various cable designs and manufacturers.
                      I personally had success with a bunch of cables I tried over the years. To name a few:

                      a.) Analysis plus theater oval 12s, Oval 12s, Oval 9s.
                      b.) Audience au24s
                      c.) Auditorium 23s
                      d.) Purist Audio Design Museus, Aqueous Anniversary
                      e.) Speltz Anti-cables
                      f.) Acoustic Zen Satori

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Re: Cables for your Harbeths (general, not specific Harbeth models)

                        Hi Pava,
                        I was using the pro 11 plus cabling with some Proac studio 110 speakers prior to owning my current faves- the Harbeth C-7s'. It was a decent enough speaker cable mated up to the proacs foreward presentation. I will however, venture that the H.T. cable would be too subdued or mellow for the Harbeths to be considered ideal. ( I did sell the H.T. cable along with the Prozacs - not my cup o' tee )
                        At this time I'm considering a more assertive cable for the C-7s'; perhaps silver wire?

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Re: Cables for your Harbeths (general, not specific Harbeth models)

                          Harbethians

                          Has anyone used the Van Damme Hi-fi series speaker cables? Here is their website www.van-damme.com

                          They seem pretty decent and their list of illustrious customers using their cables is very impressive. If studios are using their cables, I think this would be good endorsement of a great product. A bonus point is how inexpensive these cables are compared to some exotic cables out there!

                          Would like to hear from anyone who has experience with these cables.

                          Best Regards
                          Dennis

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Re: Cables for your Harbeths (general, not specific Harbeth models)

                            To digiphobe,

                            I use the relatively inexpensive DH Labs Q-10 (which is siver coated over copper) with my C7s and from what you say, it may be what you're looking for. (I actually prefer it to some more expensive cable which I own.)

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Re: Cables for your Harbeths (general, not specific Harbeth models)

                              Agree. I have no doubt the C7ES3 worked really well with humble cables. Even with Rega Quattro, it stunned me enough to buy it and put everything else I've auditioned that's remotely near it's price and sometimes way beyond to shame.

                              NACA5 served me for over a decade in my last system and changing cables never crossed my mind;until someone inserted a better cable to reveal that the C7ES3 is capable of much more.

                              BTW, how would you compare the AU24 to Anti-cables?

                              The Anti-IC worked surprisingly well in my system and I'm quite keen to try their speaker cables. Do you used them with spades or raw and tinned?

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Re: Cables for your Harbeths (general, not specific Harbeth models)

                                Originally posted by denjo View Post
                                Hi Fellow Harbethians

                                Has anyone used or had any experience with Van Damme speaker cables? I read somewhere that these cables are used by BBC in their studios. The cables are relatively inexpensive and are recommended by some big audio manufacturers, Bryston for example.

                                Best Regards
                                Dennis

                                Hi, can you tell me where I can find some of these cables in Singapore? Thanks!

                                Comment

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