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HUG - here for all audio enthusiasts

Since its inception ten years ago, the Harbeth User Group's ambition has been to create a lasting knowledge archive. Knowledge is based on facts and observations. Knowledge is timeless. Knowledge is human independent and replicatable. However, we live in new world where thanks to social media, 'facts' have become flexible and personal. HUG operates in that real world.

HUG has two approaches to contributor's Posts. If you have, like us, a scientific mind and are curious about how the ear works, how it can lead us to make the right - and wrong - decisions, and about the technical ins and outs of audio equipment, how it's designed and what choices the designer makes, then the factual area of HUG is for you. The objective methods of comparing audio equipment under controlled conditions has been thoroughly examined here on HUG and elsewhere and can be easily understood and tried with negligible technical knowledge.

Alternatively, if you just like chatting about audio and subjectivity rules for you, then the Subjective Soundings sub-forum is you. If upon examination we think that Posts are better suited to one sub-forum than than the other, they will be redirected during Moderation, which is applied throughout the site.

Questions and Posts about, for example, 'does amplifier A sounds better than amplifier B' or 'which speaker stands or cables are best' are suitable for the Subjective Soundings area.

The Moderators' decision is final in all matters regarding what appears here. That said, very few Posts are rejected. HUG Moderation individually spell and layout checks Posts for clarity but due to the workload, Posts in the Subjective Soundings area, from Oct. 2016 will not be. We regret that but we are unable to accept Posts that present what we consider to be free advertising for products that Harbeth does not make.

That's it! Enjoy!

{Updated Nov. 2016A}
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advice for cd player

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  • #16
    There's also the option of a cheaper Macbook air with solid state drive? Or possibly run from an external USB drive in another room? They're also nice machines. I'm writing this from a 17" Macbook Pro and can recommend them for general use...

    Although for hi-fi I'd still recommend the CD player route!

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    • #17
      Originally posted by garmtz View Post
      Stream your music using a Linn Majik DS, it's better than CD-players costing several times more!
      Repeating myself... ;) Try it! The Linn is a great match with Leben and Harbeth, as I have listened to this combination the last few days. You also might track down a Linn Majik CD, a great CD player!

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by garmtz View Post
        Repeating myself... ;) Try it! The Linn is a great match with Leben and Harbeth, as I have listened to this combination the last few days. You also might track down a Linn Majik CD, a great CD player!
        Let's all bare in mind that garmtz makes his living from selling people Linn equipment!

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        • #19
          Originally posted by macraddy View Post
          Let's all bare in mind that garmtz makes his living from selling people Linn equipment!
          I'm sure that was meant light-heartedly, but I'll point out that Alan Shaw makes his living from selling people Harbeth speakers, and I think we would all give his words a fair bit of weight.

          The fact that you have a personal interest in something doesn't necessarily make what you say untrue.

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          • #20
            See if you can audition Opera Consonance CD 120. Its a filter less non-oversampling cdp without an opamp. This might fit your need for a cdp with vinyl like presentation.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by EricW View Post
              I'm sure that was meant light-heartedly, but I'll point out that Alan Shaw makes his living from selling people Harbeth speakers, and I think we would all give his words a fair bit of weight.

              The fact that you have a personal interest in something doesn't necessarily make what you say untrue.
              ...Or unbias?

              harbeth related ones excepted :-)

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              • #22
                Kittykat: "untrue" and "unbiased" are two completely different things. I expect that Alan Shaw (for example) has a degree of bias in favour of Harbeths. To be expected. The ultimate question, of course, is whether he's right to hold that bias.

                Bias, if it exists, exists prior to judgment and hence can influence judgment, but doesn't inevitably do so. Particularly in a competitive market, a degree of bias has to co-exist with a degree of objectivity, because if you're out of touch with reality, your competitors will eat you up.

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                • #23
                  Hi EricW. Totally agree with you and I didn’t say they are similar.

                  Having vested interests does make certain predispositions in opinion more likely, not necessarily to the extent of telling fibs. It could be just a simple blurring of distinction between fact and fiction. The former could be “I am impartial and I did listen reasonably extensively across different candidates and am comfortable to make this recommendation” to a latter extreme of “I think this is a good cd player and as such ill recommend it” or even more extreme case of “im a distributor for this brand and as such ill recommend it on this forum”.

                  And you are right, if a bias is out of line it will result in eventual annihilation but it would have caused damage to a lot of people’s pockets in the interim.

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                  • #24
                    Hi kittykat: you'll get no argument from me, because I entirely agree with you as well.

                    I must admit, I initially thought that perhaps macraddy had taken a bit more of a shot at garmtz than warranted, hence my first response.

                    But perhaps to repeatedly recommend a product that you have a personal (business) interest in promoting (though pretty indirect in garmtz's case, I would have thought), without disclosing that interest, is not the right thing to do. It may be done innocently, but if so, why not disclose. It would avoid misunderstanding.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by EricW View Post
                      I'm sure that was meant light-heartedly, but I'll point out that Alan Shaw makes his living from selling people Harbeth speakers, and I think we would all give his words a fair bit of weight.

                      The fact that you have a personal interest in something doesn't necessarily make what you say untrue.
                      Absolutely true - but Alan Shaw wouldn't make unscientific statements that cannot be substantiated by using absolutes such ‘better’, especially when being concerned with the subjective nature of music reproduction...
                      (And my tongue is firmly in my cheek! I personally know hi-fi dealers who operate this way and some customers do respond to it.)

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                      • #26
                        My recommendations really are not intended to be commercial, as I live in The Netherlands and have no way of selling you Linn equipment. It is just out of me having tried a lot of equipment on Harbeth speakers and sharing this with the community. Admittedly, I have not tried EVERYTHING on the market, but I think neither have most consumers.

                        I will refrain from making recommendations then from now on.

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                        • #27
                          Hi Garmtz, I've enjoyed reading your recommendations.Please continue.I'm sure your intentions were honorable.

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                          • #28
                            garmtz, I would echo Drew. I think recommendations from people who have personal experience with various equipment are always valuable and helpful. Unfortunately, we live in a cynical world. Maybe, to counter that, just add a brief sentence noting that you are a Linn (or whatever) dealer. Then everyone can decide for him- or herself how many grains of salt to add, but we don't all lose the benefit of your insight.

                            After all, even if someone is only the purchaser/owner of a piece of equipment, he/she could be said to be "biased" in favour of it by that fact alone, because who wants to admit they made a bad choice? So where are we going to find a panel of neutral, objective, well-informed judges who have absolutely no bias, and no personal interest in what they're writing about? Seems like an unrealistic plan to me.

                            And macraddy, actually, if you were to parse Alan's language strictly, you might find some of his language to be "unscientific" as well. Words such as "warm", "full", "rich", "uncoloured" etc. are not scientific in and of themselves. I don't think you can describe human experiences - which is ultimately what we're concerned with - in purely scientific terms (whatever those might be), even if you can maybe find scientific correlates for those experiences.

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                            • #29
                              Fair enough EricW, thanks! DrewTuner, Cheers!

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