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Stands for your Harbeths

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  • Re: Stands for your Harbeths

    Originally posted by skylan View Post
    Hi David,

    The Compact -7. requires 20" (510) stands.

    The P-3. requires 26" (660) stands.

    Also,

    HL-5. requires 18" (460) stands

    M-40.1 requires around 14" (350) stands.

    Height is with feet fitted.

    Regards,
    Noel.

    With my M40s, I have used stands from 11" to 24" in height. In my room, with my M40s and the room's strong bass standing waves, I've found that "higher is better" as long as you have a chair that can get your ears up high enough to be even with the tweeter. With the speakers higher, the bass evens out a bit and the overall presentation is bigger, more open, and more three-dimensional sounding. I have a Steelcase Leap chair with a pneumatic lift. With the chair at full-up extension, I can sit comfortably with my ears high enough to use a 24" stand.

    I also have found that, with my concrete floor under the carpet of this room, extremely rigid stands spiked through the carpet down to the concrete do not perform as well as stands with a bit more "give." Greater rigidity just unnaturally etches the highs.

    The best speaker stands I've found for the M40s--and I've used everything from plastic milk crates to wooden stools to Sound Anchor, Skylan, and custom-fabricated fiberglass and have experimented with various ways of interfacing the stand to the speakers and the floor--are a pair of Allison 24" counter stools with square wooden tops that are slightly smaller than the M40 footprint. I got these at Target for about $50 the pair. While this exact stool no longer seems to be available, something very similar looking is here:

    http://www.barstools.com/counter-hei...toolsetof2.cfm

    I use a single layer of terrycloth toweling as an interface between the bottom of the speakers and the top of the stool and let the stand legs sit atop the carpet. Given the weight of the speakers, the stand legs make impressions in the carpet, but there is still a small amount of "give" between the stand and the floor. And while the stand is quite sturdy, it is not the ultimate in rigidity. This arrangement is the best sounding I've heard with my M40s in this room.

    Comment


    • Re: Stands for your Harbeths

      I'd like to share some recent changes and results with you guys. I have SHL5's on solid cherry 4 post stands, each post is 4x4 inches and there is no platform on top. When I first got my Harbeths I put a thick tile on the stands to act as a base, the tile was applied to the stand with blu-tak and the speaker to the tile with blue tak as well. I've lived with this for over a year and the sound is very good. A few nights ago I decided to take the tile bases off the stands and mount the speakers directly onto the four post using some little plastic floor protectors with felts on them.
      The difference in sound was quite apparent right away and the way it was apparent made sense to me. The Harbeth cabinet is made to dissipate considerable energy from its panels, one just has to walk around the speaker and touch it to realize this is a distinct feature of the design and one can really sense the immediacy this creates. I think the bottom panel being on a large, flat surface inhibits the way the speaker dissipates energy, or at least the effects of transfering that energy to another panel, the stand, is less predictable and could cause some response anomalies. The sound on the open stand now has more bass, more "wood" in the sound, better image, and seems to have more volume given the speaker is less damped, the speaker seems to breath better and has more life. So, to me, open frame stands seem to give the best performance based on my experience.

      Comment


      • Re: Stands for your Harbeths

        Is it possible to post a photo or drawing of this?

        Comment


        • Re: Stands for your Harbeths

          With my 40s and now with my 40.1s I have always used Skylan stands. After switching to the 40.1 I cut the posts to make an overall height of 14".
          I also found that by using a towel between the speaker and stand muffled the sound and I have gotten excellent results by incorporating Star Sound devices in with my Skylans.
          I am using the coupling discs on the floor and 4 2" threaded Audio Points for stand feet. I countersunk 3 brass thread inserts into the top of both stands, 2 in the front corners and 1 in the middle back and screwed in coupling discs to these inserts. The speakers are sitting on 3 .2AP.7D Audio Points which are resting on the coupling discs. The posts are filled with Star Sounds micro bearing steel fill.

          Comment


          • Re: Stands for your Harbeths

            I will post some pics of my system as soon as I can so you guys can get a look.

            Comment


            • Re: Stands for your Harbeths

              Comments from Moray James

              Speaker stand mass loading alternative materials...

              I was fortunate enough to be visiting Noel Nolan of Skylan stands several weeks ago and he was working on some alternate ideas for damping both speaker and rack columns. Noel has had numerous requests from customers looking for possible alternatives for sand and kitty litter used in mass loading/damping. We listened to a series of speaker stands the columns damped with a number of different weight high density open cell foam blocks. The blocks of foam are cut oversized and run the length of the Polymer column. Noel had devised a clever insertion device which wrapped the foam plug compressing it thus permitting the entire block of foam to be totally inserted into the column and the jig removed. This insured that the oversized foam block makes perfect smooth contact with the column walls. I actually tried to insert one of the large blocks of foam into a column by hand after suggesting that the jig was probably not necessary. Well after skinning my hand badly and not being able to get the foam placed even half way down the column I had to admit that Noel's clever jig was exactly what was required.

              We auditioned the foam damped speaker stands against a reference set of Noel's stands and were both surprised as to the impact of the open cell foam. No the foam is not up to reference standard but when compared to the same stand with empty columns there was a noticeable improvement. Next we moved on to the foam inserted into Noel's MDF rack columns. Here was a big surprise because the improvement was more apparent than we had found with the Polymer columns. This turned out to be as a result to the stiffness of the MDF compared to the Polymer column material. After a few hours of listening we began to discuss possible alternates to sand and kitty litter for customers who have a difficult time locating either of these products. After a pint of Guinness the idea of Rice as a mass loading material came up. Off we went to the food store and bought a 20 Kg bag of discount rice. Turns out that the 20 Kg bag was perfect to fill all eight columns of the stands holding up Noel's Harbeth HL5's. The result was vastly superior to the foam damped stands and surprisingly good compared to the reference sand damped stands which include specially damped tops and bases.

              While the rice filled stands are not quite as efficient in terms of damping as is sand fill Noel was aware that many Harbeth owners find that full column sand damping makes for just a bit too much bass energy. Half filling is a pain to do and this is exactly what prompted Noel to recommend filling the stands with kitty litter. After some time though many found that even filling half way with kitty litter there was still a bit too much bass energy. So it was we next compared a set of four post stands, one set half filled with kitty litter and the other entirely filled with rice. This was an interesting comparison as the rice filled stands sounded clearer and cleaner with more controlled and articulate bass than that obtained with the half filled kitty liter stands. The rice stands actually weighed more than the kitty litter stands. While the rice is not as effective in damping due to particle friction (compared to either kitty litter or sand) the added volume results in increased mass which worked out to be an almost perfect combination. The especially nice part of all this is that the rice (we uses long grain just incase you were wondering) is inexpensive and easy to obtain all over the world at any food store. Combine the fact that you don't have to pre measure anything as with half filling with sand or kitty litter you just buy a 20 Kg bag of rice and fill all four columns up to the top and you are done. The rice is especially easy and clean to work with and there is no surface scratches as can happen with sand plus any spillage is picked up a jiffy.

              Stand / Speaker interface experiments...

              Fast forward to today, after allowing the rice in the test stands to fully settle into place for a few weeks we decided to experiment with speaker / stand interfaces. The Skylan stand comes fitted with Polyurethane tabs (four small disks, one at each corner of the stand top plate). The magnetic disks are about a centimeter in diameter and approximately 3 mm thick, just high enough to clear the Polyurethane pads. We listened to a selection of tracks of various kinds of music with the speakers seated upon the stock Polyurethane tabs. This was our reference sound. Next we placed the loudspeakers (Noel's Harbeth HL5's) up on three small ceramic disk magnets. The choice of material here was for several reasons, the small ceramic disk magnets are easy to find (most folks need only look on the fridge door) and also because they are very hard, being a sintered ceramic material. We placed a layer of electricians PVC tape on each side of the magnet disks to provide a small compression interface between the cabinet and the stand surface (Scotch tape would likely do as well). The three disks were positioned with two at the front corners of the stand top plate and the third disk in the centre of the rear of the stand top plate. This results in a tripod configuration and is very stable but more importantly results in a significant increase in the mass per disk that would otherwise be obtained using four disks.

              The result was an immediate improvement in bass weight and control along with improved focus of sound stage. Voices and instruments now had a clearer place within the sound stage. We next moved the two front magnet disks to the top of the metal threaded inserts (the ones the column rods screw into) on the top plate and left the central disk at the rear of the top plate as before. The idea here was to increase the hard coupling of the speaker to the stand (top plate, coupling rod, base plate, spikes and floor). Placing the magnetic disks onto the column rod inserts couples more energy to the stand via the threaded rod. This also couples more energy into the column damping material. This position resulted in further improvements in bass articulation as well as dynamics. Spatial cues were clearer and the sound stage opened up even further than was noticed with the previous disk position. As with all things your personal taste, likes and dislikes will come into play. I think that you may find experimenting with these ideas could result in enhancing the level of your listening enjoyment. I hope that this posting has been of interest and use. Best regards Moray James.

              Comment


              • Re: Stands for your Harbeths

                Great post! In my experiments, using cones with the point down directly onto the stand and using the one cone at the front, not at the back (most energy is in the front and coupling through a single point is more effective), proves very effective, especially in making the sound less 'heavy'/slow and more transparent.

                Comment


                • Re: Stands for your Harbeths

                  Anyone who knows the stands used here?

                  Comment


                  • Re: Stands for your Harbeths

                    Those stands are "Guizu" stands from China.

                    http://www.guizu.com.cn/production/c...atid=7&prid=64

                    Comment


                    • Re: Stands for your Harbeths

                      Originally posted by jim123 View Post
                      Those stands are "Guizu" stands from China.

                      http://www.guizu.com.cn/production/c...atid=7&prid=64
                      Thank You very much!

                      Comment


                      • Re: Stands for your Harbeths

                        There might be an easier way than to build stands from scratch. Modifying Ikea furniture as speaker stands might be a solution. There are two suitable Ikea kits which might fit the bill. One is more suitable for smaller speakers, ie. Molger shelving (5 shelf) made of clear stained lacquered walnut. It originally measures 37 (d) x 37(w) x140 (h). The longest pieces (which make up the height) will need to be cut to a required height for your speaker. The width and depth will also need to be shortened to suit your speaker?s dimension. The cross braces will need to be cut to the suitable width and depth as well. Ditch the slats.

                        Another kit which would be a stronger but would be a more expensive solution would be to use the Norden bench (originally 150(l) x35 (w) x 45 (h)) but you?ll need 2 of these for a pair of speakers. This time, cut the length of the bench to suit the width of your speaker. The height of this kit is just nice for the SHL5 if you attach some speaker spikes.

                        Happy modifying.

                        Comment


                        • Hand made, recommended stands for M40.1 etc...

                          At the last CES show we we most impressed with the hand made Resonant Woods stands. These do not claim any exotic voodoo but they are beautifully made by a really gifted American craftsman, Brooks Tanner who we have become very friendly with at these past CES shows.

                          Of course, handmade eucalyptus, chgerry and walnut stands take time, care and love to produce so they are not in the Skylan cost range, but they are beautiful. And Brooks is s fine man who deserves to have his semi-custom stands in your homes with our speakers. He can adjust the design a little, and the materials and the interface with the speaker to taste. The basic stand has simple threaded spikes (like Skylan) on the base, with a brass puck between the speaker and stand.

                          As a indication, a pair of these stands would take Brooks about three days - yes, three days - solid work (as Brooks says, a crazy amount of time but he is a perfectionist) and on a direct-sale basis the M40.1 stands wil cost you from $1600-1800/pair plus shipping. Fantastic value with genuine pride of ownership. Strongly recommeneded by me for the beautiful workmanship.

                          Brooks' web site is here and you can reach him through the website info.
                          Alan A. Shaw
                          Designer, owner
                          Harbeth Audio UK

                          Comment


                          • Re: Stands for your Harbeths

                            A $10,495 Acoustic Revive speaker stand, 22 times more than the Skylan stand! Probably 300 times more than a pair of Ikea ler!

                            http://www.positive-feedback.com/Iss...tic_revive.htm

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by A.S. View Post
                              Um. Let me think: I guess we stopped making the wooden stands at least 7 years ago. The (commercial) problems were twofold: first, the cost. There is far more hand work in making veneered wooden stands than you would imagine. Second, the problems of veneer matching. Veneer oxidises with time depending on the listening room's light level, temperature etc. , and darkens. A customer who purchase the speaker and stands some time apart may not be satisfied with the veneer match - and this is problematic for everyone in the sales chain.
                              Hello Alan,

                              To solve the maching color problem an easy way could be to produce only wood stand in a black color

                              My2cent

                              Comment


                              • Hi everyone, just ordered my first pair of Harbeth Compact 7es (in Rosewood). Very exciting!

                                For stands I am not sure what to do - can anyone recommend the 'Something Solid XF' stands? They are custom made in the UK.

                                I do like the look of the Skylans too - what is the average lead time from order to receipt?

                                Comment

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