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HUG - here for all audio enthusiasts

Since its inception ten years ago, the Harbeth User Group's ambition has been to create a lasting knowledge archive. Knowledge is based on facts and observations. Knowledge is timeless. Knowledge is human independent and replicatable. However, we live in new world where thanks to social media, 'facts' have become flexible and personal. HUG operates in that real world.

HUG has two approaches to contributor's Posts. If you have, like us, a scientific mind and are curious about how the ear works, how it can lead us to make the right - and wrong - decisions, and about the technical ins and outs of audio equipment, how it's designed and what choices the designer makes, then the factual area of HUG is for you. The objective methods of comparing audio equipment under controlled conditions has been thoroughly examined here on HUG and elsewhere and can be easily understood and tried with negligible technical knowledge.

Alternatively, if you just like chatting about audio and subjectivity rules for you, then the Subjective Soundings sub-forum is you. If upon examination we think that Posts are better suited to one sub-forum than than the other, they will be redirected during Moderation, which is applied throughout the site.

Questions and Posts about, for example, 'does amplifier A sounds better than amplifier B' or 'which speaker stands or cables are best' are suitable for the Subjective Soundings area.

The Moderators' decision is final in all matters regarding what appears here. That said, very few Posts are rejected. HUG Moderation individually spell and layout checks Posts for clarity but due to the workload, Posts in the Subjective Soundings area, from Oct. 2016 will not be. We regret that but we are unable to accept Posts that present what we consider to be free advertising for products that Harbeth does not make.

That's it! Enjoy!

{Updated Nov. 2016A}
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World's highest quality on-line classical music feed (BBC Radio 3)

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Mike Smith View Post
    No real need now it is clear which is best.

    Mike.
    If you are suggesting that a 320kb/s AAC stream must necessarily be better than a 192 kb/s WMA stream I suggest that view is too simple.

    If you are comparing the two BBC streams, that is probably truth, but if you were to compare the BBC Radio 3 HD 320kb/s AAC stream with (say) the WDR3 stream at 256kb/s MP3 it could go either way, and might easily depend on how the signal had been processed in the studio before transmission.

    Once above a certain bit rate, dynamic compression (limiting the range of soft to loud) kills the music more than digital compression (bitrate and CODEC).

    Comment


    • #17
      The BBC Radio 3 HD stream Alan referenced at the top of this thread seems to be off at the moment.

      Some said it would be a short lived bonus.

      The iPlayer R3 HD stream is still working - for UK IP addresses.

      ---

      I referenced the D-Dur OGG-FLAC and OGG streams earlier

      The technical stuff about D-Dur is here

      http://www.cesnet.cz/doc/techzpravy/...flac-encoding/

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Labarum View Post
        The BBC Radio 3 HD stream Alan referenced at the top of this thread seems to be off at the moment.
        http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/listen/live/r3_aaclca.pls

        It's back as I type this message!

        Comment


        • #19
          I confirm that. Great news. And it is still available internationally. I have just turned my VPN off to check.

          Comment


          • #20
            Listening to the Wigmore Gala Concert on the BBC HD stream

            http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b011j85x

            Quite excellent.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Labarum View Post
              Listening to the Wigmore Gala Concert on the BBC HD stream

              http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b011j85x

              Quite excellent.
              Am in United States and like before, we are still unable to call up the HD stream. The BBC HD server responds with "Not available in your area".

              QUESTION: Is the BBC Radio 3 HD stream of higher audio quality than the http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/listen/live/r3_aaclca.pls AAC 320 kbps 44100HZ stereo stream that Alan posted?

              Comment


              • #22
                I have just tested "that" stream - Alan's stream - which I was listening to last night.

                Code:
                http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/listen/live/r3_aaclca.pls
                It worked in Foobar from my laptop in Cyprus with my VPN off.

                If you click the buttons in the BBC iPlayer webpage for "HD" you probably wont get it as it's locked up in Flash and limited to UK.

                You have to cut and paste the url for the stream into a music software player that will handle AAC like Foobar, Songbird, iTunes; or into a hardware internet radio like Squeezebox - that's why I have sent the urls in "code", to make it easy to cut and paste.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Labarum View Post
                  I have just tested "that" stream - Alan's stream - which I was listening to last night.

                  Code:
                  http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/listen/live/r3_aaclca.pls
                  .
                  Have edited and clarified my post to indicate the same. Alan's stream plugs into Foobar and plays without any problem.
                  However, it is the BBC HD stream that we in the United States are unable to play, as Labarum has noted.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    To clarify further "Alan's Stream" IS the BBC Radio 3 HD stream accessed directly - you have to copy it manually into the media player.

                    Exactly the same stream is accessed by clicking the R3 HD button on the webpage, but if you do it that way, the 320kb/s AAC stream is locked up in the Flash routines of the BBC iPlayer, and it is iPlayer that sets the territorial restrictions.

                    If you are in UK you will receive the HD data by either means.

                    If you are outside the UK you must copy the URL into your media player of choice that will handle the AAC format.

                    If you are outside the UK but use a VPN to give yourself a UK IP address you will receive the HD data by either means.

                    ---

                    If you use a Squeezebox install the iPlayer Plugin by Triode (not the App) and you will access the HD stream at 320kb/s from a UK IP address.

                    Once the plugin is installed go to "BBC iPlayer" in the Squeezebox web interface. Look at the bottom of the page for "Special Events" and click.

                    Choose "Listen Live - AAC Test Streams" - There you will see the whole family of BBC AAC streams.

                    Choose Radio 3 and (probably) save it as a favourite.

                    Only Radio 3 streams at 320kb/s - the rest seem to be 128kb/s.

                    You can also copy "Alan's url" into the manual tune feature of the Squeezebox and save as a favourite.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Supersnake View Post
                      Is the BBC Radio 3 HD stream of higher audio quality than the http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/listen/live/r3_aaclca.pls AAC 320 kbps 44100HZ stereo stream that Alan posted?
                      Originally posted by Labarum View Post
                      To clarify further "Alan's Stream" IS the BBC Radio 3 HD stream accessed directly ....
                      Aha! I was hoping that they would be the same stream, thank you.
                      Am now a more happy Yank knowing that I too am able to listen to the BBC Radio 3 HD stream, via Alan's url of course (smile).

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Live tonight! Radio 3 from BBC's new Manchester studios

                        Not to be missed! The BBC Philharmonic Play Music from Your Favouite Films etc. including Star Wars.

                        More info here.

                        Be sure to listen in 320kb AAC "HD SOUND" direct from the BBC website

                        www.bbc.co.uk/radio3

                        Suggestion. If you are recording for your own listening later, considering wide dynamic range on AAC feed using TotalRecorder set record boost to no more than +8dB to avoid clipping. (May not apply on every computer).

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Users outside the UK will not be able to access the BBC HD stream by clicking the button on the webpage quoted above.

                          They need to cut and paste the URL below into a music player that will process AAC.

                          Code:
                          http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/listen/live/r3_aaclca.pls

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Capturing an AAC audio stream and saving for replay later

                            Do you have a suggestion (other than TotalRecorder which we are familiar with) for how to capture that stream, to save it for future private replay? We are not exactly sure how TR works, whether it captures and interprets the raw binary stream before/after the user's browser, the stream as it enters the sound card, in the sound card or at the sound card's output. Or maybe at none of those stages.
                            Last edited by HUG-1; 10-06-2011, 11:59 AM. Reason: We respect the Copyright in the original sound recording

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              I have never attempted to record such a stream.

                              1. I have used the iPlayer Listen Again feature as it is made available using the Squeezebox iPlayer plugin by Triode. That is not a recording to keep forever. I have never looked at what bitrate is available for a R3 "Listen Again". I suspect is is not the very best. I will ask in another place.

                              2. What will "Audacity" do? http://audacity.sourceforge.net/

                              Edit:

                              Just had a play with Audacity. I am sure it will do it provided you can access

                              "Stereo Mix", "Wave", or "What U hear" in your soundcard control pane.

                              I was looking for this feature for another purpose the other day and it is disabled in my laptop, and I cannot find the drivers to enable the feature.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Recording Radio Streams with VLC Player

                                After discussing a number of options with an expert in another place, here is a relatively simple digital recording method that uses free software.

                                VLC Media Player

                                If you do not have a copy download from here

                                http://www.vlcmediaplayer.org/download.html

                                The process is entirely automatic.

                                1. Start VLC.

                                It will probably start after installation.


                                2. From "Media" menu select "Convert/Save"

                                3. Click on "Network" Tab and copy the BBC R3 URL


                                Code:
                                http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/listen/live/r3_aaclca.pls

                                into the "Network URL" field. Then click on "Convert/Save" button at bottom.


                                You have now chosen the source of the recording, you must now specify the place to store it.

                                4. You now have a "Convert" dialog box with BBC3 URL in "source" field. Enter a file name with directory (e.g. "C:\BBC\SatConcert.flac") into the "Destination file" field.

                                More expert computer users will need no more instruction than above; but to expand. You now need to give the VLC Player a place to store the recorded music, and to give this recording a name.

                                In the "Convert" Pane that is now open, to the right of the "Destination" box, click "Browse". On the left scroll down till you see "Computer". Supposing you have only one Hard Disc click "Local Disc C". Click the RIGHT mouse button in the right side of the open window. You will now be offered options. Click "New" and then "Folder". Give the folder a name by typing in the highlighted box, and LEFT click on the box. Keep it simple. Maybe "BBC"? You now have a new folder on your hard drive (C:\BBC\) for storing your recorded radio programmes. This will serve for all future recordings.

                                Now your must give your first recording a name. Just below where you have made your new folder you will see a box called "File Name". Type in a unique name for the file you are about to record. eg
                                Concert1.flac, BachPno.flac SatPM.flac Notice they MUST all end dot flac (.flac)

                                In future you may chose not to use the "Browse" button, but just type in the FULL name for a new recording
                                e.g.
                                C:\BBC\WaterMus.flac , C:\BBC\SunJazz.flac C:\BBC\RecordReview11_06_11.flac


                                5. In "Settings" and "Profile" select "Audio - Flac" and also check the "Deinterlace" box. Then click "Start"


                                You have chosen a recording source, the BBC R3 HD stream off the Network; you have chosen a place to put the recording, and you have chosen a format in which to store it. The source started as a stream in high quality AAC format, which is a "lossy" format for efficient transmission over the internet. Now you want to store it without further lossy compression. You could store it as an uncompressed WAW file and the advanced features of the VLC player allow that, but FLAC is fine. It will store the recording without further loss and do it in half the space.

                                6. VLC screen will appear and no music will be played just the elapsed time incrementing if stream is converted.

                                7. Click stop button to stop conversion (recording).


                                To play your recording go to the "Media" tab on the VLC player and chose "Open File". If you do not see the file you have just recorded on the right use the left of the pane to go to "Computer/Local Drive C:/BBC" or whatever path (address) you chose earlier.

                                Click the file and it will play.

                                I have just tried all this, connected my laptop to my DAC by USB and the recording sounded very fine.

                                I am assured this recoding method does not modify the bitream in any way - what goes into the recording comes out.

                                If further help is needed post on this thread.

                                Please remember the Radio 3 HD stream accessed using the URL in this post is "experimental" and may come and go.

                                Acknowledgement: With many thanks to BPA on the Squeezebox Forum. His instructions to me are in bold.

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