Announcement

Collapse

INTRODUCTION - PLEASE READ FIRST TO UNDERSTAND THIS FORUM!

"This Harbeth User Group (HUG) is the Manufacturer's own managed forum dedicated to natural sound from microphone to ear, achievable by recognising and controlling the numerous confounding variables that exist along the audio chain. The Harbeth designer's objective is to make loudspeakers that contribute little of themselves to the music passing through them.

Identifying system components for their sonic neutrality should logically proceed from the interpretation and analysis of their technical, objective performance, since deviations from a flat frequency response at any point along the signal chain from microphone to ear is likely to create an audible sonic personality in what you hear. That includes the contribution of the listening room itself. To accurately reproduce the recorded sound, as Harbeth speakers are designed to do, you would be advised to select system components (sources, electronics, cables and so on) that do not color the sound before it reaches the speakers.

For example, the design of and interaction between the hifi amplifier and its speaker load can and potentially will alter the sound balance of what you hear. This may or may not be what you wish to achieve, but on the face of it, any deviation from a flat response - and the frequency balance of tube amplifiers are usually influenced by their speaker load - is a step away from a truly neutral system. HUG has extensively discussed amplifiers and the methods for seeking the most objectively neutral amongst a plethora of available product choices.

HUG specialises in making complex technical matters simple to understand, aiding the identification of audio components likely to maintain a faithful relationship between the recorded sound and the sound you hear. With our heritage of natural sound and pragmatism, HUG cannot be expected to be a place to discuss the selection, approval or endorsement of non-Harbeth system elements selected, knowingly or not, to create a significantly personalised sound. For that you should do your own research and above all, make the effort to visit an Authorised Dealer and listen to your music at your loudness on your loudspeakers through the various offerings there. There is really no on-line substitute for time invested in a dealer's showroom because 'tuning' your system to taste is such a highly personal matter.

Please consider carefully how much you should rely upon and be influenced by the subjective opinions of strangers. Their hearing acuity and taste will be different to yours, as will be their motives and budget, their listening distance, loudness and room treatment, not necessarily leading to appropriate equipment selection and listening satisfaction for you.

If faithfully reproducing the sound intended by the composer, score, conductor and musicians in your home and over Harbeth speakers is your audio dream, then understanding something of the issues likely to fulfill that intention is what this forum has been helping to do since 2006. Welcome!"


Feb. 2018
See more
See less

Soundproofing in walls

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Soundproofing in walls

    Hello,

    Will adding soundproofing inside walls help or hinder the sound quality attained in the listening room? Or will it not make a difference inside the room itself at all? Thank you.

  • #2
    Room treatment thread - 'wet' and 'dry'

    Originally posted by TSWisla View Post
    Hello,

    Will adding soundproofing inside walls help or hinder the sound quality attained in the listening room? Or will it not make a difference inside the room itself at all? Thank you.
    The answer is that it will depend on whether your room is a 'dry'* or 'wet'* acoustic to begin with. here is a good thread to read through which I remember on HUG. Other members may be able to point you to other useful threads.

    http://www.harbeth.co.uk/usergroup/s...ghlight=garage

    {Moderator's comment: * 'dry' or 'wet' acoustic spaces (rooms) tell us how little or much echo (reverberation) there is, sometimes achieved by design (concert tall) ro sometimes by accident (home room).}

    Comment


    • #3
      In wall absorption

      Well, the room in question is 3m wide by 4.8m long by 2.7m high. Looking at the speakers, the wall to the right is brick, the wall in back of the speakers is drywalled, the wall to the left is drywalled, the wall in front of the speakers has a large window and is drywalled. The back wall and the wall to the left can be filled with soundproofing materials. If it will hurt the acoustics, I will not do it. Thank you.

      Comment


      • #4
        Treatment in or on the walls

        Jeff, I was reading through the thread that you sent me. From a quick look it seems that it discusses building treatments and panels that go outside of walls.

        I am having a room build and I have the ability to add something like Rockwool INSIDE the walls. I was wondering if adding Rockwool to the inside of the walls would adversely or positively affect the sound quality in the room. Thank you.

        Comment


        • #5
          Treatment objective

          What do you want to achieve: a better acoustic for improved listening, or less noise for the neighbours?

          Comment


          • #6
            Insulation?

            Originally posted by willem View Post
            What do you want to achieve: a better acoustic for improved listening, or less noise for the neighbours?
            Willem makes a good point but there is an other factor to consider. Living here in the UK the prime concern would be heat insulation for any construction. If best insulation practice also serves to absorb unwanted sound energy all well and good. I do not know the climate where you live but you need to consider insulation properties.

            The "garage" thread I linked to should empower you to look up properties of the materials you are considering and see what effect on acoustics it may have.

            Comment


            • #7
              Treatment

              Thank you for the replies. This issue here not not about my neighbors or exterior wall treatments. I simply want the best acoustics for my listening room. The room is currently being built and the walls are wide open. I am considering the soundproofing as a measure to decrease how much noise travels throughout my house, but I will NOT consider doing the sound treatment if it will negatively affect my listening experience.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by TSWisla View Post
                Thank you for the replies. This issue here not not about my neighbors or exterior wall treatments. I simply want the best acoustics for my listening room. The room is currently being built and the walls are wide open. I am considering the soundproofing as a measure to decrease how much noise travels throughout my house, but I will NOT consider doing the sound treatment if it will negatively affect my listening experience.
                This is a very complex issue, and should not be undertaken by 'remote control' over the internet.

                The first question you have to ask yourself is what are you trying to achieve? Why not do what 99% of audiophiles do when it comes to room acoustics. Nothing. Just ignore the issue and pretend it doesn't exist. Soon enough your ear/brain will cease to hear problems.
                Alan A. Shaw
                Designer, owner
                Harbeth Audio UK

                Comment


                • #9
                  Soft furnishings

                  I found the extract from Gilbert Griggs' book most informative (he of the 1954/55 demonstrations with PJW discussed a few weeks ago).

                  I was interested to see that cinder blocks and modern suspended ceiling are fairly absorbent, although my cinderblock wall is painted which rather reduces the effect.

                  The BBC put a highly absorbent panel between the speakers, whereas most people these days might put hardwood furniture or a glass flat panel TV, which is quite the opposite of what you need.

                  Nothing beats soft furnishings and carpet with foam underlay.

                  I dealt with some large glass surfaces with bog-standard roller blinds. I got some recently from IKEA, 180cm x 200cm for £24 each. If your ceilings are fairly high, say over 2.5m, you don't really notice the blinds and they do a good job. It's not very scientific, but it works.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Wow, at a loss, really...

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Low frequencies

                      Originally posted by TSWisla View Post
                      Well, the room in question is 3m wide by 4.8m long by 2.7m high. Looking at the speakers, the wall to the right is brick, the wall in back of the speakers is drywalled, the wall to the left is drywalled, the wall in front of the speakers has a large window and is drywalled. The back wall and the wall to the left can be filled with soundproofing materials. If it will hurt the acoustics, I will not do it. Thank you.
                      Data exist which indicate that adding sound absorbing materials such as fiberglas insulation installed *behind* drywall may increase the absorption of sound (and thereby decrease the reverberation) at lower frequencies in a room. This would tend to improve - and not damage - the acoustical properties of rooms so treated, if the rooms were otherwise fairly reflective at lower frequencies. (But medium to higher frequency absorption would be affected scarcely at all.) See post # 9 in this link for related information: http://www.harbeth.co.uk/usergroup/s...ght=#post16558
                      [/U]

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Seeking advice

                        I am concerned at the potential for well intentioned although ultimately inappropriate advice being passed on. Any structural changes from a normal room may unwittingly degrade the acoustics and make subsequent in-wall remedial action difficult, very expensive and messy to correct, if even possible. It could also degrade the resale value of the property.

                        No physical adjustments to under-wall air space should be expected to make an automatic beneficial improvement in room acoustics. To begin to advance this a crystal clear understanding of what's wrong with the standard construction, octave band by octave band is needed, and some knowledge of the acoustic behaviour of panels flexing under the influence of sound. In-room or on-wall treatment can be experimented with and removed. Under-wall structural adjustments from normal would have to be right first time and in the absence of a clear objective and audio test equipment that is most unlikely.

                        In short, even change the number and position of dry-wall securing nails per panel and you could destabilise a carefully considered, best possible architectural acoustic design. Beware.

                        I still do not understand what sonic anxiety drives the need to consider adjusting the room under construction. What exactly is wrong with the living space ordinary householders are untroubled by and why not confine experimentation to in-room (removable) treatments?

                        My strong recommendation concerning adjustments to the walls themselves is to seek out a local architect with relevant experience, and engage his professional skills, which won't be cheap. HUG is not a substitute for that professional advice.
                        Alan A. Shaw
                        Designer, owner
                        Harbeth Audio UK

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Prompted by this website I have been skimming, dabbling not to mention overleaping huge slabs of reading matter in regards to “how we hear”. It is proving to be a very interesting and complex subject.

                          Recently I read some of Brian Moore’s “An Introduction to the Psychology of Hearing” with a dedicated chapter to Hi-Fi and music reproduction. He mentions the nature of sound reflections in a room. I think his observations went something like this, as long as it was not a long single sustained note of some duration, and the listener was seated somewhere with no less than 90cm free of reflective surfaces in any direction, the sound coming from the speakers will make its way to the ears before any room generated sound reflections have a chance to affect the sound you hear.

                          Moore also buttresses A.S’ argument in regards to adequate amplification and the fidelity of moderately priced commercially available amplifiers being sufficient to needs.

                          Comment

                          Working...
                          X