Announcement

Collapse

HUG - here for all audio enthusiasts

Since its inception ten years ago, the Harbeth User Group's ambition has been to create a lasting knowledge archive. Knowledge is based on facts and observations. Knowledge is timeless. Knowledge is human independent and replicatable. However, we live in new world where thanks to social media, 'facts' have become flexible and personal. HUG operates in that real world.

HUG has two approaches to contributor's Posts. If you have, like us, a scientific mind and are curious about how the ear works, how it can lead us to make the right - and wrong - decisions, and about the technical ins and outs of audio equipment, how it's designed and what choices the designer makes, then the factual area of HUG is for you. The objective methods of comparing audio equipment under controlled conditions has been thoroughly examined here on HUG and elsewhere and can be easily understood and tried with negligible technical knowledge.

Alternatively, if you just like chatting about audio and subjectivity rules for you, then the Subjective Soundings sub-forum is you. If upon examination we think that Posts are better suited to one sub-forum than than the other, they will be redirected during Moderation, which is applied throughout the site.

Questions and Posts about, for example, 'does amplifier A sounds better than amplifier B' or 'which speaker stands or cables are best' are suitable for the Subjective Soundings area.

The Moderators' decision is final in all matters regarding what appears here. That said, very few Posts are rejected. HUG Moderation individually spell and layout checks Posts for clarity but due to the workload, Posts in the Subjective Soundings area, from Oct. 2016 will not be. We regret that but we are unable to accept Posts that present what we consider to be free advertising for products that Harbeth does not make.

That's it! Enjoy!

{Updated Nov. 2016A}
See more
See less

The press, always the press... (consumption robots?)

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    Re: The press, always the press... (consumption robots?)

    Originally posted by Thanos View Post
    Gentlemen,
    A quality meal is always better than a large meal.
    Most of my fellow Americans do not see it this way.

    US (super-size me) A: where bigger is unanimously perceived as better.

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: The press, always the press... (consumption robots?)

      Oh come on, I've had some wonderful and large meals in the USA.

      What could be better - great food in huge quantities ?

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: The press, always the press... (consumption robots?)

        Originally posted by hifi_dave View Post
        Oh come on, I've had some wonderful and large meals in the USA.

        What could be better - great food in huge quantities ?
        At the risk of being doomy and gloomy, I think those days are drawing to a close. There simply isn't enough land, air, water, raw materials etc. to support all human beings on Earth in the style to which we've become accustomed. Especially as more people in the industrializing world start to expect and demand the same quality of life.

        I think we may all have to become used to doing with a bit less. In that world, "quality over quantity" is a good mantra. I think of Harbeth in that sense as a very "green" product, simply because it's built to last and to be used and enjoyed over a long period of time, so the material and energy inputs necessary to produce them are reasonably amortized over time, and there's at least an appropriate payback for the investment.

        So, Thanos, I'm with you. Less is more, whether we like it or not. If not in our lifetimes, then soon enough.

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: The press, always the press... (consumption robots?)

          Originally posted by EricW View Post
          At the risk of being doomy and gloomy, I think those days are drawing to a close. There simply isn't enough land, air, water, raw materials etc. to support all human beings on Earth in the style to which we've become accustomed. Especially as more people in the industrializing world start to expect and demand the same quality of life.

          I think we may all have to become used to doing with a bit less. In that world, "quality over quantity" is a good mantra. I think of Harbeth in that sense as a very "green" product, simply because it's built to last and to be used and enjoyed over a long period of time, so the material and energy inputs necessary to produce them are reasonably amortized over time, and there's at least an appropriate payback for the investment.

          So, Thanos, I'm with you. Less is more, whether we like it or not. If not in our lifetimes, then soon enough.
          Well fellows,
          I agree with EricW. As far as manufacturers and the press simply overdo it (as good old Tony Joe White -the swamp rock singer- sings), less is more. What I was saying had exactly this meaning. I felt embarassed seeing the press in Greece and worlwide hunting the easy profit more & more... And I also felt happy when I understood the way Alan Shaw goes ahead. Alan Sircom, whom I think to be very fair & balanced in his ideas and rich in market experience, remembers well how hi-fi commerce was before being pushed to market-mania due to profit hunters. Will they really survive after a while?
          As for the U.S. (half my family lives there), well the days coming, aren't so sunny, are they? Remember Alan Shaw's points about the "Chinese coming to Industry and growing consumption lifestyle"? How shall we balance with them ( 2 billion)? Will they stay permanently poor against Americans, British, Swiss, Europeans, etc.?
          You can't always have an every-day growing number of mags and effective ads in the world coming, so what's wrong with keeping your measure and quality standards living?
          As for you all, I can see and feel you're Harbethians in a way (aren't you), so you're not consumption robots. Am I wrong? Modest (but quality) equipment makes good music shine. Very expensive equipment won't make bad music better.
          The press had to have their hats off to Harbeth, although many times ignoring it. You can push "shiny" products with articles and ads, but , at the end of the day, you can not avoid real quality stuff.

          Cheers,
          Thanos

          Comment


          • #20
            Brand ownership?

            Originally posted by A.S. View Post
            The Japanese are - and I know this personally - fascinated by how things tick. As I've been cautioned - 'you Westerners do not ask probing questions about how consumer goods work ... you rarely take off the lid and look inside. We Japanese look inside first and from that can estimate the designer's objectives, even personality.
            At large. I'm working for more then 12 years for a Japanese company. Indeed, what Alan is saying is true, a superficial sight of Gaigins on Japanese would say, that they are obsessed with details, of the technical aspects. But they are obsessed on technical perfection! My previous job was for a Korean company, 5 years long and nothing to compare!

            Dilemma follows.

            Some 5 years back I said that I wouldn't buy American gear (why to support GWB)?
            Two years later I formulated the same thing on gear which is coming from China. The reason was not nationalism, but adherence to Europe. The dilemma is, that last weekend I heard the Quad 24 pre with Quad Classic II combo, making (reproducing) wonderful music. IAG (the owner of Quad) is a Chinese company, the gear is manufactured in UK, was designed by Tim de Paravicinni. What's the real cultural nature of the gear ???????????

            Comment


            • #21
              Brand ownership?

              IMO as the profit goes to a Chinese company it must be Chinese. Same as KEF, Cambridge Audio, Audiolab and many others now.

              Comment


              • #22
                Brand ownership?

                Originally posted by hifi_dave View Post
                IMO as the profit goes to a Chinese company it must be Chinese. Same as KEF, Cambridge Audio, Audiolab and many others now.
                Agreed.

                You could always buy Canadian gear, which is generally owned by Canadians unless you're talking about Classe, which I believe was bought out by B&W a few years back and hence is British by Dave's yardstick - unless B&W is also owned by the Chinese, of course!

                Bryston and Simaudio/Moon are good bets, as is Blue Circle if you want to get more esoteric.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Brand ownership?

                  Originally posted by hifi_dave View Post
                  IMO as the profit goes to a Chinese company it must be Chinese. Same as KEF, Cambridge Audio, Audiolab and many others now.
                  Exposure - Malaysia, Spendor - India, Luxman - China? (the sales department is located in Hong - Kong, very unusual and suspect for a Japanese company....) Creek & Epos producing in China, B&W producing in China except series 800, Musical Fidelity producing in China

                  If you have accurate information, please ad to listing
                  Last edited by Vlado; 22-11-2009, 03:16 PM. Reason: changed Spendor owners from Indonesia to India

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: The press, always the press... (consumption robots?)

                    Cambridge Audio, Audiolab, KEF, Celestion, Quad, Wharfedale, Acoustic Energy are now all manufactured in China, I believe.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: The press, always the press... (consumption robots?)

                      Increasingly, more and more audio equipment will be made in countries where labour costs are not crippingly high! This makes me appreciate Harbeth more and more! The speaker labels should read, "Still entirely created, manufactured and assembled in England, with pride!"

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Brand ownership?

                        Originally posted by Vlado View Post
                        Luxman - China? (the sales department is located in Hong - Kong, very unusual and suspect for a Japanese company....)
                        OK, The Luxman is still Japanese - confirmed by local distributor

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          QUAD II Classic - Chinese built and owned (and a bit about Luxman)

                          Originally posted by Vlado View Post
                          OK, The Luxman is still Japanese - confirmed by local distributor
                          There are several errors in this thread about ownership/manufacture of audio equipment.

                          All QUAD gear - electronics and speakers - are made in the huge IAG factory in China, the II Classic is not assembled in UK and never has been. In fact QUAD flew out the whole UK production staff to China at the time to help show the IAG staff about how to make the II Classic monoblocks. Also the QC24P and QC24 were designed by Tim deP, as was the II Classic Integrated amplifer, but the II Classic monoblocks are Peter Walker's original design with changes to socketry and very minor changes due to modern safety regulations and old-shaped components being unavailable.

                          Also Luxman (although maybe not at the time of the original post) is now owned by IAG too! This accounts for the re-invigorated product range. Their SACD players are very impressive build-quality wise. Their products are still "Made in Japan" though. IAG seem to see Luxman as their 'premium brand'.

                          I think it is rewarding to own equipment that is made by crafts-people with care and a genuine interest in the stuff they make. It gives a nice warm feeling that we are all working together towards a common goal, which I find comforting.

                          The earlier comments about the Japanese looking inside the case/cabinet first and assessing the designer's personality through looking for details...I have always done that kind of thing!

                          I often find myself inspecting the workmanship on all sorts of things and considering whether the people who produced these things realise that some people (like me) really do look closely at details and make judgements based on these details - financial or otherwise.

                          If I struggle to find fault in the finish of a hi-fi component I respect the manufacturer and designer and it makes me feel that "I am in safe hands".

                          From reading the HUG for some time (although not yet being an owner) it seems I do not need to worry at all about Harbeth, Alan or his staff's diligence on this issue. We are most definately all in safe hands!

                          Comment

                          Working...
                          X