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Bi-Amping the Shl 5

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  • Bi-Amping the Shl 5

    Hi Harbeth Lovers !

    I got 2 Electrocompaniet DMB Amps and i wold now is it possible to work in Bi-Amp wit the Shl 5 , 1 Amp. for the Woofer - 1 Amp. for the Tweet&Medium or is it better 1 Amp. at speaker ?

    Please give me some advice before i made something wrong .

    Thank you in advance

    Best regrades Marko (France)

  • #2
    Bridged?

    If it's possible to bridge them and use as mono-blocks, that would be my recommendation.

    Comment


    • #3
      Connections?

      Hi Dave ,

      Thank you for your answer , so I got one Amp connect to the Woofers and the other for the Mid and Twet. , sorry but what you mean with Bridged , my English is not perfect .

      M.

      {Moderator's comment: I suggest that unless you are very technically competent, there is a serious risk that in a bi-amping arrangement either there will be a level mismatch between bass and tweeter drive voltage and/or the prospect of destroying drive units or damaging the amp, not covered by our Warranty.}

      Comment


      • #4
        Amp setup

        Thank You for the comment but what ist in this case the solution to use my 2 electrocompaniet dbl. mono amps. with the Shl5 ?

        Thank you for answer

        Marko

        Comment


        • #5
          Mono-blocks

          Hi,

          what is being suggested is you use one power amp to amplify one channel from your pre-amp and then to drive a complete speaker speaker. And use the other amp to amplify the other channel and drive the other speaker.

          In other words, you use your amps as mono-blocks, each driving one speaker.

          Comment


          • #6
            Standard wiring (not bi-amping)

            Originally posted by hifi7373 View Post
            Hi Dave ,

            Thank you for your answer , so I got one Amp connect to the Woofers and the other for the Mid and Twet. , sorry but what you mean with Bridged , my English is not perfect .

            M.

            {Moderator's comment: I suggest that unless you are very technically competent, there is a serious risk that in a bi-amping arrangement either there will be a level mismatch between bass and tweeter drive voltage and/or the prospect of destroying drive units or damaging the amp, not covered by our Warranty.}
            When a suitable amp is bridged, the output is usually doubled and it becomes a mono block. So you would use one per channel to drive the speakers normally via their internal crossover.

            To my mind, this gives better results than using two amps driving the bass and HF sections of the speakers separately and is far easier to implement. You need to contact Electrocompaniet to make sure the amps can be used this way.

            Comment


            • #7
              Bridging v. bi-amping

              Let me explain a bit. Bridging means that you connect the two channels of a stereo amplifier into a roughly twice as powerful mono amplifier. Sometimes this is just a switch on the back of the amplifier, sometimes you need an engineer, sometimes it is not possible. So if you do this, one bridged amplifier serves the left chanel, the other the right channel. Bridging is a quite common technique to double the power, and more power is almost always a good thing. You will need to investigate if this is possible with your amplifiers, however.

              Bi amping is different, because one stereo amplifier serves the woofers, and the other the mid and tweeter units. The problem is that as far as I can see this inevitably means that you are bypassing the crossover network in the speaker, and have to add something of your own. However, that is precisely where much of the magic of the design resides.

              Comment


              • #8
                Minimum impedance when bridged

                Originally posted by willem View Post
                Let me explain a bit. Bridging means that you connect the two channels of a stereo amplifier into a roughly twice as powerful mono amplifier. Sometimes this is just a switch on the back of the amplifier, sometimes you need an engineer, sometimes it is not possible. So if you do this, one bridged amplifier serves the left chanel, the other the right channel. Bridging is a quite common technique to double the power, and more power is almost always a good thing. You will need to investigate if this is possible with your amplifiers, however.

                Bi amping is different, because one stereo amplifier serves the woofers, and the other the mid and tweeter units. The problem is that as far as I can see this inevitably means that you are bypassing the crossover network in the speaker, and have to add something of your own. However, that is precisely where much of the magic of the design resides.
                I notice many stereo amps capable of bridging then often give a warning about the minimum Ohm load from the speaker, eg bridged minimum impedance 8 Ohms (despite the stereo mode being ok for say a 4 Ohm speaker) the extra power available surely a good thing but I wonder why this means that the minimum impedance is often raised??
                Getting to know my C7ES3

                Comment


                • #9
                  Not bypassing crossovers

                  Originally posted by willem View Post
                  Bi amping is different, because one stereo amplifier serves the woofers, and the other the mid and tweeter units. The problem is that as far as I can see this inevitably means that you are bypassing the crossover network in the speaker, and have to add something of your own. However, that is precisely where much of the magic of the design resides.
                  Sorry, that's not quite right.

                  Sure, conventional Bi-Amping gives one amp channel to bass input and the other to the tweeter input, but the internal passive crossovers are left in circuit, so as long as the two amps have the same gain, levels won't be affected.

                  Going ACTIVE is a different matter entirely, where the crossover function is done by a powered active circuit BEFORE each amplifier, the output of each amp then looking straight at each drive unit with nothing other than a length of cable in between, one amp for each driver, meaning six for the SHL5+ in total. There are supposed advantages to doing it this way as maximum amplifier control is assured and each amplifier is only given a narrow bandwidth to amplify, but I still have some doubts, as drive-unit matching becomes even more important and just taking any random pair of drivers isn't an option if truly seamless operation is to be achieved - I could say loads about this, but dare not.

                  Rest assured though, that speaker design is NOT just fifteen minutes tapping away on a computer to get the basic crossover sorted out using software, as some others would have you believe.

                  Bottom line for the OP and it's been said here countless times by AS. ALL of his speakers over the years (and Dudley's original designs too) were designed to present as benign a load as possible to a driving amplifier so largely negating the need for fancy amps unless the owner specifically wants one for reasons other than power output. Current speakers in the range have even less 'in the way' and the whole scenario about different amplifiers for your Harbeths should mean that only ONE stereo amplifier should be necessary.

                  Adding that second pair of terminals to this new model is only going to add to confusion now in my opinion and with respect, I'm surprised that the two pairs are still there on this model! My advice after all this preamble is to use ONE good amplifier and if you like the Electro amps you have, sell one and buy some music with the proceeds! :)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Not bypassing crossovers

                    Originally posted by willem View Post

                    Bi amping is different, because one stereo amplifier serves the woofers, and the other the mid and tweeter units. The problem is that as far as I can see this inevitably means that you are bypassing the crossover network in the speaker ...
                    No, that's not quite right, is it, assuming we're talking about the SHL5? Even if the connecting straps are removed from the rear terminals, and separate amplifiers are used to power the LF and HF sections, the internal crossover is still working in the sense that each driver will receive a signal that is filtered by the internal crossover network (I think). It's just that the high-pass and low-pass functions are split. This is so-called "passive bi-amping" as distinguished from true "active bi-amping", in which an active crossover is used before the speaker. But my understanding is that the speaker in the latter case must be purpose-built for that application and not have an internal passive crossover.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Thank you I will contact electrocompaniet !

                      Marko

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        "Vertical biamping"

                        There is also Vertical Biamping. Where you use two identical stereo amps, one stereo amp per speaker (And use one channel for the bass and one channel for the treble).

                        This configuration has advantages.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Double mono for me

                          Hi again so I try finally all of the solutions : I bridged mi 2 aw100dmb with a result of 325w at Amp., I use one Amp. for one SHL5, I use the passive Bi-Amping and one Amp. as classic connect, the winner is =

                          For my the best results was with the passive Bi-Amp. If the Shl5 have a Bi-wire Terminal means the Shl5 is made for this it depend just what kinde of Amp. you use , so I am very happy withe my Upgraded dbl mono amps.

                          By
                          Marko

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