Announcement

Collapse

HUG - here for all audio enthusiasts

Since its inception ten years ago, the Harbeth User Group's ambition has been to create a lasting knowledge archive. Knowledge is based on facts and observations. Knowledge is timeless. Knowledge is human independent and replicatable. However, we live in new world where thanks to social media, 'facts' have become flexible and personal. HUG operates in that real world.

HUG has two approaches to contributor's Posts. If you have, like us, a scientific mind and are curious about how the ear works, how it can lead us to make the right - and wrong - decisions, and about the technical ins and outs of audio equipment, how it's designed and what choices the designer makes, then the factual area of HUG is for you. The objective methods of comparing audio equipment under controlled conditions has been thoroughly examined here on HUG and elsewhere and can be easily understood and tried with negligible technical knowledge.

Alternatively, if you just like chatting about audio and subjectivity rules for you, then the Subjective Soundings sub-forum is you. If upon examination we think that Posts are better suited to one sub-forum than than the other, they will be redirected during Moderation, which is applied throughout the site.

Questions and Posts about, for example, 'does amplifier A sounds better than amplifier B' or 'which speaker stands or cables are best' are suitable for the Subjective Soundings area.

The Moderators' decision is final in all matters regarding what appears here. That said, very few Posts are rejected. HUG Moderation individually spell and layout checks Posts for clarity but due to the workload, Posts in the Subjective Soundings area, from Oct. 2016 will not be. We regret that but we are unable to accept Posts that present what we consider to be free advertising for products that Harbeth does not make.

That's it! Enjoy!

{Updated Nov. 2016A}
See more
See less

Photos of your beloved Harbeth Speakers & Setup

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Re: Mono or stereo sub bass.

    Hi Paul, thanks for the info. May I know why you are using two subs? Are you believe in stereo sub bass?
    "Bath with Music"

    Comment


    • Re: Mono or stereo sub bass.

      Originally posted by keithwwk View Post
      Hi Paul, thanks for the info. May I know why you are using two subs? Are you believe in stereo sub bass?
      Yes I do believe in stereo subs.

      I used to record music for my job so I was in a good position to experiment with different microphone arrangements as well as different speaker arrangements for playback.
      For Pop music, mono (sub 80Hz) bass will do as most of the time as the bass component of the music, bass guitar or bass fiddle and bass drum are placed centre stage and apart from keyboard supplied bass, which may be stereo, are always in-phase so a single sub works very well. With classical music its a bit more complex.

      I listen to lots of orchestral and Organ music and have had the opportunity to record the same. I found through experimentation with mic techniques and through watching what other sound balancers were doing and listening to the results, that at very low frequencies bass is certainly directional, but not directly in the way that most people think.

      To record the very low frequencies of a Cathedral organ's 32' long pipes (16.35 -32.7 Hz) I found that co-incident microphone techniques just didn't work. The co-incident microphone is a single point microphone which has two parts, one to face left and one to face right in very close proximity. I found that having two more widely separated microphones, each capable of responding to these low frequencies, gave a much better result in the bass.

      When I took these recordings home, I discovered that there was a considerable amount of out-of-phase information in the low frequency part of the recording. When this is played back on a single sub the out of phase component disappears. NO BASS at certain pitches or notes. Now a single sub adds the Left and Right components of the bass together. When they're in phase, they add up. When they're out of phase, they tend to cancel out, producing a very lumpy bass response exaggerated by both the spatial component of the mic technique and the room response.

      When such a recording is played on two speakers with good LF response (M40.1 comes to mind) or when it's played on widely spaced stereo subs..heaven! With two subs placed in two different places in the room, the room modification to the LF response can be mitigated and the out of phase component in the deep bass can be reproduced as there are only acoustic cancellation effects.

      If you look at the photograph you'll see that additionally, the two subs are ASYMETRICALLY placed in the room to avoid stirring up identical resonances, the opposite of the M30s which for stereo image need to be symetrically placed. A large number of classical recordings are made with spaced omnidirectional microphones, and these recordings have very good bass with out of phase components, and yes, stereo subs are great on rock'n'roll too.
      Paul

      "If all else fails, read the instructions"

      Comment


      • Re: Photos of your beloved Harbeth Speakers & Setup

        Hi ryder,

        Nice shot of your setup
        Btw, do you use the Harbeth for HT too?
        Any thought of changing your amp to PLINIUS SA-103?

        Comment


        • Re: Photos of your beloved Harbeth Speakers & Setup

          Hi Jmohd,
          Although the speakers will eventually be used in HT, I have not watched a single movie since getting the Harbeth 3 weeks ago. I have only been listening to music when I have the opportunity to do so.

          It has not crossed my mind of getting the new Plinius SA-103 as I would think the house sound of Plinius amps (SA-100, 102 and 103) would be more or less similar. Maybe slight refinement and finesse when going up the recent interations but I wouldn't expect major sound improvements. If I ever wanted a different kind of sound I would definitely look at the LFD Zero MkIII judging from all the rave reviews and comments are going. The Plinius has a warm syrupy sound and may likely sound quite different from the transparent, lean and detailed sound of the LFD from what I read.

          Comment


          • Re: Mono or stereo sub bass.

            Originally posted by Paul G Smith View Post
            ...When I took these recordings home, I discovered that there was a considerable amount of out-of-phase information in the low frequency part of the recording. When this is played back on a single sub the out of phase component disappears. NO BASS at certain pitches or notes.

            Now a single sub adds the Left and Right components of the bass together. When they're in phase, they add up. When they're out of phase, they tend to cancel out, producing a very lumpy bass response exaggerated by both the spatial component of the mic technique and the room response.

            When such a recording is played on two speakers with good LF response (M40.1 comes to mind) or when it's played on widely spaced stereo subs..heaven!

            ..
            Hi Paul,
            Many thanks to sharing me on this. The points your mentioned had proven that I was not crazy when I having two SVS subs in stereo configuration before owning SHL5. I do listen lot of classical musics. I had expereinced the same result as you mentioned when using a single sub. The bass just did not sound right to me. I do believe stereo sub can reproduce acoustically sum of in/out phase bass give the spacial bass property as what I heard in live acoustic performance. A single sub will nvr do. A pair of fuller range speaker with stereo bass woofer (L & R)play more acoustically correct or better bass than a pair of speaker + a single sub. But I had failed to setup my stereo subs and sold them to get a SHL5 instead.
            "Bath with Music"

            Comment


            • Re: Photos of your beloved Harbeth Speakers & Setup

              Originally posted by P.C. View Post

              here are a few shots of my system with my Monitor 30s
              Hello P.C.

              very, very tasteful setup!

              VA

              Comment


              • Re: Photos of your beloved Harbeth Speakers & Setup

                Thanks, here's a close up of my Klyne Audio Arts line stage as its quite a rare beast along with the Bryston cd player

                Comment


                • Re: Photos of your beloved Harbeth Speakers & Setup



                  Here is a current picture of my sound room. The dimensions are L20' W12' H7.5'. The speaker and listening positions were calculated using CARA software

                  Comment


                  • Re: Photos of your beloved Harbeth Speakers & Setup

                    Don thanks for posting pic. System looks absolutely fantastic, Love the layout of the system with the reel to reel and those Blue circle amps. Also like the nearfield seating position. I'd love to try that but putting either the speakers or my listening chair in the middle of our living room would be a big no no from the wife. By the way are those 40s or 40.1s (or Super HL5s)?

                    Comment


                    • Re: Photos of your beloved Harbeth Speakers & Setup

                      Yes, a dedicated sound room was one of the priorities when we bought our home years ago. The room dimensions are based on the Cardas golden cuboid and the wiring is dedicated 20 amp circuits with hospital grade recepticles.

                      The speakers in the picture are the Monitor 40.1's. They deserve every bit of praise they've received. They seem to produce music effortlessly.

                      The custom bookshelves to the left contain LP's open reel tapes, CD's and a few cassettes. No 78's or wax cylinders though... I'm far to young for that

                      Don

                      Comment


                      • Re: Photos of your beloved Harbeth Speakers & Setup

                        Hi Don,
                        Nice photo.
                        Is your room width is 12fts? My room is 12fts wide too. You room looks much bigger than mine. The M40.1 look small in you room.
                        "Bath with Music"

                        Comment


                        • Re: Photos of your beloved Harbeth Speakers & Setup

                          Hi Sunshine,

                          I hope you don't mine me posting your upgraded set-up.
                          You are now into vinyl..

                          Comment


                          • Re: Photos of your beloved Harbeth Speakers & Setup

                            eh...sunshine bro nvr tell me...

                            Share me how you feel your vinly sound..
                            "Bath with Music"

                            Comment


                            • Re: Photos of your beloved Harbeth Speakers & Setup

                              Hi Jmohd,

                              No worries
                              Yeah just got myself into vinyl only recently.

                              Cheers,
                              Sunshine

                              Comment


                              • Re: Photos of your beloved Harbeth Speakers & Setup

                                Should have gotten myself into vinyl long ago
                                Music is so natural and real with vinyl.
                                Still with my 7, dying for a 5....sigh

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X