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"This Harbeth User Group (HUG) is the Manufacturer's own managed forum dedicated to natural sound, realisable by controlling the confounding variables between tthe microphone and the listeners' ears.

For example, the design of and interaction between the hifi amplifier and its speaker load can and potentially will alter the sound balance of what you hear. To reproduce the sounds captured by the recording microphones, as Harbeth speakers are designed to do, you would naturally select system components (sources, electronics, cables and so on) that do not color the sound before it reaches the speakers.

Identifying components for their system neutrality should, logically, start with the interpretation and analysis of their technical, objective performance, as any and every deviation from a measurably flat frequency response at any point along the serial chain from microphone to ear is very likely to cause the total system to have an audible sonic personality. That includes the contribution of the listening room itself.

HUG specialises in making complex technical matters simple to understand, aiding the identification of audio components likely to maintain a faithful relationship between the recorded sound and the sound you hear. With our heritage of natural sound, HUG cannot be really be expected to guide in the selection, approval, endorsement or even discussion of equipment that is intend to introduce a significantly personalised sound to the audio signal chain. For that you should do your own research and above all, make the effort to visit an Authorised Dealer and listen to your music at your loudness on your loudspeakers through the various electronics offered there. There is no on-line substitute for that time investment in a dealer's showroom.

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Alternatively, if faithfully reproducing the sound intended by the composer, score, conductor and musicians over your speakers is your audio dream, then understanding something of the issues likely to fulfill that objective is what this forum has been helping with since 2006. Welcome!"


Jan. 2018
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Harbeth and Naim 122x/150x

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  • Harbeth and Naim 122x/150x

    Hello I recently had a demo of the 7es3 and M30, the demo involved a Supernait and CD5XS. I own a 122x/150x with flat cap.

    I really liked the openness of the 7's but found them a little lacking in body - the M30's were fuller but I felt they may be too much in my 14x10x 8 ft high room.

    The speakers would be in a bay in my room only four or five feet apart with about a foot of space behind and to the side.

    Does anyone have any experience of the above set up?

    Do any Harbeth dealers do home dems as I feel this is almost vital?

    Many thanks

  • #2
    I regularly use Naim with Harbeth speakers and from the Nait 5i upwards it works really well.

    The main part of my demo room is only around 14ft x 12ft and the speakers are approx 12 inches from the rear wall and they sound great, even the M40.1. I understand that the Harbeth speakers have been designed in a very small room and this is why they work so well in limited spaces.

    The M30 has a fuller sound than the 7ES-3 with more body through the mid and a more sophisticated top end. They should be ideal.

    Comment


    • #3
      Thanks Dave!

      I really would like to try either or both the models at home?

      Sadly the dealer I went to was nearly 80 miles away!

      Any suggestions?

      I also wondered if the m30 may be a little too analytical?

      Any feeback is most welcome!

      Comment


      • #4
        I believe both M30 and C7ES3s will sound good on the 122x/150x, and as you have found out it is a question of which speaker will match your listening preferences better. I am not sure what do you mean when you mentioned the M30s may be too much for your 10'x14'x8' room. The M30s are physically smaller than the C7ES3s so they won't dominate the room as much compared to the C7ES3s, and I reckon your room can fit the C7ES3s without any problems. There is a 40.1 owner here who has the speakers in a width of 9 feet.

        I wouldn't use the word "analytical" on any Harbeth speakers, especially on the M30s. Organic is a more appropriate term to describe the sonic qualities of Harbeth speakers.

        Your demo which involved the Naim Supernait may be contributing to the perceived lack of body in the C7ES3s. I have not listened to the Supernait but read on the Naim forum that it has a different voicing compared to the rest in the Nait XS, 122x/150x and 202/200. The Supernait was described to have a leaner, upfront and more dynamic presentation with a more forceful bass in comparison to the other Naim amps. You would have better luck asking this question on the Naim forum as over here the belief is there is virtually no difference between amps as they all sound the same.

        Good luck in picking the right Harbeth for your room. The Harbeth do make wonderful music on the Naims.

        Comment


        • #5
          I must be the odd one here who is using none of the amplifiers ever mentioned here. (Psst...we are going to have our own amp so maybe names of other brands will soon be forbidden in this forum.)

          BTW, I am all for Harbeth's own cable. I still need to replace my damaged speaker cable and I am not going to sell my kidney to get one. Does anyone know a better specs cable then Belden?

          ST

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          • #6
            STHL,
            Depends on your budget and what is available to you but I always get excellent results with the cheaper Chord Cables (Odyssey-2), the new DNM flat, single core cable and various LFD cables.

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            • #7
              Heart over Head?

              Actually, I was almost made up mind to buy DNM but now Sanders Sound System cables looks promising. I am guy who doesn't believe in cables so long they are well designed but now after having a better speakers I am finding all sort of excuses to replace my current cable. At least now, I am looking at the specs and not going to spend anything more than twice the price of Belden's cable only if the specs are better. Guess, I am not really cured of the audio nervosa. A case of heart over head.

              ST

              Comment


              • #8
                Splashing out on cables .... listen first!

                Originally posted by STHLS5 View Post
                ...At least now, I am looking at the specs and not going to spend ... only if the specs are better. Guess, I am not really cured of the audio nervosa. A case of heart over head.
                So, if you represent (as you surely do) a significant strata of the hi-fi buying public, if I were the marketing dept. of a cable company, I'd make those specs damn good reading. Whether I or you actually had the ability to interpret the data in a meaningful way that related to music is a completely different matter and one I'd rather avoid you thinking about.

                My recommendation: don't buy on specifications. Don't buy on cosmetics. If the urge to spend money is so intense, go listen. If you can't go listen, put the money you would have spent in a charity box and give yourself and the recipient a real boost. There is no better feeling than being contented yourself and able to make someone else less fortunate than yourself happy: a win-win situation all round. And don't expect any gratitude or thanks - those in real trouble do not have the language to express their appreciation.

                Or you could, of course, go ahead and pick a fancy cable, unheard, and based on the appearance and specifications. Drag it home. Hook it up. Congratulate yourself on your marvellous purchase. Next week, swap back to the original cable ... and wonder why you spent the money. Or maybe I'm just too cynical!

                If you are auditioning, there are those who say that the differences between cables are intimately related to the interaction of amplifier, cable and speaker. Change any one of the three, and the sound changes. So if you are taking the trouble to seriously listen, be sure to listen with your amp, the new cable and your speakers and no other combination of amp and speakers. Otherwise your listening test will be/could be/may be worthless.
                Alan A. Shaw
                Designer, owner
                Harbeth Audio UK

                Comment


                • #9
                  There are some Harbeth users very happy with qed 79. You may consider. I am using MIT terminator 2 single wire for both 5 and 7 which I bought (used) more than 10yrs ago.
                  "Bath with Music"

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Hey Dave - you don't perchance live near Stanstead do you?

                    I think we may have met.....

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      We did, on Tuesday but I thought it best to keep a low profile whilst others post to let you know just how good the Harbeth's are.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by A.S. View Post
                        So, if you represent (as you surely do) a significant strata of the hi-fi buying public, if I were the marketing dept. of a cable company, I'd make those specs damn good reading. Whether I or you actually had the ability to interpret the data in a meaningful way that related to music is a completely different matter and one I'd rather avoid you thinking about.

                        My recommendation: don't buy on specifications. Don't buy on cosmetics. If the urge to spend money is so intense, go listen. If you can't go listen, put the money you would have spent in a charity box and give yourself and the recipient a real boost. There is no better feeling than being contented yourself and able to make someone else less fortunate than yourself happy: a win-win situation all round. And don't expect any gratitude or thanks - those in real trouble do not have the language to express their appreciation.

                        Or you could, of course, go ahead and pick a fancy cable, unheard, and based on the appearance and specifications. Drag it home. Hook it up. Congratulate yourself on your marvellous purchase. Next week, swap back to the original cable ... and wonder why you spent the money. Or maybe I'm just too cynical!

                        If you are auditioning, there are those who say that the differences between cables are intimately related to the interaction of amplifier, cable and speaker. Change any one of the three, and the sound changes. So if you are taking the trouble to seriously listen, be sure to listen with your amp, the new cable and your speakers and no other combination of amp and speakers. Otherwise your listening test will be/could be/may be worthless.
                        And, some testimony to the above:

                        We made trials with 4 different cable pairs on the same system (a very-very expensive one). Unfortunately the owner isn't yet convinced to replace his ...so&so... "Reference" speakers with the 40.1's I have long ago proposed. Anyway, two cable pairs are priced over 5.000euros/10ft pair, another at 2.500euros/10ft pair, and the "humble" one (silver plated copper, thick enough, silicone covered) that I personally assembled, buying two lengths, each of 10ft, from a local store and 8 pieces of bananas-terminators, all for about 60euros (our total expense.)

                        We listened to each pair for two days, then swapped all four within a day, and so on... Today, we are ridiculously laughing, when understanding that differences were obvious only in our ...imagination! OK, there were some ones, but -comparing prices- one felt he was badly cheated...

                        So let me please get Alan's advice as a wise real world rule! Undeniably so...
                        Best Regards,
                        Thanos

                        P.S. If you wish me to publish brands (components, speakers and cables), I can do so, although I consider it more wise to send them through private messages upon demand, for obvious reasons. I'm not a reviewer, but I'm not ..deaf as well!
                        Last edited by A.S.; 04-06-2010, 11:52 AM. Reason: add

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                        • #13
                          moin,

                          how have you decided, Fisbey?

                          my question is the same about the combination Harbeth M 30 and naim 122x/150x.
                          Is the 150x (50W) strong enough for the M 30? I can change now to a creek Destiny with 100Watts. Is that better?

                          Harbeth says in the manual: minimum 50W, better 120 to 150 W.

                          What do you mean, the owners of M 30? change or not change?

                          I need help and I need it soon, thank you.


                          moin
                          werner

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            You'll have no trouble with either amp but they do sound different. I would strongly recommend you hear them both before deciding.

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