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Since its inception ten years ago, the Harbeth User Group's ambition has been to create a lasting knowledge archive. Knowledge is based on facts and observations. Knowledge is timeless. Knowledge is human independent and replicatable. However, we live in new world where thanks to social media, 'facts' have become flexible and personal. HUG operates in that real world.

HUG has two approaches to contributor's Posts. If you have, like us, a scientific mind and are curious about how the ear works, how it can lead us to make the right - and wrong - decisions, and about the technical ins and outs of audio equipment, how it's designed and what choices the designer makes, then the factual area of HUG is for you. The objective methods of comparing audio equipment under controlled conditions has been thoroughly examined here on HUG and elsewhere and can be easily understood and tried with negligible technical knowledge.

Alternatively, if you just like chatting about audio and subjectivity rules for you, then the Subjective Soundings sub-forum is you. If upon examination we think that Posts are better suited to one sub-forum than than the other, they will be redirected during Moderation, which is applied throughout the site.

Questions and Posts about, for example, 'does amplifier A sounds better than amplifier B' or 'which speaker stands or cables are best' are suitable for the Subjective Soundings area.

The Moderators' decision is final in all matters regarding what appears here. That said, very few Posts are rejected. HUG Moderation individually spell and layout checks Posts for clarity but due to the workload, Posts in the Subjective Soundings area, from Oct. 2016 will not be. We regret that but we are unable to accept Posts that present what we consider to be free advertising for products that Harbeth does not make.

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{Updated Nov. 2016A}
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Harbeth Monitor 30 domestic specific

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  • Adjusting the whole syste,

    Hi, Zindra.
    Have you made attempts to change some things and try optimize your setup to find another soundbalance? You're not only listening to the speakers but to your whole setup ! Just replacing the speakers may not be enough to your liking

    If I replace my C7 by my P3 I have to use some other adjustments in setup to get the better of the P3, so...

    Comment


    • Perfect subwoofer match

      I am using a Velodyne DD-10 subwoofer to augment my M30's and it is really a perfect match. It gives me just the extra bass, nothing more. I really cannot pinpoint the sub at all and the M30's have received loads of scale, punchy bassdrums, deep lows (down to 15 Hz) and a much better soundscape.

      Don't skimp on the quality of the sub and have someone knowledgeable calibrate it to the system and room. The DD-10 is set at 50 Hz crossover, 24 dB/octave and only some minor eq at I think 35 or so Hz and a minor boost at 15 Hz.

      Comment


      • Super-hearing

        Originally posted by Sebastien View Post
        Hi Zindra,

        {Moderator's comment: Yes as we age our HF range definitely contracts but we can still enjoy music perfectly. Alan commented recently that he doesn't believe he can hear much above about 12-14kHz (he's 54). Much better than the average person for his age. How old are you?}
        I am 43, I am certainly losing sight, but my ears still seem fine! I know I can hear it because I did the same test with the previous full range speakers.

        Comment


        • Bigger box = bigger scale?

          What optimization would you suggest...? Except for positioning, which I've already fiddled around, even lowering the speakers to reinforce bass, I don't want to start replacing components and such. The system is fine. I think I am going to try to audition the SHL5 when I have the chance, maybe try to work out a trade in deal from the dealer if I finally prefer them to the M30.

          Regarding the addition of a sub, I appreciate the suggestion but It's an approach I don't consider, I downsized the boxes to keep it simple, I'd rather try a bigger box like the SLH5 than add a sub. My goal is not only better bass, but better scale and sense of venue. Best.

          Comment


          • M30 v. SHL5

            Hello Zindra, did you see the pic I posted on the M30 on the cradle stand you where interested in?

            I also have the M30s and listen predominately to classical music with a strong bias on the Piano. I've found that I've gotten the best authority. bass impact and sense of scale that you've mention by positioning my M30s in the middle of the room ( I pull them into this position for critical listening) The theory is explained here:
            http://www.immediasound.com/Speaker%20set-up%202009.pdf it might be worth a try?.

            As to the SHL5's, Like you I never got the chance to compare them at my dealer (who much preferred the M30s) but did listened to the C7s. I've been told by a number of dealers that even though the SH5s have more bass I could quite possible (after having living with the M30s for some 5 years now) find myself missing the unique qualities that the M30's have if I changed them (which I have no plan in doing!).

            But obviously if you have the opportunity to listen to both that would be the ideal option.

            Comment


            • Importance of a dedicated room (acoustic)

              [QUOTE=P.C.;16057]Hello Zindra, did you see the pic I posted on the M30 on the cradle stand you where interested in?

              Yes, I did see the pic, thank you. I contacted Pear Audio but they don't make it anymore. I posted a reply before to this before but I probably did something wrong and it doesn't show. Opposite of you, the dealer loved SHL5 but didn't have it in store, so I compared C7 and M30 and got the M30 which really has it's magic going on, and some shortcomings in my room.

              Maybe this is the key: "in my room". I may love the SHL5 at the dealer's dedicated and treated room and then like them less than the M30 in my place. It's a never ending search and it's fun, only pitty is the funds (in my case) are so limited!

              Comment


              • Port symmetry

                Right Ported M-30???

                On the Products Page of the Official Harbeth website, the M-30 Studio shown grouped together with the others has it's port on the right side. Of course, if you click on it, the one shown there is ported on the left the same as the Domestic and any other M-30 I've ever seen. I've always wondered why the port arrangement was not symmetrical. I asked my dealer and he said "because it doesn't have to be, and its easier to make all the baffles the same". OK, fine, I mean there isn't anything I can point to that is problematic about it. If your speakers are set up equidistant from each other (as they should be); it does put the discharged air (and I'm guessing some low frequency sound) from the right speaker closer to one ear than the other port, but I don't hear it as a coloration. Now, I see this right ported M-30, and it makes me wonder...

                Comment


                • "In my room"

                  [QUOTE=zindra;16060]
                  Originally posted by P.C. View Post
                  Hello Zindra, did you see the pic I posted on the M30 on the cradle stand you where interested in?

                  Yes, I did see the pic, thank you. I contacted Pear Audio but they don't make it anymore. I posted a reply before to this before but I probably did something wrong and it doesn't show. Opposite of you, the dealer loved SHL5 but didn't have it in store, so I compared C7 and M30 and got the M30 which really has it's magic going on, and some shortcomings in my room.

                  Maybe this is the key: "in my room". I may love the SHL5 at the dealer's dedicated and treated room and then like them less than the M30 in my place. It's a never ending search and it's fun, only pitty is the funds (in my case) are so limited!
                  One speaker will always be better than another in some way. I also chose the M30 over the Compact 7 (did not hear SHL5), even though the Compact 7 sounded more impressive at first listen. There is something special about the M30, the clarity, the total lack of distortion, and the solidity that I had never heard in any speaker before. It's not for everybody, and it makes demands on the listener (pay attention!), but I'm glad I chose it for my needs, which is too look into the music, almost as if it's being made before my eyes and ears.

                  Comment


                  • Port positioning

                    [QUOTE=Diminish;16098]Right Ported M-30???

                    On the Products Page of the Official Harbeth website, the M-30 Studio shown grouped together with the others has it's port on the right side. Of course, if you click on it, the one shown there is ported on the left the same as the Domestic and any other M-30 I've ever seen. .....QUOTE]

                    Hi Diminish,

                    I asked a similar question about three years ago . Andy of Harbeth(UK) said, and I quote "

                    All Super HL5's have the port on the right side and always have done. The pair matching on all our speaker is with the veneer and also the drive units. The picture on the Harbeth website has been reversed to make the speaker face towards the writing." ....(End of Quote).

                    I believe the port's role is to extend the low bass which is coincidently omni directional. So I believe that shouldnt make a difference to us whether it is for SHL5 or M30. IMO.

                    ST

                    {Moderator's comment: also bear in mind that during photography/DTP images can easily be flipped left-right. The fact is, that at low frequencies where the wavlength is many mtrs. the position of the port on the front, side, top, back will make no practical difference in output. At LF is is almost or actually impossible to measure the port's output in isolation to the woofer: the two blened seamlessly.}

                    Comment


                    • David Bowie and M30 at the BBC

                      Originally posted by Paul G Smith View Post
                      Certainly not! BBC Manchester studio5 has M30s mounted horizontally with the HF units innermost, on metal stands to bring them clear of the top of the mixing desk. Many famous bands have been broadcast from there.
                      Here's a pic of David Bowie in the studio when he played on the Mark Radcliffe show. The M30 in foreground is the left side of the main monitor pair in this studio's control room (direct to transmitter). The picture was taken by one of my colleagues.

                      The live band performs in the same studio space as the DJ, so soundchecks are sometimes made during the programme! The BBC in Manchester has recently closed this building to move to their new northern headquarters in Media City, Salford.

                      RIP Studio 5.
                      Attached Files
                      Paul

                      "If all else fails, read the instructions"

                      Comment


                      • M30 used on its side?

                        Hi Paul
                        In your picture I see The Monitor 30 placed horizontally. I read about people, who placed the Harbeths with the tweeters on down side (audiogon) or even with the Harbeth logos on interior corners (that was at the one exhibition).

                        So, use somebody, one of this speakers positions or is that Monitor 30 designed to be placed also in horizontal position?

                        Cheers

                        Comment


                        • Speakers on their side in studio

                          Originally posted by micron View Post
                          Hi Paul
                          In your picture I see The Monitor 30 placed horizontally. I read about people, who placed the Harbeths with the tweeters on down side (audiogon) or even with the Harbeth logos on interior corners (that was at the one exhibition).

                          So, use somebody, one of this speakers positions or is that Monitor 30 designed to be placed also in horizontal position?

                          Cheers
                          This studio is quite often packed with musicians and it is quite often difficult to see who is replying to the presenter's questions, especially as the performers are hidden behind the wall to the right of the window. The picture was taken from the extreme left of the control room.
                          The reason the M30s are placed horizontally is simply to be able to have as clear as possible a view of the extremities of the studio!
                          The fact that they sound just as good on their sides is very important to the sound mixer!
                          It's as well to remember that the mixing position in a studio is always on the axis of the loudspeakers, and I can vouch for the stereo image in studio 5 to be quite good!
                          Paul

                          "If all else fails, read the instructions"

                          Comment


                          • Subwoofer for M30... again

                            I've read the posts about matching a subwoofer with the M30. The only recommendations I've found are the Quad Gradient sw-63, and the Velodyne DD10 (too expensive for me).

                            Does anyone know of a subwoofer that can do a good job without a steep price tag? I've found some from B&W, Polk audio, etc, but I have never used a subwoofer before and I am not sure where to start and what to to look for. Are all subwoofers powered or are there passive also? My amp is 2 channel stereo, where do I connect the subwoofer, to the speakers posts on the amp?

                            Thank you.

                            Comment


                            • Half a gallon of beer and a Subwoofer - an ornament in my room

                              Originally posted by zindra View Post
                              ..
                              I use Rythmik Audio F12SE with my SHL5. Previously, I tried Boston Acoustics with disastrous results. Did try Velodyn, Sunfire, and Rel T3 but Ryhtmik is value for money and no other subwoofer give you as much control like the Ryhtmik. Never tried passive subwoofers except for the Rockford Punch subwoofer that I use in my car.

                              I connect them directly from the Preamplifier unbalanced output. If you preamplifier does not have two pairs of output then you can use a Y cable. You can also connect after your Amplifier using the speakers wires. Rel and Rythmik’s manuals explain in detail of the different connecting methods.

                              Please be forewarned that the use of Subwoofers may muddy your sound and it is almost impossible to say that you can improve the original sound of SHL5 with the addition of a Subwoofer. I have done room measurement using REW and XTZ Room Analyzers but it seems in reality these measurements do not really work in small rooms correctly.

                              The best results that I achieved was by tuning the Subwoofer phase, volume and crossover point using my ears after getting the general setting based on calculations as given by the Subwoofer designer and the Room Analyzers software. For reasons unknown, the best phase setting I use now is about 150 degrees. The calculated value supposed to be about 40 degrees. My hearing maybe malfunctioning.

                              Now, how much did the sound improve with the addition of a Subwoofer? Initially, it was fun. It shook every part of my room but when the euphoria died down and when I strive to get the most accurate representation of the recorded sound I realize my subwoofer is practically doing nothing. Only on rare occasions I do hear the subwoofer working for some electronically induced deep bass. Other than that, it is just a piece of ornament in my music room.

                              However, all is not lost because I do push the volume of the subwoofer when some bass crazed visitors drop by. For some the constant bass beats seemed to bring them some enjoyment. I too enjoy that after downing half a gallon of beer.

                              ST

                              Comment


                              • A good sub

                                Hello Zindra,

                                I use a MJ Acoustics ref150mk2 subwoofer with my m30's with very good results, I also had used JLaudio f110 with mixed results. If I had to back to life without a sub it would be difficult. I find that subs mate pretty well with m30's if crossover on the sub is set pretty low, usually less than 50hz. I have my sub connected to the speaker terminals on my LFD amp, works really well. For rock, electronic, movies I just turn the volume of the subwoofer up a bit to get that bit more OOMPH in the lowest frequencies, when listening to acoustic, piano, vocal etc I turn the subwoofer right down to the point where it only act as a "support" for the lowest frequencies where the m30's dont reach.
                                I have to agree with STHS5 regarding mating a subwoofer with the SHL5's, the bass is so good on those speakers one never really feel like a sub is needed at all.
                                I always felt like the sub took some magic away from the SHL5, but I find that a good sub can have the opposite effect with the m30's making them sound amazing.

                                Comment

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