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Since its inception ten years ago, the Harbeth User Group's ambition has been to create a lasting knowledge archive. Knowledge is based on facts and observations. Knowledge is timeless. Knowledge is human independent and replicatable. However, we live in new world where thanks to social media, 'facts' have become flexible and personal. HUG operates in that real world.

HUG has two approaches to contributor's Posts. If you have, like us, a scientific mind and are curious about how the ear works, how it can lead us to make the right - and wrong - decisions, and about the technical ins and outs of audio equipment, how it's designed and what choices the designer makes, then the factual area of HUG is for you. The objective methods of comparing audio equipment under controlled conditions has been thoroughly examined here on HUG and elsewhere and can be easily understood and tried with negligible technical knowledge.

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The Moderators' decision is final in all matters regarding what appears here. That said, very few Posts are rejected. HUG Moderation individually spell and layout checks Posts for clarity but due to the workload, Posts in the Subjective Soundings area, from Oct. 2016 will not be. We regret that but we are unable to accept Posts that present what we consider to be free advertising for products that Harbeth does not make.

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New Harbeth P3ESR

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  • #46
    Re: New Harbeth P3ESR

    Surely no such review can have been undertaken. We would know about it from here and authorise it from here at HQ. Maybe the review was the P3ES2? I think it may have been. When we are in production of course we will authorise and release P3ESR for review. It really should be no surprise that a Harbeth-made RADIAL woofer which Alan has been working on for some years beats a stock polypropylene driver!

    There is a pair of production grade P3ESR at Harbeth Japan which has been an exceptionally good market for Harbeth since our second year of trading in 1978 (31 years ago) with a very big customer base. Eventually that pair will be reviewed, but not yet.

    Our sales/production staff tell me they are concerned that some markets have not planned for the new P3ESR. Even this morning for example an export customer suddenly woke up and realised that he'd forgotten to order P3ESR and asked for immediate delivery. Sadly, that's not possible and we had to break the news that the earliest date for new, unplanned orders is 12-16 weeks from today.

    Just as we start production with a substantial order backlog to clear not the time to be overstimulating demand with unplanned reviews I think you'll agree.
    Harbeth PR,
    Harbeth UK

    Comment


    • #47
      Re: P3ESR - update (1) - final woofer and PCB layout

      Originally posted by rockadelic View Post
      Hello to all,
      I heard from my Harbeth dealer that there was a review conducted by a magazine between the stirling broadcast & the P3ESR recently, and the conclusion was that P3ESR edged out the stirlings. Any confirmation on it? And if so, what were the actual details of the outcome? Cheers!
      I think it was the 2001 LS3/5a shootout in Hifi News (see attachment), conducted with an older type Harbeth P3/LS3.5a.
      Attached Files

      Comment


      • #48
        Forgot to order P3ESR?

        Harbethpr,

        I just picked myself off the floor. Imagine that you are the Harbeth importer in that unnamed country, responsible for a sizable number of dealers. The alarm clock goes at 7:15 AM, and suddenly the unnamed importer recounts the latest stocking order.... Hmm lets see... 4 pr. M 40.1, 5 pr. M30, 6 pr. M 20, 8 pr.HL5, 10 pr. Compact 7ES-3, and 6 pr. P3ES-2. Yep that ought to do it. Oh wait a minute.. Oh $%&@# !!!

        Then that horrible sick feeling comes over, followed by a cold sweat. It will be 3 to 4 months before anyone in that region takes delivery on the hottest small speaker right now, period. And that is the best case scenario.

        I feel bad for all the people that must wait, and I feel bad for Harbeth.

        Peace,
        Lorpuris

        Comment


        • #49
          New Harbeth P3ESR: order queue ....

          I'll answer this one.

          We publicly, not secretly, announced the P3ESR in January 09 at THE Show, Las Vegas. It was immediately written-up here in the Harbeth User Group. It is unprecedented that a commercial business like Harbeth should feel so confident about a new product that it is willing to discuss the entire position in public, and to alert 'competitors' to our marketing plans and timescales. That's what we have been doing for six months now.

          The CES announcements were immediately followed by a Price List and coverage in several public Newsletters and private ones to our sales channel and here. I personally, at every point of contact with trade customers (such as at the Munich show last month) have urged them to be sure that they have enough orders placed on us for what is, as you say, a 'hot product'.

          We've been taking orders since immediately after the CES in January*. The initial production date was April, but as has been covered here, that was revised to June. So, we now have six months of orders to chomp our way through, in strict sequence. I really can't see what else Harbeth can or should do: we've offered the product, priced it, accepted and confirmed orders and will deliver to those confirmations in the quantity, quality and veneer choices ordered.

          Frankly, I still wonder if our sales channels fully understand the significance of this model and it's performance capabilities - and the likely demand. Fortunately for them, we do: and we have laid down a huge commitment in pre-paid piece-part stock to support production 'putting our money where our mouth is'. This P3ESR is a really astonishing little box as you would expect for the amount of effort I've invested in its design. But Harbeth can only do it's best to keep up with demand, in sequence, order by order. If you have any concerns about delivery in your market please contact your retailer (or importer) to get an accurate picture about deliveries.

          I have withheld offering P3ESR for review at this time to be sure that we can clear the back-orders before whipping up even more demand. We don't want to keep loyal Harbeth users waiting longer than absolutely necessary. Thanks for your understanding.

          -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

          * One factor to remember .... in January 09 the global 'credit crunch' was big news. The global retail trade were unable to judge the effect on general consumer behavior, and specifically in our industry on hi-fi retail sales. Those who had been through economic cycles suspected that sales of a hand made, high quality, long-lived niche product like a Harbeth would be unaffected by economic turbulence - that has proved to be the situation. However, it has resulted in a degree of caution creeping in some markets and a misreading by them of a few months of lower than normal trade as the end of consumerism. Those markets are going to have the greatest difficulty getting back into the Harbeth production queue.
          Alan A. Shaw
          Designer, owner
          Harbeth Audio UK

          Comment


          • #50
            Re: New Harbeth P3ESR

            Good things are worth waiting for, as I have discovered since becoming a Harbeth dealer !!!

            Comment


            • #51
              Re: New Harbeth P3ESR

              I wonder how easy load, for an amplifier, the new P3ESR will be compared to other Harbeth models? My dealer think that the Compact 7ES3 is the one that most benefit much power (not tried 40.1).

              What model do you think is the easiest load for small amplifiers of today's Harbeth models?
              Thank you.

              Comment


              • #52
                Easy load - yes of course it is

                Could it be that you just don't believe me when I say, time after time, that I design for an easy load? Please believe me that I do everything in my power and ability to prevent speaker-amp matching problems or never-ending questions about speaker-amp matching. Perhaps you don't believe what I have written here (read point 2) about the design process of the P3ESR? Or here (point 3) in the Overview. Or customer feedback here. Or how I say here (last paragraph) that, and I quote ......

                "As I have said here many many times over the years, I am acutely - and I repeat that, acutely aware right through the entire design process that the impedance of a Harbeth must be benign. A Harbeth is designed to be amplifier friendly. It has to have an easy electrical load. It has to work with, as I've said before, 'any competently designed amplifier working to its manufacturers original specification'. That being so, our dealers and distributors can proceed to sell Harbeth to any customer and be confident that they will make a great sound at home with whatever the user already has for amplification."

                What do I have to say or do to avoid spending hour after hour restating our position - that we design for an easy load because we don't want to spend the rest of our lives reassuring users about this non-issue.

                We are a commercial company. The more speakers we sell to more satisfied customers the more successful we are. We design Harbeth speakers to be an easy electrical load on the user's existing amplifer so that the user does not have to invest in a new expnsive amplifier. He can get great results with his existing amp. Happy users tell their friends and that means we sell more speakers. That's why we deliberately
                design Harbeth speakers to present an easy electrical load to the user's existing amplifier. Simple as that.
                Alan A. Shaw
                Designer, owner
                Harbeth Audio UK

                Comment


                • #53
                  Re: Easy load - yes of course it is

                  Originally posted by A.S. View Post
                  ... I quote ......

                  "As I have said here many many times over the years, I am acutely - and I repeat that, acutely aware right through the entire design process that the impedance of a Harbeth must be benign. A Harbeth is designed to be amplifier friendly. It has to have an easy electrical load. It has to work with, as I've said before, 'any competently designed amplifier working to its manufacturers original specification'. That being so, our dealers and distributors can proceed to sell Harbeth to any customer and be confident that they will make a great sound at home with whatever the user already has for amplification."....
                  Thank you for your answer.

                  I have read all you have written about this. I have at home both the HL5 and the P3ES2. I think that they both are an easy load, but I feel that HL5 is easier than P3ES2.

                  You have told us that the new P3ESR would be an easier load than the P3ES2. I do not question that Harbeths are not an easy load, I just asked for difference between models.
                  The reason is that I have plan for a second system with my very small chipamp. I was planning for the new P3ESR but wondered if some of the other models were even more easy for this purpose? Sorry if you misunderstand me.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Re: Easy load - yes of course it is

                    In the P3ESR design brief here, point 2 says ....

                    "2. Design for an easier electrical load on the amplifier = increase the impedance from the P3's 4 ohms to about 6 ohms so that the P3ESR needs less power and a smaller amplifier"

                    Does that answers the question?
                    Alan A. Shaw
                    Designer, owner
                    Harbeth Audio UK

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Re: Easy load - yes of course it is

                      Originally posted by A.S. View Post
                      In the P3ESR design brief here, point 2 says ....

                      "2. Design for an easier electrical load on the amplifier = increase the impedance from the P3's 4 ohms to about 6 ohms so that the P3ESR needs less power and a smaller amplifier"

                      Does that answers the question?
                      I have read that, I just wondered if some of the other models was an even more easy lod than this new P3ESR?
                      T.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Re: Easy load - yes of course it is

                        The electrical load of P3ESR, M40.1, C7ES3, M30, SHL5 is about equal. I've noticed chip ICs being used inside even some upmarket (Scottish made I think) amplifiers. In the Active Circle 5 (8" woofer, similar to C7/M30/SHL5 woofer) made for HHB, we used a TDA chip amp push-pull circuit and it worked extremely well. In fact, at an exhibition I noticed that the fancy amp was using a bank of exactly the same general purpose TDA DMOS output chips as we had!
                        Alan A. Shaw
                        Designer, owner
                        Harbeth Audio UK

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Re: Easy load - yes of course it is

                          Originally posted by A.S. View Post
                          The electrical load of P3ESR, M40.1, C7ES3, M30, SHL5 is about equal.
                          Thank You!
                          Just what I was asking for.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Re: Easy load - yes of course it is

                            Glad to help. Which chips will you actually be using?
                            Alan A. Shaw
                            Designer, owner
                            Harbeth Audio UK

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Re: Easy load - yes of course it is

                              Originally posted by A.S. View Post
                              The electrical load of P3ESR, M40.1, C7ES3, M30, SHL5 is about equal. I've noticed chip ICs being used inside even some upmarket (Scottish made I think) amplifiers. In the Active Circle 5 (8" woofer, similar to C7/M30/SHL5 woofer) made for HHB, we used a TDA chip amp push-pull circuit and it worked extremely well. In fact, at an exhibition I noticed that the fancy amp was using a bank of exactly the same general purpose TDA DMOS output chips as we had!
                              Originally posted by A.S. View Post
                              Glad to help. Which chips will you actually be using?
                              The chip is a national LM3875

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Re: Easy load - yes of course it is

                                Yes, we considered that one. We selected the TDA (if I remember correctly) because of its advanced anti-thump mute circuitry. That totally eliminated any power-on power-off thump to the speakers: very impressive.
                                Alan A. Shaw
                                Designer, owner
                                Harbeth Audio UK

                                Comment

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