C7Se3 + Skylan Stand => How to tame the bass
Running a Naim system pairing a nice pair of C7se3 (on skylan Stand filled as required) i would like to know what can i do to tame the bass (Example in the last Kate Bush the bass are heavy and round...feel that bass as much as it should be)
Tks for your advice
Away from walls
I'd first trying playing with the position of your speakers. If they near any walls, pull them out into the room a little more and see how that sounds. It's possible that, in their current position, your speakers are interacting with your room in such a way that the lower frequencies sound more pronounced.
Tone controls solve room bass boost
If there are no tone controls on the amp, I can't think of any way other than giving the speakers more room around them.
Originally Posted by Hififan
Correct speaker placement .... and Kate Bush album
Correct placement is vital with any speaker - get that right and you should have no trouble.
You mention the latest Kate Bush album but does the fulsome bass occur on the majority of recordings or on some ?
Try lightweight stands
Hi , probably not happy combination of equipment, stands, cables/wires, speaker positioning, room size and acoustics :-(
But I suggest, after you've tried replacing the speakers, you try some lightweight rigid wooden benches.
I do use IKEA Oddvar tabourets myself with C7ES-3's, in Suisse they cost CHF17 a piece.
Cheap enough to give it a go, I would say ;-)
Before and after response using room correction
Try plugging the port.
And for the long term, see if you can improve the room's acoustics somehow. Or invest in a modern day equalizer. e.g. the upcoming anti-mode 2.0. I run the previous (mono) model with my home theater subwoofer and it's a fantastic tool.
Here's the before and after response of said subwoofer with the antimode with just the press of a button and two minutes of waiting.*
*The picture represents the basic frequency response of my subwoofer (which should be flat in response to a bit below 20hz according to spec) in my room, the calibration level is 80db accross the entire frequency line.
The purple line represents the before situation, as you can see the subwoofer plays about 5db too strong most of the time with a peak of 10db a bit above 50hz, this is very audibile! Most people would just turn down the overall volume, this works well for the low bass, but the very low bass (-30hz) will be compromised, which kind of makes no sense, as it is a subwoofer.
The blue line represents the response after calibration. As you can see it's now a lot flatter, which brings out the full potential of the subwoofer and makes it much easier to integrate.
LF adjustement in domestic room
From what I have read here, it is almost impossible to do this for low frequencies in a domestic environment.
Originally Posted by TimVG
Consider decay time and frequency response
That is true for frequency response, but not so much for decay time. A short decay time is also important for a good sounding bass in-room.
Originally Posted by Kumar Kane
Setup and previous bass experiences in my room
The distance from back wall is about 65cm. The point is that i have a big element between speaker (Tv video,.....but nothing about audio ;-) ) and the distance from speakers is something like 40cm
As part of the WAF i have some limitation so have to move sloooooowly to avoid any home crisis ;-)
X X (List. Pos) Info : 1.5 speakers distance.
I know (based on some other speaker i had before) that my room (at least current position) is not bass friendly and it's not only the last Kate Bush ;-) (Beautiful album by the way). But as the C7s are really nice one i would like to extract the best from them .
Have you anything between the speaker and the stand besides the small rubbers that came with the stand?
Stands, and realism about room tuning
With all respect for opinions, but things that you put between a speaker and the stand aren't going to do anything for the frequency response in a room, unless it's a really bad stand that resonates at certain frequencies.
I've read another thread here that said something about special rubber feet to put under them with a very heavy kitty litter filled stand so that the speaker puts all of the energy in moving the air instead of itself. No offence, but I do believe that a person like designer A. Shaw who designed the speakers is capable enough of making sure his speakers can do all of that without any special accessories..
As I already suggested, I'm sure this problem is room related, and the solution lies in either treating the room, or adapting the speaker's response to match the room.
It's really that simple.
My experiments with stand decoupling
I have some experiences with decoupling pads between stands and speakers. First of all I was very stubborn to use cheap stands, from ikea from lack table to odvar chairs in order to understand the speaker and design my own stands (on the future days) . And yes, the Harbeths sounds ok on this suports, but if you want to extract maximum from speakers you have to take care at few details...
So after a long and funny experiments, I made a pad composed from three different materials: a plastic from ikea also , a self adhesive cork from Auchan and a piece of corian from Dupont. I use 3 pads for every speaker with one in the front and two in the back. But these pads, are working also on the Sound Anchor stands (better than blue dots, wich come with the stands).
So my conclusion is the pads must have 3 layers with good contacts betwen they. And yes the bass is very clean.
I know, you believe that is not any science in this, but that experiments works for me.
Yep, i have the "Q-brick" (which provided with my Skylan)
Originally Posted by Don Jr
Q-Bricks and big sonic difference
Try removing them so the speaker is on the little round rubber feet attached to the top of the stand. I'm not sure about the Q Bricks, but what I was using completely changed the sound in my room. I can't decipher differences in speaker cables, power cords and the like, but the difference when I removed the rubber pucks from under my speakers would be noticeable to anyone's ear.
What about spikes
What about spike ?
Today i'm using the screw with plastic head provided in the same pack as the spike (on the Skylan stand package). Never user the spike.
What can i espect ? Worth trying ?
My experiences with room interface
I also use the screw with plastic head. They work well for me on hardwood flooring. What's your flooring and is there a cellar beneath? I can give you my opinion based on my wooden framed home in the U.S. I've been to Switzerland and I can assure you that your building materials are of a higher standard than here in the U.S.
I've had monitors on stands filled with sand previously and I could feel vibration in my flooring through my feet and hands. I do not feel this with the Harbeth C7 / Skylan stands filled with kitty litter. At this point my system sounds wonderful and I am very happy.
I've tried various tweaks in my systems over the years and most of them have been a complete waste of money and time. Speaker cable and bi-wiring being the first on the list. For the life of me I cannot hear the difference between $800 speaker cables and lamp cord. Super duper power cords do not even raise one eyebrow because I do not hear a difference.
Any issue I've ever had with the reproduction of music has been the connection of the stand to the floor and the connection of the speaker to the stand. My home is a suspended wood floor over a cellar. At one point I had an issue with the rear wall behind the speakers, which I tore out and stuffed with fiberglass insulation. I know that sounds extreme but I was remodeling my bathroom which is on the other side of the wall so it was an inexpensive 'tweak'. I find hollow walls behind speakers to create havoc with extreme bass on sound reproduction.
I'm far from an engineer and can only work within the limits of my imagination and what I learn from all of you. I do not have fancy test equipment nor the time or money to invest in it. All I have is my ears, which are mine and I'm stuck with them.
If I were to give my opinion of what you are experiencing based on my experiences, I would first suggest removing the Q Bricks. If that does not work, I would move my speakers farther away from the walls if they are not insulated or solid. If your speakers are on carpeting (rug) I would try the spikes that came with the stands.
Don't use spikes on wooden flooring
Yes the spikes... I have also some experience with spikes (by the way, don't buy spikes from viablue).
The floor is also important for a speaker behavior, for example: tile floor is the worst...
For wood floor I use steel spikes and brass coins with a self adhesive cork (for damping but on the upper side) as a spikes shoes.
And again my personal conclusion is: It's a mistake to use spikes directly on the wood floor.
Test result adjusting speaker positioning in-room
Here is my feedback after several test ;-)
1) Speaker with more distance from the Rear Wall : Very Bad WAF ;-) and sound not really better (today 65 cm from the Wall)
2) Speaker with more distance between them : A bit better but not realistic as at eat risk from Chimney. (today 185 cm)
3) Q-Brick (provided by Skylan as option for Stands) removed from my stands : That's it, sound is now more linear (not dull but lot less pronounced at the bottom) The Piano is still very nice but bass are (on my system) more at my taste. The Q-Brick is for sure reenforcing the lower freq, so could be very valuable solution in a bright room, but definitivly not in mine ;-)
Q-bricks are a must!
So it's me again.
After running my C7 WITHOUT the Q-Bricks during the on full day, i finally had the feeling that the sound was now a bit narrow, with a smaller soundstage, had also to turn the knob a bit more than usal.
Though that was not a "goog day" for music (as it happen some day ;-) ), but to convince me, i decided for another try WITH Q-Bricks........and the result is.....have to say....LOT BETTER WITH......yes the bass is a bit more than needed (my own taste) but the rest is so beautifull....mid and high with lot more detail, air. C7 look definitivly lot bigger WITH Q-Bricks than without.
Would say now that's a MUST if pairing an Skylan stands
M two cents