finally today I received my new P3ESR rosewo...BUT does they have defects on the color of the wood??

[pablozz]

hi all, today I received my first couple of P3ESR finish rosewood.

The sound is fantastic! I had in the past a couple of P3ES2, but these are better for me. I am very happy on the sound.

BUT...BUT... I am a little astonished on the finish. I have found on the wood side panel some bright spots in the position where the tree branch was cut.

1) Please can you help me if it is a typical finish or probably a defects? unfortunately I am thinking that it is a defects, but I would like to be sure and share with you experiences because I thought that the quality control in harbeth is very high.

2) for people that have already p3esr rosewood: do you have the same finish with these clear lines?

In attachment you can find some photos on my new p3esr... many thanks for your feedback,
regards

[KT88]

This might be considered a normal variation in the wood grain, but I wouldn't accept it. I would be sure to get a response from Andy at Harbeth about this. It would be a shame to have to wait again for a new pair, though.

Good luck with this.

[Will]

Did you get these new from an authorized dealer?

[pablozz]

Yes I bought these new p3esr from an authorized dealer. I just waited less than 1 week from the order. But I spent more than 1 year to select the best monitor (for me) in the market...

I was completely surprised on these low quality on the wood selection. Last month my carpenter has made ​​my wooden furniture in the living room, but I didn't find no signs so evident on the wood compare to these p3esr. Surprised.

I know that harbeth has big quality control http://www.harbeth.co.uk/uk/index.ph...ethinthemaking.

I don't know why I received a similar wood...I selected the most expensive finish available. Is it normal?

many many thanks for your help

{Moderator's comment: as you can see this is a natural feature in the tree. Care has been taken to match this natural grain feature on both cabinets. It is not really a QC issue. It is a matter of taste. We will advise shortly.}

[Andy]

This is a natural feature in the veneer which is highlighted by the camera and the hard light of the flash.

However I do agree it may not be to everyones taste so please contact you local distributor, Hi-Fi United who will be able to help you.

Kind regards,

Andy

[pablozz]

thanks to moderator. what it is strange for me is that probably sometimes we confuse natural feature with something that could be based on the way we are cutting the wood. it looks like that the wood was cutted on the high part in one direction and on the lower part on the opposite direction. this could explain why we see different color and reflection and also the white line in the middle. during night with artificial light the difference on color on the same side is very high.

before to buy I looked to a lot of photos on the web on p3esr. I have never seen a similar finish.

{Moderator's comment: No. The entire panel side is one piece of veneer, a slice of the tree. Not two pieces. So we are sure this is a 100% natural feature of this one unique tree.}

[1ryal]

Congratulations on your wise choice of speaker.

They look beautiful to my eye, a real slice of mother nature
Jim

[engjoo]

My view: I don't like it but I do agree that it is not considered a defect. Given a choice, I will not choose this piece myself.

When I got my P3ESR, it was the only piece I can decide to buy or not. There was an area of a side which showed much lighter shades which to me isn't as pleasing as some exmples I have seen. Having said that, I agree that variations between veneers is something which is difficult to manage.

In my view, this may have to do with decision over how veneers where graded, selected or rejected for the cabinets. If more veneers are rejected, it simply means the cost will go up. Probably certain relationship has to exist between a huge order book and managing supply and cost ?

[A.S.]

My view: I don't like it but I do agree that it is not considered a defect... In my view, this may have to do with decision over how veneers where graded, selected or rejected for the cabinets. If more veneers are rejected, it simply means the cost will go up. Probably certain relationship has to exist between a huge order book and managing supply and cost ?

Thanks for your feedback on this particular pair. I've looked at the pictures, taken a look at rosewood speakers on the production line today and am now in a better position to comment.

First: As my staff well know, the cosmetic appearance of any veneer greatly depends upon the type of light falling on it. A standard incandescent bulb, a modern CF bulb, a fluorescent strip light and natural sunlight will all present the veneer in a different way, and some will emphasise features that others will completely mask. A camera flashlight does magnify grain features. So in production both at the cabinet makers and at Harbeth, the selection and positioning of factory lighting and its proximity to the cabinets has a very large influence on what grain features we can actually see, what we think of them, whether they are truly natural (as your is), whether they evidence avoidable human errors (scratches) and so on. A cabinet that would sail through inspection under incandescent lighting may reveal multiple issues when viewed under halogen lamps (or vice versa) and not only that, the angle of incidence (and polarity) of the lighting critically effects appearence too. So for these reasons, there cannot ever be a hard, black and white QC pass/fail for veneered cabinets. If only it were that simple! Trined humans must make decisions on pass/fail and naturally, they will have their own tastes, preferences and likes/dislikes.

Second: What we are really weeding out from production is cabinets that evidence the occasional human error such as too much/too little lacquer. When working with natural materials we have laid down a fairly wide range of cosmetics that we will accept* from our suppliers and providing the cabinets meet our basic QC requirements we will accept and pass on a significant variation in vener characteristics. Most fall withing a general range, but inevitably a few are at the extremes of nature - and I'd say that yours is just that. The veneer leaf that forms your pair (matched, left to right speaker) records something unusual and interesting in the life of that tree. It's not really our role to discriminate against that tree, but I completely understand that this unique pair may not be to your personal taste. Personally, I like the idea of owning a pair with a grain that will never, ever be seen again: but that's just my preference.

Third: I hestiate to show you pictures, even videos, of the destruction of (rosewood) cabinets which failed QC on 'human error' grounds, which have rather neutral and standard veneers. But you are right - we occasionally get into protracted disagreements with cabinet suppliers over issues where we put our foot down and they say 'natural feature'. Clearly they have no use for the occasional returns from us that fall into that category and they know that if we were to really push the issue and it went to court, we'd be unlikely to win: refusal to pay just because we don't like a natural veneer pattern just wouldn't stand-up. We have no choice: to protect the Harbeth brand image we sometimes just have to take the hit and destroy the cabinets for those 'grey-area' cosmetics. But we have to be realistic or as you say, costs would increase and worse, the already wafer-thin supply options would turn their back on us. What then?

All of this is background. Above all, we want contented customers. If this pair is not to your liking, the best option is for you to have a friendly discussion with your retailer mentioning this thread, and to arrange with them to examine other options. We've already reported your comments to Harbeth Italy, and feel sure that - stock levels permitting - a satisfactory conculsion for all parties can be reached very soon.

* Actually, a wide range in veneer which means that no two pairs look the same aids job morale on the 'line.

[pablozz]

thanks Alan. I can confirm that also with natural sunlight we have the same effect. obviously less pronunced but always evident.

my first question was not polemic...just to know if it is a quite standard finish for p3esr rosewood... I wanted to know if I was the first user with this feature. I don't see on the web any similar photo...

[Will]

From the point of view of a customer... if I had spent considerable time visiting stores and reading reviews to select a speaker, slowly saved up my money over several months if not years, researched the Harbeth company and bought into their reputation for quality, scrutinized all the pictures online of the various beautiful veneers, then finally pulled the trigger and took the boxes home... imagine my great disappointment, maybe even anger and getting a pair that looked like this.

As Harbeth says, the dealer will hopefully take care of the customer properly here, but still, what should have been a joyous moment (the unboxing) was ruined. Now it is in damage control phase. For me, my life is stressful enough that I don't need more stress caused by my hobby. I surely hope buyers follow-up dealings with the dealer will go nice and smooth and with the same courtesy as he received before he bought the speakers. But I kind of doubt it.

From the dealers point of view, if he takes them back, he is now stuck with an open-box "demo" speaker... who will take the hit for that? In my experience with dealers, they will make the customer pay.

[Heretic]

Hello Pablozz,

actually, you have a very unique pair of P3ESRs ... My pair also has a very close serial number to yours, less than 30 units (by assumption of running numbers, that is) earlier than yours and with more "normal" looking veneers. If you weren't so far away, i wouldn't mind swapping my pair for yours as I think the across-pattern really lends a sense of uniqueness and individuality to your pair.

Then there's always the notion of being more acceptable to what nature gives us (in this case, the veneer patterns) and since it doesn't really affect the functionality, perhaps a re-consideration (and a helping hand in reducing our carbon footprints) might be worth a thought?

Sound-wise, its a no brainer... they'd all perform just the same right ?

All IMO, of course.

[A.S.]

From the point of view of a customer... if I had spent considerable time visiting stores and reading reviews to select a speaker, slowly saved up my money over several months if not years, researched the Harbeth company and bought into their reputation for quality, scrutinized all the pictures online of the various beautiful veneers, then finally pulled the trigger and took the boxes home... imagine my great disappointment, maybe even anger and getting a pair that looked like this.

As Harbeth says, the dealer will hopefully take care of the customer properly here, but still, what should have been a joyous moment (the unboxing) was ruined. Now it is in damage control phase. For me, my life is stressful enough that I don't need more stress caused by my hobby. I surely hope buyers follow-up dealings with the dealer will go nice and smooth and with the same courtesy as he received before he bought the speakers. But I kind of doubt it.

From the dealers point of view, if he takes them back, he is now stuck with an open-box "demo" speaker... who will take the hit for that? In my experience with dealers, they will make the customer pay.

What a gloomy, miserable, depressing read that is.

When the managing director and designer of a product says, in public a few posts back ...

... We've already reported your comments to Harbeth Italy, and feel sure that - stock levels permitting - a satisfactory conculsion for all parties can be reached very soon.

I think you can be pretty damned confident that he's been involved behind the scenes and exactly what he says will happen. Don't you?

I/we cannot legally bind any one of our sales outlets to do anything. But we have an excellent global team of like-minded people who respond to resonable customer requests, who like us value contented customers and who will, stock levels permitting be able to solve this. Alternatively, Moderator could have pulled the #1 post here with its photos and we could have buried the issue from view. But we didn't. We're taking responsibility for solving it using diplomacy, not the cosh and that needs a little patience and goodwill from here right along the sales channel.

After all, this is not a QC issue: it's a consumer cosmetic preference issue.

[pablozz]

hi Alan, repeat: it is not polemic for me. I AM VERY HAPPY ON THE QUALITY SOUND FOR THIS PRODUCT. VERY HAPPY. Quality sound is the first feature I consider in the hifi.

After said that, I was only curious on the exterior finish on other p3esr sold. Just to know if my p3esr was unique. NOW I KNOW THAT ARE UNIQUE!! thanks again for your care

[GregD]

Personally I think the OP speakers look beautiful and unique. A natural feature is a natural feature - it's not better or worse, but some will disagree on aesthetic preferences I suppose. Some place particular value on uniqueness, like the poster who wanted to do a swap with the OP!

The fact is, all veneered Harbeth speakers are unique because each cabinet comes from a different bit of tree. You'll never see one JUST LIKE your ones. Much better than Piano Gloss Black (IMO).

Alan deserves praise and respect for openly dealing with this issue in my view. It's well-known that Harbeth's distributors are good people who go the extra mile for customers - just look at Sasamoto-san of Harbeth Japan in the wake of the disasterous events earlier this year in Japan. They repaired many damaged Harbeths after the earthquake to virtually-new standard - for free!

I think Harbeth's response to customer issues is way better and more transparent than practically any company you care to name. It's one of the best things about Harbeth.

[Don Jr]

I have to agree with GregD that it looks beautiful and unique. I can't help but wonder what that tree looked like.

I actually found myself day dreaming the tree as I looked at your pictures and it was the most peaceful moment I've had all day here at work.

I can certainly understand why some people would dislike it but I personally love the different grain patterns, color variations and especially knots in wood veneers and furniture.

[cornelius]

That was one funky tree! I really like the uniqueness - beautiful.

[Art K]

My pair have anomalies as well. The veneer on the top of one rolls just a bit which can be seen in the right light. I love my pair and see the variation as part of the charm...to each his own I suppose.

[pablozz]

FOR ALAN: it is quite impossible to imagine for me that managing director was reading and interested in my doubts on my new pe3sr. i like to have "natural things" but in the first impression I was quite confusing on how much natural were my p3esr.

yesterday evening I spent with my wife/child hours to listen our new harbeth. they created a so fantastic atmosphere in the house. incredible and warm sound. my wife is a pianist and her impression, on some piano CD we heard, were so enthusiastic.

after all these writing in this post, I have to say that I spent a lot of time and money to select the speaker, and I have to say thanks to you Alan and your team on the sound you are able to recreate on a so small cabinet. your hard work is appreciated. repeat, my post was not to depreciate your work.

[Spindrift]

Same here for liking the natural features in the wood grain of this stunning rosewood pair.

Harbeth at least give us interesting, individual and exciting wood-patterns of which we can be proud. No boring grain which resembles that of artificial vinyl-wrap 'veneer', all to common on modern speakers (even some so-called piano-finish units have vinyl as a base).

Mo Iqbal, founder and former owner of Monitor Audio would love this pair; he is from Africa and likes unusual, even wild grain-patterns and whenever he could, he would see to it that his most expensive 'Studio' series models would get the most exciting wood, with eye-patterns, wild flames and contrasting colours. Like a Harbeth, no MA Studio speaker looked boring.