Absolute Sound: SHL5s comment on balance? (Old)

[gingerly]

Just wondering if the following is true, not having seen any plots on this speaker.

SHL5s have a certain
relaxation in the region between
2kHz and 4kHz, with a return to
level above that, whereas the M
series are essentially ruler-flat
across this region. This dip in the
region of maximum hearing
sensitivity tempers aggressive
recordings, and arguably makes the
speaker more agreeable over a
wider range of material, though I
personally prefer the M40's behavior
in this regard. I n any case, the dip
gives the SHL5's sound a certain
character in the treble.

[kittykat]

Just wondering if the following is true, not having seen any plots on this speaker.

page 50 of issue 84 UHF magazine (downloadable from their website) is the only one ive seen. Not sure how it was measured though.

[Sebastien]

Hi,

No answer on this one yet. I'm also curious to know more about that. Alan, what do you think of the sentence above regarding the SHL5?

Thank you,

Sébastien

[A.S.]

Hi,

No answer on this one yet. I'm also curious to know more about that. Alan, what do you think of the sentence above regarding the SHL5?

Thank you,

Sébastien

I am not able to comment meaningfully on other commentator's opinions. There are so many speaker experts that we would drown each other out with cross-commenting.

There is always a danger that by concentrating on one aspect of the performance of a piece of equipment that other equally or even more relevant factors are not given proper attention. For example, when considering the specification of a digital camera you can be greatly influenced by the number of pixels (such as 12Mbit) but you should take a more holistic overview and consider the performance of the lens, the metering system, colour rendition, zoom, focus and all the other vital factors.

What matters is what you think, what sound suits you. Only you can decide on that after a proper listening session with music you are familiar with at a good dealers.

[gingerly]

I appreciate your taking the opportunity to answer, Alan. I'm currently kicking tyres on speakers, and the SHL5's are definitely amongst my top contenders. My question is provoked by my observation listening to them in a dealer showroom. Compared to my recollection of my Royd speakers (which I used to distribute here in the US) they seemed rolled off. Adjusting my listening position relative to the tweeters improved things, but reading that review made me wonder if my observations were correct. The UHF review measurements (link above) seem to verify the Absolute Sound observation, thus my curiosity.

Not trying to create a gotcha moment here - as the speaker designer I realize you make choices based on many factors of the speakers behaviour - cabinet resonances, crossover choices, in room response, etc. Just wondering if this was: a. True and b. a design choice and what the reasoning might be for it. Ultimately I will evaluating them in my listening room and deciding for myself, as you suggest, of course.

[A.S.]

... My question is provoked by my observation listening to them in a dealer showroom. Compared to my recollection of my Royd speakers (which I used to distribute here in the US) they seemed rolled off. Adjusting my listening position relative to the tweeters improved things, but reading that review made me wonder if my observations were correct. The UHF review measurements (link above) seem to verify the Absolute Sound observation, thus my curiosity....

It's time to bang this one on the head - I can see your potential for confusion. The issue that I seem to find myself addressing time after time concerns most so-called hi-fi speakers being far too bright, too toppy, to much high frequency output. We've covered that so many times here (more references anyone?). And whatever design/marketing process (deemed absolutely appropriate even essential for a given speaker brand perhaps?) drives-up the objective/subjective HF levels, it is not a new marketing phenomena. This elevated HF boost is very much alive and in evidence in many (most?) modern speakers so it just will not go away.

If, either because of a compensatory effect for the limitation of your own hearing or simply through exposure you have acclimatised to a speaker with an excessive HF output, reverting to a speaker with a normal 'flat' HF output will make that speaker sound dull. That is a psychoacoustic fact and I carefully illustrated that here.

So, as reviews of the SHL5 have been raised, it's reasonable to compare a contemporary measurements with the speaker line you mention. I have no idea which model, but that hardly matters: the question is, would Harbeth ever bring a speaker to market with an overall response tipped upwards with increasing frequency? The answer is never. So let's look at some historical, public domain curves to illustrate the point. If you look at the y (vertical) axis you can read dBs. A +6dB increase means a doubling in sound pressure generated by the speaker at that frequency relative to another you select.

General HF lift ....

Historical frequency response plot # 1
Historical frequency response plot #2
Historical frequency response plot #3

General upper-midrange lift ....

Historical frequency response plot #4
Historical frequency response plot #5

Attached is a scan of the relevant plots from an HL5 review from HiFi News which is contemporaneous with the above (1990) and you can see for yourself the entirely different approach we have to overall sonic balance, and have had for 35 years. We aim for a basically flat in-room response driven by a basically flat axial frequency response.

I do not doubt that to many satisfied, perhaps elderly customers, a rising frequency response of many decibels may sound attractive, but this upwards-tilted response we have never believed is appropriate for a Harbeth customer. We do not know the specifics of your hearing, your tastes, your equipment, your room, your music. It could be that a rising top compensates for losses in the reproduction chain to your ears/brain and in your case, sound absolutely correct to you. In that case, every Harbeth, with their basically flat responses would indeed sound dull to you, and there would not be one Harbeth that would sound detailed enough for your particular needs and tastes. So I would not expect you to find an alternative to the SHL5 in the Harbeth range which, magically, had the top end characteristics that you are attracted to because they are all designed with basically the same response flatness. This personal bias issue towards what sound right for one listener may sound wrong to another is the reason that there are so many speaker models available on the market. Every speaker brands has its own reasons for shaping the overall response differently, but the question you should ask yourself is: 'are the speakers I'm interested used by professional sound engineers as a tool to create sound or are they solely domestic durables?'. If the answer is, as in Harbeth's case, that hours every day of national TV and radio is actually made on Harbeth speakers, every one with the same overall flat response shape, then you have an answer to the question about how a speaker should measure and sound.

Have you observed the published HF output plots from speaker reviews recently especially above 10kHz? Very often jacked up by 6-10dB in well-known brands. They must be deliberately engineering-in that boost for a marketing reason, either to compensate for the deomograpics of their customers or to create an entirely false sense of 'air' and 'detail'. It could be that if ones HF expectations are a conditioned response through exposure to speakers which are brighter than they should be (as opposed to an equipment/room/hearing issue) that given enough exposure to a flatter speaker (weeks?) one could reset ones internal reference of 'rightness'. All that matters is what sounds right to you.

>

[A.S.]

... If, either because of a compensatory effect for the limitation of your own hearing or simply through exposure you have acclimatised to a speaker with an excessive HF output, reverting to a speaker with a normal 'flat' HF output will make that speaker sound dull.[/COLOR] That is a psychoacoustic fact...

Just to make the point crystal clear by audio example, I have taken a visual average of the rising frequency responses and superimposed them onto music that was recorded flat.

Audio clip 1:

What you will hear is:

- A 0-15 seconds: boosted HF, a boost-tilt of about +4dB starting around 200Hz, average of the shape of plots 1-3 (above post)**
- B 15-30 seconds: boost turned off, return to flat (this is what a Harbeth would sound like)
- C 30-45 seconds: boost turned on again (as A)
- D 45-60 seconds: boost turned off, return to flat (as B)

Loading the player ...

On a short* listening session you may well prefer the brighter (processed) sound of A and C. Many would, and that is an entirely acceptable personal choice. But unprocessed B and D are actually what the performance would sound like, live. And yes, they do sound dull in comparison following the exposure to the boosted A and C - that's the way the ear works.

As a teenager I was fortunate enough to have a job as a Saturday assistant at the local BBC station. I recall asking the Chief Engineer "what exactly is the function of a BBC monitor speaker?...". The craggy old engineer stroked his chin and said "simple ... to prevent my staff making fools of themselves..." by which he meant, that working with speakers that could be trusted to be flat, the recorded sound would be flat and not eq'd to hell in the mixing desk to (unwittingly) compensate for the speakers.

---

*Conversely, on a longer exposure to A/C you may well find the excess brightness less attractive and reverse your opinion in favour of a preference for the natural B/D. Or you may not: there are so many variable to consider. That's why it's important to have a long enough listening session at a good dealers to be sure you have enough exposure to a loudspeaker before purchase. What any one listener may prefer may be anathema to another. All opinions are equally right, but only in the context of the casual domestic listener. From my perspective, there has to be a very good reason to tilt a speaker's frequency balance significantly away from flat. Otherwise the speaker simply is not usable in a 'reference' situation by a professional as he may be duped into inadvertently applying compensating EQ into the recording to correct for his monitoring speaker's characteristics.

** This boost is very approximately the equivalent of operating the QUAD tilt control tilted half-way upwards at the right.

[Gan CK]

Had a couple of Royd speakers long time ago & as far as i can recall, they were very lively & fast but also very forward, bright, lean & mean. Very much like a first generation of Linn Kans.

Some pple like this type of presentation. For me, its definitely not a speaker to listen to in the long haul.

[gingerly]

Alan, I appreciate you taking the time to answer my question, albeit in a round-about way. It is likely that I AM used to a tipped up frequency response. I was actually weighing this idea, but hoping to get an idea of what your data on the HL5's suggests. I am neither an octogenarian enthusiast nor a partially deaf one (I retain much of my audio acuity despite years of abuse, and can still hear just above 14khz) but appreciate your kind attempts to understand my obvious deficits.

Your PDF is most instructive. My apologies for reopening what seems to be a keenly irritating point. Thank you for your time.

[hifi_dave]

Had a couple of Royd speakers long time ago & as far as i can recall, they were very lively & fast but also very forward, bright, lean & mean. Very much like a first generation of Linn Kans.

That about sums them up. We stocked the Royd range for a while, selling a few pairs, mainly because of the favourable low prices. They were good fun in the context of a budget system.

[Sebastien]

...If, either because of a compensatory effect for the limitation of your own hearing or simply through exposure you have acclimatised to a speaker with an excessive HF output, reverting to a speaker with a normal 'flat' HF output will make that speaker sound dull...

Hi Alan,

Actually, and maybe because my ear is acustomed to the Harbeth balanced sound, when I go to the annual Hifi show in Montreal, or the DIY show also in my town, I found that most of the speaker's designs are oriented on an excessive bright side of the music. The Harbeth helped me a lot to be more critic regarding the balance of a speaker and its tonal rightness.

Sébastien