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Thread: Harbeth HL Compact 7ES-3 specific

  1. #81
    Join Date
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    Default Re: Harbeth C7ES 2 to C7ES 3

    Your cabinets were converted (by me actually) to C7ES3 type during production as was the case for the very first production run, over a year ago.
    Alan A. Shaw
    Designer, owner
    Harbeth Audio UK

  2. #82
    oferab Guest

    Default Re: Harbeth C7ES 2 to C7ES 3

    Thanks for your answer

  3. #83
    Dinho Guest

    Default Harbeth 7ES-3 v.s. Single Ended

    Hi,

    Despite I do not have a Herbeth's Loudspeaker (for now), is a pleasure change information about this "legend" in HiFi.

    Now we have an "dealer" in Brazil: GREAT NEWS!!!

    My power is an Single Ended Cary CAD 300SE Signature (an 300B tube based) and, how is characteristic that kind of device, with lower power output. In my system "only" 15Wrms/channel.

    My listen room is small (3mx3m).

    Has somebody experience with the 7ES-3 with lower power output?

    Thanks and I apologise about my poor English and I hope that somebody can understand me (laughs...)

    Dinho

  4. #84
    dgroove Guest

    Default Re: Harbeth 7ES-3 v.s. Single Ended

    Hello,
    I have had tremedous success running a Shindo Montille (15 watts EL 84) into Compact 7ES-3. In light of your room size, I doubt you'll encounter any issues. My room is 10 1/2' by 15'.

  5. #85
    Dinho Guest

    Default Re: Harbeth 7ES-3 v.s. Single Ended

    dgroove,

    Thanks for return.

    Dinho.

  6. #86
    robinje Guest

    Default Binding post holes

    I have ordered a pair of Compact 7ES-3's and I need to determine if my existing speaker cables will work with the speakers when they arrive. The ends of the cables are terminated with spades having an 8mm gap between the "forks" of each spade. Will these fit the Harbeth terminals properly?

    Sorry if this has been covered before, but I found nothing when I did a forum search. Thanks!

  7. #87
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    Default Binding post holes

    I recall it being stated the post diameter is 8.3 mm. However I don't believe the post can be round. I too have spades with a 8.0mm gap. They do not fit if I try an connect them with the "U" oriented up or down. They do however fit nicely if connected horizonally. If you have flexible speaker cables this could work for you too.

    Don
    West Coast Audio

  8. #88
    robinje Guest

    Default Binding post holes

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Leman
    I recall it being stated the post diameter is 8.3 mm. However I don't believe the post can be round. I too have spades with a 8.0mm gap. They do not fit if I try an connect them with the "U" oriented up or down. They do however fit nicely if connected horizonally. If you have flexible speaker cables this could work for you too.

    Don
    West Coast Audio
    It seems odd that the posts would not be round. But if it works for you, it will likely work for me! Thanks for the info.

    Jim

  9. #89
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    Default Binding post holes

    Jim,

    There is a hole through the middle of the post to accomodate hook up with bare wire. The hole is vertical and because of this would remove some of the post material at the top and bottom explaining the reason why the spades fit horizontally.

    Don
    West Coast Audio

  10. #90
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    Default Re: Binding post holes

    I've put an answer to this particular thread here as it applies not only to the HL Compact 7ES3 but to Harbeth binging posts generally: http://www.harbeth.co.uk/usergroup/s...=2570#post2570
    Alan A. Shaw
    Designer, owner
    Harbeth Audio UK

  11. #91
    dpoly Guest

    Default Re: Harbeth HL Compact7ES-3 specific

    Hello,

    I am a new member in the usergroup (location Athens, Greece) willing to buy a pair of the C7ES-3 speakers. I am not a native English speaker, so I apologize for any language errors.

    I have contacted some people owning the specific model in order to have some comments on how they perform and I get as an answer that their performance depends heavily on the stands used. More specifically, I have been told that the bass reproduction is very much dependent on the stand material and the speaker height. The problem is that they get either booming or dry bass.

    Some other persons told me that the rectangular where the speaker will be based on the stand has to be empty inside, so as the speaker will be rest only on the four corners of this rectangle. This helps the speaker to perform as it was designed (without resonances).

    Therefore, I would like to ask you if you have experienced similar problems.

  12. #92
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    Default Re: Harbeth HL Compact7ES-3 specific

    I am very please that you joined the Harbeth User Group. Welcome. You are able to get the facts directly from us here at the factory in the UK.

    Stands: whoever provided you with such 'information' has a vivid imagination. I makes me annoyed to think that this sort of misinformation is being handed out by self-appointed experts especially when the result is confusion of would-be customers. So, as the designer, in my opinion here are the facts ....

    1. The construction of the stand has 0.1% influence on the sound quality.
    2. You can use a pile of bricks, books, or plant-pot stands (like the IKEA ones mentioned here before).
    3. Whether the speakers make a point contact with the stand using spikes, rubber feet, BluTak or similar has 0.0001% effect on sound quality.

    When I am designing Harbeth speakers I can assure you that I pay no attention at all to the construction of the stand. But I do take care over stand height. In the case of the C7ES-3 the entire design was undertaken on the Ikea plant-pot stands.

    Check the facts. Enjoy the music. Don't be nervous!
    Alan A. Shaw
    Designer, owner
    Harbeth Audio UK

  13. #93
    eelekim Guest

    Default Re: Harbeth HL Compact7ES-3 specific

    Hi Alan,

    What about the effects of stand materials? Although I've never tried different stands with the same construction but with different materials like wood, metal and concrete, I've heard from those "self-appointed experts" that materials make audible effects.

    mike

  14. #94
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    Default Re: Harbeth HL Compact7ES-3 specific

    In that case you should ignore what the designer says, and listen to the experts as their advice and opinions must be of superior value.

    You will note though that I never, ever give advice that involves the needless expense of money. For me, since I became interested in hi-fi as a boy, the real kick is to get the most sound for the least expenditure and then to get on with enjoying the music. The music is supreme. As I said, the IKEA plant pot stands (about $14 each) are good enough for me to enjoy the music and to actually design the speaker. They were just the right height which is the critical thing, not the material from which the stand is made.

    As an example, the excellent Noel at Skylan sell stands made of filled plastic. They look great, they are very elegant, reasonably priced and easy to ship around the world at low freight cost. I guess that more Harbeth users globally use those stands than any other type - and we only hear praise about their sound and appearance.

    Of course - my opinion is only one of many. The difference is that I have no commercial interest in stands - or cables.
    Alan A. Shaw
    Designer, owner
    Harbeth Audio UK

  15. #95
    Join Date
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    Default Re: Harbeth HL Compact7ES-3 specific

    One of the members of the group asked me earlier for some advice on the Harbeth HP3-2ES loudspeakers, following my enthusiastic comments over the past two years.

    Let me say at once that I regard the P3 as a superb ?speaker. They astonish everyone who hears them with their weight, clarity, and musicality: and that in a large room of about 20 x 15 feet and 9 feet high, driven by a 1960s Sugden solid-state class-A amp of about 18 watts. I?ve been very happy with them since I ordered them (without hearing them first!) from Alan two years ago to replace my Martin Logan Aerius i electrostatics. They didn?t have the last bit of clarity in the mid-range of the MLs, but were much better balanced and integrated, and were much easier on the eye. I play classical music (including large choral and symphonic works) and jazz.

    I happened to have had some Spendor 3/5s on demo when they arrived. The Spendors sounded veiled, coloured and recessed compared to the P3s. I've heard nothing better in this size. But ?they don?t have RADIAL drivers and that fact kept worrying at me. Could there be something better?

    I?ve been so intrigued by Alan and others? comments on the superiority of the RADIAL driver that I have finally got (again, without hearing them first) a pair of Compact 7 ES-3s. If I thought (and still think) the P3s are good, the C-7s are in a different class. What?s the difference?

    It?s clear that the two ?speakers belong to the same family: they have the same kind of weight, the same sort of sound, the same type of clarity and musicality. But the C-7 simply offers much, much more information, and if that word is too "cold", they offer much more pleasure.

    This is especially clear on piano recordings. Pianos are very complex things: each note is accompanied by a myriad of micro-tones and overtones related to the weight of the hammer on the strings, the soundboard, the room acoustic and the pedalling. A good loudspeaker will give you an inkling of all this?a great ?speaker, like the C7, resolves these transients, reverberations, and dying acoustics not quite like the real thing, but sufficiently well to give one the strong illusion of the real thing. (I have a baby grand in my living-room, and I?ve tried to match its sound to the C-7s: there was no contest with the P3s, whereas with the C-7s it?s not a totally crazy idea, provided one plays softly. My wife, who is contemptuous of hi-fi coming anywhere close to the reproduction of live music was surprised by this near match.)

    The same is true of other instruments, but it?s not quite as obvious. One?s sense of the special acoustic of an orchestra or jazz ensemble or string quartet is immensely enhanced, as is the sense of the expression with which the instrument is played. Its interaction with other instruments, instead of being a blurred suggestion, is absolutely articulate and clear.

    All this renders the emotional impact of the music much more immediately. It also means that one can play the music at low volumes and retain that impact, rather than keep turning it up in a vain attempt to force involvement from the ?speakers. What one usually gets when one turns the volume up to hear harmonics, timbre and space is usually a hardening, not a broadening or deepening, of the sound; and this hardness gets worse as one desperately tries to get more out of the system by turning up the volume even further. With the C-7s this doesn?t happen. They are absolutely satisfying speakers.

    Presumably, what I?m finally hearing is the RADIAL difference, which is radical. It's also utterly enchanting. Now I'm imagining what a RADIAL P3 would be like?

    BTW: in relation to the discussion of stands for the C7s, I've been trying out different things, precisely to achieve the right height that Alan mentions in his post. I can confirm absolutely what he says (but if you don't believe him, why should you believe me?) I started off on with some metal stands: too high. Then some sturdy coffee tables: too low. So in desperation I put a volume of my Shorter Oxford Dictionary under each 'speaker to raise them about 4", thinking that a book would be absolutely the worst thing to use.

    Guess what? They improved with the extra height and the books don't seem to have detracted in any way from the performance. So I'd believe Alan when he says you could use a pile of books if you want to. Perhaps we should all stop reading Hi-Fi magazines and start listening.

    David

  16. #96
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    Default Re: Harbeth HL Compact7ES-3 specific

    Quote Originally Posted by David Schalkwyk View Post
    .... Perhaps we should all stop reading Hi-Fi magazines and start listening.
    David
    Agree completely!

    Lately I've been guilty of doing more Hi-Fi reading than music listening. And I got it in my head that I wanted to trade my C7-ES2 for a non-Harbeth speaker. Had the deal all setup. Then I decided to listen to my Harbeth's for one last time. Listened to a couple of favorite CD's... And you know what? I couldn't bring myself to do it. I've decided that even though I will most likely buy different speakers one day, I will always keep a pair of Harbeths as well.

    Now, I wonder if I should upgrade to the new ES3... hmmm

  17. #97
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    Default Harbeth versus a more intense (high-Q) sound ...

    One thing to be very much aware of is that the 'Harbeth sound' is very easy-on-the-ears. Technically, I'd describe it as 'low-Q' or 'low intensity' - a curtain that hangs in space, and is very unique. Almost every other loudspeaker I've heard over the years is more 'exciting', more intense and as a result very fatiguing. I've covered my experiences here.

    --------------------

    I've been trying to think of a way of explaining 'coloration', intensity and the consequent fatigue. In the supermarket I had an idea .... You know that you can self-select donuts or fresh fruit into those very thin (and sometimes difficult to open) polythene plastic bags that you tear off from a roll? When I get home I can't resist trapping the air inside the empty bag and then bursting it - you get a nice soft pop. Clearly an impulsive sound, but with a low-Q, just like the Harbeth sound . Now, conversely, trap the air in a crisp packet and burst it and you get a high-Q explosive sound. Same volume of air. Same hand clap energy to burst it, but an unmistakeably harder sound.

    Remember when your children were small how you'd invite their friends round for a party? Remember how fatiguing it was when they were all whooping and shouting, just having fun? Those young voices also have a high-Q, both high pitch and intense, attention demanding (thanks to evolution). Imagine them discovering the fun that can be had from bursting plastic bags. Can you hear in your mind the cocopheny of sound of ten crisp packets being popped versus ten polythene bags? I know which I'd rather let them loose with!
    Alan A. Shaw
    Designer, owner
    Harbeth Audio UK

  18. #98
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    Default Re: Harbeth versus a more intense (high-Q) sound ...

    Remember? I'm still living it now with a 2 and a 5 year old daughter!

    My 2 year old can pop my ears with her screams of laughter,

    I really ike your analogy though.

  19. #99
    Join Date
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    Default Re: Harbeth HL Compact7ES-3 specific

    David,
    A very informative account of your experience. Having heard and loved the P3, I'm struggling with the purchase decision between P3 and C7. I haven't yet been able to hear the C7, and may not have the chance before selection. Your post sets out the considerations nicely, thanks.

    -Paul-

  20. #100
    kmchow98 Guest

    Default Re: Harbeth HL Compact7ES-3 specific

    Perhaps Alan can help me out.

    I don't have to opportunity to demo a C7ES3 at home. A rather lively room, marble floor with carpet, curtains, cushions etc.. The room is 13.5x17.5 ft and I intend to place the long wall. My problem is that the speakers need to be close to the wall and I know that increases the bass and messes up the midrange.

    I worry that it will get worse because I sometimes play loud (bass boom?). So I would like to know what is the minimum acceptable distance before the midrange and bass starts screwing up..... is 8-10inches OK?

    It is a lot of money to pay, so I want to be careful. It will be driven by a Nait 5i.

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