Adjusting Room sound using material damping methods (not DSP)

[John Parkyn]

Hello Tobes:

Please tell us how you added that little footer ("System Details") to your post.

Thanks,

John

[tobes]

John,
If you go into the 'User CP' then 'Edit Signature', you can add some signature line to the end of your posts.
I used the 'Insert Link' feature to link to my system web page.
Cheers, Paul

[John Parkyn]

Tobes:

Thank you for that. I'll give it a whirl.

[Thanos]

Hi Everybody,

My VU meters of a humble McIntosh MA 6500 (integrated at 120wrms/8ohms) simply won't go further than 20watts/4ohms or 10 watts/8ohms, playing so loud that you can't talk with your friends in the room...

So, I have to challenge -very friendly indeed- all the watt maniacs to commend... Alan Shaw perfectly knows why I always insist that power isn't such an issue, I mean in terms of quantity.

And, if I'm not an educated engineer or charismatic audiophile to say something really important, even Paul Klipsch himself used to say that 5 good watts will do the job.

Shall we get busy with the speakers themselves, or shall we get talking about amps? Nevertheless, Alan made these marvels to sing, not to behave like English old fashioned ladies that didn't find a husband (=amplifier) because all males didn't have "the exactly specified qualities"...

Cheers,
Thanos

[A.S.]

... because all males didn't have "the exactly specified qualities"...Cheers,
Thanos

As I mentioned in the old Smartgroup, a Watt is a Watt is a Watt is a Watt.

100W of power when drawn by a light bulb is so much energy that you can't touch it. 100W of amplifier power is the very same amount of power delivered to the speaker's poor little voice coil. So it gets hot. And as it is glued to the plastic cone, the cone becomes hot.

Guess what? A 100W bulb will burn your hand. It will melt the speaker cone. And here are some pictures of just that effect ....

http://www.harbeth.co.uk/sales/servicingandspares/index.php (enlarge the image at the bottom of the page). Can you see how the voice coil has actually melted then punched its way through the cone?

You need far less power than you imagine to make a huge satisfying sound with your Harbeths.

{It is said that a prospective customer foolish enough to ask a Rolls Royce dealer about the horse power of a Rolls is politely told "Adequate, Sir".}

[Frihed89]

Ouch. I heard it from at least one person who i ordinarily trust. I have played the HLP-3 and the Compact-7 on my 50 W SS amp, without any difficulties, but avoided the HL-5 based on that advice.

Unfortunately, before I could make up my mind my hearing disease progressed to my inner right ear about 2 months after my operation and I am now 10 dB down comapred to m left ear. So all speaker decisions are again on hold. Maybe, it's fortunate. Maybe I should audition the HL-5 after all (if they have it here).

[A.S.]

... at least one person who i ordinarily trust. I have played the HLP-3 and the Compact-7 on my 50 W SS amp, without any difficulties, but avoided the HL-5 based on that advice.

This question is fully covered on another thread here.

http://www.harbeth.co.uk/usergroup/s...7&postcount=40

At heart, the M30, C7 and SHL5 have virtually identical sensitivity and electrical load. They are so similar that if, say, the left speaker was, say M30 and the right speaker, say, SHL5 you probably wouldn't notice the difference unless you were listening most carefully.

So that puts the lie to the business of 'difficult to drive' in my book.

[David Schalkwyk]

I've always been of the school that believes that speaker placement is a pretty rough and ready process. Put the speakers where you think they should be in accordance with the manufacturer's specifications; move them around a bit while listening; and then leave them. Well, I came across a discussion on AudioAsylum the other day in which one poster gives a very specific set of directions for coupling the 'speakers to your room. Being very prone to work avoidance at the moment, I thought, "why not?" (Despite the fact that I have granite stands, which weigh a ton!) The difference has been quite amazing. Whereas I thought the HLP3s were wonderful before, they are now absolutely stunning. Bass, sound stage, musicality, involvement have all improved substantially. The web address is below. Try it, as they say, I'm sure you'll like it.

Regards

David

http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/vin...es/501512.html

[lasseolsson]

A really fatal mistake is to place the speakers so they have bass dips and then try to fill in the dips with eq. Sucks massive amount of power from the amplification.

[adinoto]

Hi,
My listening space is very limited, its one end of L shape living room, size 2.8m X 3.2m. The problem is I cant place the speaker well into room, only about 20-30cm.
Currently I'm using HLP3ES, but considering upgrade to Compact 7.

Would that plcement work for Compact 7?

Regards
Adinoto

[A.S.]

Hi,
My listening space is very limited, size 2.8m X 3.2m. The problem is I cant place the speaker well into room, only about 20-30cm. Currently I'm using HLP3ES, but considering upgrade to Compact 7

Hello - well as luck would have it I have a pair of C7ES-2 at home at the moment, and my listening space is not much bigger than yours (I will confirm the size later). I've been listening to and measuring the C7 (and others) and am obliged to break my own recommendation of wall proximity - the C7's are much closer than I thought would be acceptable. They sound and measure flat - great actually. Would a picture of my setup be of interest?

[Don Leman]

It most definitely would to me.

[adinoto]

That good news,
How close we talking about?
And yes your diagram/picture of listening space would be useful

Regards

[David Schalkwyk]

That good news,
How close we talking about?
And yes your diagram/picture of listening space would be useful

Regards

If it's any help, I have tried my HP3s at various distances to the wall, and I think they're best about 18" from the back wall (and about 10' from the side walls). That way bass goes much lower than one has any right to expect from such tiny drivers (I can't imagine wanting any more), and the 'speakers themselves simply disappear, with a huge soundstage (way beyond the 'speakers' edges), pin-point imaging, and that peculiar, non-intrusive presence that I have not heard from anything else, including "hi-fi" "Class-A recommended" 'speakers costing much, much more. I know that Alan has a very soft spot for the C7s, which I haven't heard. But don't underestimate these little boxes. They're amazing!

David

[airdavid]

Hello - well as luck would have it I have a pair of C7ES-2 at home at the moment, and my listening space is not much bigger than yours (I will confirm the size later). I've been listening to and measuring the C7 (and others) and am obliged to break my own recommendation of wall proximity - the C7's are much closer than I thought would be acceptable. They sound and measure flat - great actually. Would a picture of my setup be of interest?

looking forward to seeing your setup picture, Alan...

David

[A.S.]

Here is one of the C7ES2 at home. As you can see, it's really quite close to the rear wall. Not perhaps theoretically ideal, but it works OK (in the bass).

[airdavid]

Here is one of the C7ES2 at home. As you can see, it's really quite close to the rear wall. Not perhaps theoretically ideal, but it works OK (in the bass).

thank you, Alan
without grilles ?

David
p.s.
I sent P.M. to you

[A.S.]

Grilles off so that you can clearly see that it is a C7ES2 and not an M30 or SHL5 - there is quite a bit of optical distortion which distorts the perspective.

[airdavid]

Grilles off so that you can clearly see that it is a C7ES2 and not an M30 or SHL5 - there is quite a bit of optical distortion which distorts the perspective.

Thank you Alan !
David

[Don Leman]

As an open reel fan I'd be interested in comments about your deck. Ferrograph?