22-03-2011, 03:19 PM
My Listening room
Here is my setup!
Restored Eico HF-81 integrated amp
Audio Aero Prima CDP
MFA Magus Pre-amp
DIY Lenco TT
22-03-2011, 04:23 PM
Wow very nice setup Kukakunga. Thanks for sharing.
23-03-2011, 01:04 AM
Thanks for sharing. You have a beautiful listening room. The treatment is impressive.
Would you be able to say what made the biggest sound improvement, treatment wise eg. was it the rear/ front diffusers, ceiling/ brick absorption. At what point did you decide it was sufficient?
23-03-2011, 06:49 AM
How long is your speaker cable?
My advice better use longer interconnect cable instead of speaker cable.
23-03-2011, 01:44 PM
It's not always the case that long incons sound better than long speaker cable. It depends on the cables in question and the pre-amps ability to drive long runs of cable. Many pres are not happy with more than 2-3 mtrs and will affect the sound quite significantly.
As always, listen before spending a load of money.
24-03-2011, 12:45 AM
24-03-2011, 03:36 PM
Nice setup and thanks for sharing. BTW what's that on the ceiling? What I can see there's stacks of uncovered (exposed) rock wool. If my guess is correct, please cover those rock wools.
Those loose fibre will be all over your room (airborne). It's not healthy and long exposure could cause respiratory problems.
24-03-2011, 05:49 PM
Thanks Guys for your comments and concerns.
Re: Speaker cable: I use Supra Ply 3.4s, this is a low resistance, sheilded, tinned copper cable. http://www.jenving.se/?p=ply The length is unequal, one is around 18ft and the other is around 24ft. From what I've read, I am not very concerned with the length or the fact they are of different lengths, I've found no conclusive evidence indicating that this cable design will present any adverse effects. They are very reasonably priced at around $15/meter, the tinning prevents oxidation...which I really like, and they are very easy to work with. Long interconnects are not an issue since I've moved my rig off to the side, interconnects that long would be very pricey. I use an Eico HF81 integrated amp presently so pre-power is not an issue, I have numerous sources going into the amp so it has to stay close to the sources.
Re:Danger!: I do intend to have everything covered to prevent any fiber release, I am still in the testing stage with my treatment......well, not changing much now...so soon I will seal everything up. I found some good info regarding the uses of these mineral fibres in acoustic applications and the good news is that Rockwool is safe. http://www.gearslutz.com/board/bass-...rs-review.html
Re: Acoustics Treatment: I first made a set of two broadband panels 2 years ago, those are the ones on either side of the TV. The effects were obvious with just those two, they did kill some of the room and prevented the speakers from refecting much from that wall, inherent in the design the SHL5 throws a fair bit from it's cabinet walls so this was considered. Standing next to one of these panels is interesting...it's like a black hole for sound...and you "hear" it....or not...lol.
Recently I decided to complete the plans for more broadband absorption and also implement bass traps into the corners, you can see the large black fabric in the corner, this is a "superchunks" floor to ceiling bass trap made of triangles of Rockwool stacked up. The addition of the bass traps and rear panels happened around the same time, the biggest improvement overall was the bass trapping. There is a tipping point in treatment where you end up with adequate broadband absorption and bass needs to be tackled less you end up with a dull, lifeless, bloated sounding room. The bass traps need be factored into the HF absorption in that they have very large surface area, they are not in zones of high direct SPL's but still take a lot of energy out of the room. So, it doesn't look like a lot of absorption overall but it is placed in areas of high energy first reflection points, ceiling and wall behind chair especially, the idea being to suck it up there before it has a chance to bounce more. The bass traps bring it all together, everything snaps into focus and you suddenly find your Harbeth and 14watt Eico capable of incredibly tight bass extending down where you never imagined it could. The detail and ability to hear complex bass parts from multiple instruments and actually having a very distinct bass "image" surprised me a lot. That clarity down low also allows everything above to have it's own space without ever getting muddied or stepped on. And of course with all the HF absorption there is great low-level detail and the timing that comes from the lack of smear created in the room's reflective feild. The SHL5's are sometimes seen as speakers that create more of a tonal landscape and not so much precise imaging, not now, the image has incredible depth, width, and scarry sounding presence in the way performers appear on the stage, the tonal strengths of the speaker along side sometimes make it seem like the ghost of long dead singers has arrived and is floating 15ft behind your wall.
The ceiling panel had a very specific impact on the upper mid-range in that I had always had a bit of peaky bahaviour, especially up around 2 octaves above middle c...somewhere around 1000Hz, this was partly due to the ceiling reflections and also partly due to having a large, soft, leather sofa as my listening spot. The sofa caused a surprising amount of shift around the mids, especially if you head was leaning at all into the back of it. With the sofa moved and the panel installed things are much better. My wife was pissed of course and questioned my need to move the sofa, so one day we moved it back and I had her listen a number of times....moving the sofa each time.....and it was pretty obvious to her that the sofa was very bad, so she conceded even though we lost a nice comfy place to watch TV in the process. BTW, yes the ceiling panel is basically a wood frame with thin fabric I had in the stairwell......then one day....light bulb moment, and another way to anger my wife. I just stacked Rockwool on top of it, it was ideal because the frame did allow for some reflection and dispersion rather than totally absorbing, I didn't want to overdo it with too much damping.
Speaking of which.....after I had installed the bass traps, ceiling panels, and everything was mounted I was confronted with some doubts. The room felt heavy on my ears, not natural, but at the same time was amazing when I listened to music at moderate volume. It was also cool how intelligable conversation from across the room was, it sounded half as loud but was twice as easy to understand! Same with my TV, the thing was imaging like a champ! Again....my wife's reaction was to demand I take it all down and that it was freaking out her brain....and right she was, we were not used to how it sounded. Within two-three days of listening a lot I soon became acclimatized and didn't notice it much any more, my wife took a bit longer but now when we walk into the room there is nothing odd about it at all, it does take some time and I suggest to anyone doing treatment to give adequate time for your brain to adjust, I've seen too many folks give up after either putting too much treatment up or not waiting long enough before making changes, be patient, methodical, and know why you are doing any particular thing, at least in theory.
One more observation about the sound now, I used to listen at low levels, late at night, and the presentation was quite nice, with the treatment in place that is no longer the case. The levels I was at before sound distant, disconnected, and small. When you make part of the room dissapear you also have to realize that you've taken what used to be a mixed ambient sound feild, room reverb+reverb in recording, and removed a good portion of it. You are left with the sound of the room the recording was made in, and to me, that's the goal right! So, a bit more volume, not that much really, is necessary to bring the detail on the recording up to a level that convinces your brain that you are in THAT space and the information is adequate that your brain has no issue with it. When that happens, at moderate, confortable, volume, you really feel you are there and you really here detail....I now know what detail is in a much more significant sense. I also know that when I hear folks talk about detail, and I see bare walls and hardwood floors, there is no possible way to have detail under those circumstances, no matter how expensive the gear....and it's a shame because I see so many pictures of super expensive systems set up in terrible rooms, and I can hear in my mind how much smearing there is and how much bass bloat there is no matter what those 8 x 12 inch driver inspire visually.
25-03-2011, 12:29 AM
New stand for M40.1
DIY project copy design from Skylan stand.
25-03-2011, 12:52 AM
reg. room treatment, its probably the most fascinating, practical and useful post ive read here all year, or make that ever, as far as getting good sound is concerned.
25-03-2011, 01:10 AM
25-03-2011, 02:29 AM
Thank's GanCK because no Skylan dealer in my country so I build myself stand for the king
Originally Posted by Gan CK
25-03-2011, 02:22 PM
Thanks kittykat, very kind words,
A couple more things I thought I'd mention. The pseudo-diffusor in back of my listening position is more for looks than as an actual mathematically designed element. A real skyline diffusor has specific depths and arrangments for each "block', this was an experiment just for fun and it likely has limited effectiveness. In general, diffusion of any type, QRD, Skyline, or Poly, needs more space from the listener. I may attempt to build a couple of polycylindrical diffusors to place on either side of my absorbers in back of my chair, not so much that I need them but I would like to try a build and since they will not absorb any more they can only improve the overall room response. They would be positioned on the wall not far off axis so would be diffusing at a good first reflection point.
I also plan to put a half "superchunk" trap behind my rack in that corner, I did an experiment with adding one of my OC703 panels to that corner and made comparisons in my vinyl playback with and without the panel acting as a bass trap across the corner. The concern was that my turntable was close enough to the corner to be effected by bass buildup, as you can see I have placed the TT as far out on the rack from the corner as possible but did notice quite a difference with the panel, there was less mud to a great degree. So, I will built the bass trap and possibly have one panel across the brick to prevent reflection across the range from that wall to the rack. As you can see my rack is an ikea butcher block affair, it is sturdy and with a 100lb marble slab on top plus my 100lb Lenco TT it has quite a bit of mass keeping it stable, that's not to say that it does not have some resonant frequencies that could be diminished from adding some obsorption behind it....just in case.
25-03-2011, 03:05 PM
FYI, I have copy and pasted the parts of this discussion, including the questions and concerns, over to the acoustics discussion so that it can be of benefit there.
26-03-2011, 03:45 PM
A few guys from the Philippines just got their Harbeths, me included, just this week. . .
Here's my setup straight out of the box: My HARHAR (Harman HK990 and Harbeth Compact 7 system. . . :-)
26-03-2011, 05:27 PM
Beautiful...someday when my ship comes in I'll have a pair of those Compact 7's!
27-03-2011, 10:28 AM
My new M40.1
They sound wonderful in my living room.
28-03-2011, 12:56 AM
Nice and simple system Mr Hagto
28-03-2011, 09:04 AM
Very nice, intimate & cosy indeed!
28-03-2011, 10:31 AM
Thanks for sharing mate.
Looks bloody beaut.
Tags for this Thread