Speaker Finishes

[A.S.]

There are tremendius variations in veneer and there is no such thing as a 'perfect veneer'. What you or I may consider beautiful another would not be willing to sacrifice a glass-like finish for and vice versa. We weed out cabinets we're not entirely confident about and destroy them; no cabinet maker would take back what he would consider a natural feature just because we didn't fancy it.

When looked after properly (as recommended, not in direct sunlight, no localised heat nearby) I'm not aware of any long term degradation. But, as always, you have nothing to lose by Registering your speakers and benefiting from the first owner's extended warranty if you meet the Warranty extension criteria.

One thing I'd like to add about protecting your investment: I've seen a pair recently in the home of a hesvy smoker. Ignoring the destructive effect on his lungs, the speakers tell their own shocking story from the veneer to the terminals, the domes and diaphragms. For that reason we intend to review the Warranty admissability. If you do smoke please think about this carefully.

[Sebastien]

...By the way, I don't remember any famous maestro or orchestra performer, or great music artist, having paid a fortune for exotic speakers or components... At least here in my country, where I happen to know a a lot of them...
Thanos

I know that Keith Jarrett, a close friend of mine (joking), is a proud owner of Verity Audio Parsifal Ovation speakers (serious). Those beautiful sounding speakers are proudly make in Quebec City, in the country where I live. For these, you will pay 4 times the price of a SHL5 pair... Does the sound is 4 times better? Yours to judge.

Sebastien

[Gan CK]

I know that Keith Jarrett, a close friend of mine (joking), is a proud owner of Verity Audio Parsifal Ovation speakers (serious). Those beautiful sounding speakers are proudly make in Quebec City, in the country where I live. For these, you will pay 4 times the price of a SHL5 pair... Does the sound is 4 times better? Yours to judge.

Sebastien

Oh in Singapore the Verity Pasifal Ovation costs almost 8 times more than an SHL-5.......

[keithwwk]

Owning sky-high price hifi, for some people, is a status indicator rather than music related.

[A.S.]

Setting the retail selling price is an interesting conundrum for a consumer product manufacturer - one of the most difficult business decisions that he will ever make. Too expensive and he'll kill the product at birth. Too cheap and he'll go bust. But there is a wide margin between these two ill defined extremes.

My view is simple; for the long run we have to make a profit to be here when you need us. And unusually in this industry, we do. But I positively seek to set the retail price not as high but as low as possible. The thinking here is that each speaker we sell is by far our best advert for bringing new customers, since once you've gravitated to the Harbeth sound there really is nowhere else to go: it's the final destination on your speaker journey. So we can minimise the selling price not wasting (is that the right word?) money on marketing promotion as happy customers are doing that for us free. So overall, whatever revenue we lose out on by lowering the selling price we partially or more cover by not having a sales and marketing department with the tremendous on-cost they inevitably incur.

Alan in Hong Kong

[hifi_dave]

While Alan is away in Hong Kong I can say this and hope he won't notice.

Harbeth speakers are very good value.

Several HiFi industry friends have been absolutely stunned at how good the Harbeth range sounds and how well made they are. When they find out the prices, they are amazed at how reasonable they are.

[Thanos]

While Alan is away in Hong Kong I can say this and hope he won't notice.

Harbeth speakers are very good value.

Several HiFi industry friends have been absolutely stunned at how good the Harbeth range sounds and how well made they are. When they find out the prices, they are amazed at how reasonable they are.

Right to the point... Several years ago I had the luck to discuss pricing stragedy with a friend -he is a Msc degree owner in Financial planning from the London School of Economics- who was absolutely positive as for product rotation based on keeping low profit margins. "This, he said, is a rule to keep you alive and keep on going in the market, as far as your product has a role in it, and not just be a kind of consumption's fashions... The less (but not ridiculously low) profit you make per unit, the more you live and become well established..." It makes sense, doesn't it? Especially today.
Dave, it doesn't matter wether Alan will notice (laugh) or not. We both know what an excellent and sensitive person he is, regarding the consumer society... Isn't he?
Cheers,
Thanos

[Double D]

I know that Keith Jarrett, a close friend of mine (joking), is a proud owner of Verity Audio Parsifal Ovation speakers (serious). Those beautiful sounding speakers are proudly make in Quebec City, in the country where I live. For these, you will pay 4 times the price of a SHL5 pair... Does the sound is 4 times better? Yours to judge.

Sebastien

I *was* a proud owner of Verity Parsifal Ovations...let's just say, I'm now a "prouder" owner of a pair of Harbeth Monitor 30's ..

[A.S.]

We've been experimenting for some time with offering a selection of high gloss (HG) finishes. Legally we cannot say that these are truly 'piano black' or other colours because the truly piano grade finish involves many layers of very hard coating. And that changes the sound of the thin-walled cabinet too much. So we've settled on a thick PU finish which to the untrained eye looks like a 'piano finish' but still has the flexibility we associate with the Harbeth/BBC thin-wall cabinets. It's not as completely scratch resistant as a piano finish but it's still remarkably resistant and in normal use should be adequately hard wearing.

Different models look better in different colours, just as cars do. For example, the P3ESR looks great in high-gloss (HG) white; the C7ES3 in HG black; the M401 Pro in a HG gunmetal BMW-like finish and the SHL5 in a bright metallic gold and M30 a deep red cherry. Those are just a few possible combinations. Now before we get carried away with enthusiasm there are some practical matters to consider. The HG finish is, of course, sprayed onto the cabinet, not dipped. That spray has to penetrate in and around the narrow front grille-channel which it's reluctant to do. That means that the HG finishing quality around the channel is not quite as even or perfect as the rest of the cabinet because it's onto the open-grain of the base (MDF) wood. This should not be an issue because we do recommend the grille should be on at all times but it is an inescapable fact. It's a small matter but I should point this out to you in advance. We'll probably do a limited run of about 100 pairs or so to test the market more fully.

At Harbeth UK there are some physical handling issue we are examining but in theory we should be able to make a final decision on a limited run of these HG cabinets shortly if you are interested. We have floated this concept at the request of a particular UK dealer who has seen and approved the samples and now feel confident to proceed generally.

[Thanos]

Alan,

You just never rest! If a day passes and won't do research and trials and new inventions on this and that, then something's wrong, God must have slept, as we say here!

Anyway, at a second thought and look, I'll vote for the "old school" finishes. You can't imagine (actually you certainly can), how great the good old finishes match the looks and concept of the entire range... I think this somehow vintage looks outside, married with the wise top notch technology inside, is what gives Harbeth the uniqueness it has, that performs and stands out and above of any "antagonism". And, most certainly, I have fallen in love with your most delicious (IMHO) "dish" of all, which is the eucalyptus finish of course...

Any "eye catching" high gloss finish that you'll ever create and run would probably be a new "siren", yet I shall still be forever dedicated to my eucalyptus SHL5s... Couldn't be lovelier...
Cheers,
Thanos

P.S. : By the way, EUCALYPTUS is a purely ancient Greek word! It is the EFKALIPTOS- (ΕΥΚΑΛΥΠΤΟΣ in Greek) tree. EF (ΕΥ)= Good, nice, well, while KALIPTOS (ΚΑΛΥΠΤΟΣ) comes from the verb ΚΑΛΥΠΤΩ (=COVER) and means the one which is beautifully, well covered or dressed (with leaves of course). The tree that is beautifully and well covered with leaves... Isn't this very nice, poetic also?

[tozen]

While on the subject of speaker finishes.... not only do I love the eucalyptus as well (it is especially beautiful when the daylight illumines a subtle underlying pinky-orangey hue), but I like the satin-like finish that my P3ESR's have, smoother than on the cabinets of the SHL5's. That is just the way I would choose it - the larger speaker having a completely natural feel to the wood veneer, the smaller speaker a silky, smoother finish.

[PeterF]

Alan: I'm sure your answer will be "no" but let me ask: Given the importance of resonance/lossy cabinet design to Harbeth performance, could there be any perceptible sonic difference among the cabinet finishes used if the veneer was thick enough? It would not be unreasonable to speculate that since woods have different hardness levels, density and porosity there could be a sonic difference. Your post on new finishes got me thinking and as I'm contemplating another Harbeth purchase I thought I'd ask...

[A.S.]

... It would not be unreasonable to speculate that since woods have different hardness levels, density and porosity there could be a sonic difference....

Good question. I'm no expert on wood, but the veneer is only about 0.5 mm thick on top of a base material of at least 9mm. I suspect that any minute differences in the veneer material will be swamped once it is securely bonded to the base layer. It's one of those issues that I personally wouldn't worry about - I'd chose a veneer solely on its appearance and comfort in your home.

[Spindrift]

Having joined HUG only very recently, I just spotted this thread and Alan's mention of the possible HG finish options. I've already bought a new pair of wonderful Santos rosewood P3ESRs but it will be good to know about future options as far as new finishes are concerned.

Will HG finishes become available in regular production, and are there photographs of (for instance) P3's and/or C7ES3's in HG (two of my favourite Harbeth models)?

Could walnut become part of the Harbeth veneer-prorgamme?

Somehow, walnut (esp. dark walnut) feels like a perfect wood finish for classic BBC monitors (I've owned several makes of LS3/5a and Rogers monitors in walnut).