New Harbeth P3ESR

[DrewTurner]

I agree for the most part.But it seems to me, that most of the comments on this site are devoted to the larger Harbeth speakers.Perhaps due to their diminutive size, people tend to underestimate their incredible performance in comparison to the larger,.more expensive Harbeth designs.Not to mention other brands.In this regard,I hope the P3ESR's get all the praise from the HI Fi media they rightly deserve.

[hifi_dave]

If you're in the fortunate position of selling all you can make, what is the purpose of having a review ?

Why would anyone want a review anyway ? You can go out and hear the product yourself or borrow a pair to try at home. That way you will know exactly what the product is like rather than rely on a stranger's opinion. We make up our own minds about what jacket to wear, house to buy, car to drive, beer to drink, food to eat so why not decide what hi-fi to buy ?

[heiner1960]

Hi guys,

as IO am saving my bucks for a C 7 or SHL 5 I have to admit that I regard the new P 3 as the most beautiful speaker I have ever seen - and I am in this hobby for 31 years. As they are much cheaper as well they are within my financial reach very soon!

The problem: I listen a lot to Jazz from the 50s and 60s, classic, etc BUT I like Led zep, Madonna and Dr.Dre as well. I think they will not satisfy me in this genre esp. as my room is app. 400 sq.feet (36 sq.m.) and very high.

Did any body combine them with a sub woofer yet?

Would also be nice to use them for Home Theater as well!! ?The older I get the more flexible I become. 1 or 2 years ago I thought 2 channels preferable with tube amps would be the best, now I am thinking of going from 32 inches to 42. There is a lot of good stuff on DVD that I left out because I was so prejudiced towards the "new" things. Just bought Dylan at Newport and a compilation of Muddy Waters from the 60s and 70s. Cool things with exciting music.

Most people think that in this case you need to go active but some opinions on the net quote that even running the sub parallel from the speaker terminals of the amplifier make the satellites sound much better.

Any comments very welcome!


Best regards
Heiner

[A.S.]

... but some opinions on the net quote that even running the sub parallel from the speaker terminals...

Please remember that if you do run a sub "in parallel" with the satellite speakers* the power handling capability and low-frequency output of the satellites is not improved. The satellites will be working as hard as ever producing their full range, and the sub will not be relieving the satellites of their work at all - just augmenting them. So, the system's maximum bass output and maximum loudness is limited by the satellite's own capabilities, long before the subwoofer runs out of steam.

To really maximise the system's loudness and bass output by many dBs you need to steer all the low bass content of the audio signal away from the satellites and to a dedicated high-power subwoofer if listening at crazy levels is what you want to do. To do this steering you'd need some sort of filter box (probably software based these days) and all the audio would pass through the box and be frequency-band analysed an then sent to the sub or satellites. I guess this functionality is built into AV receivers?

* All this means is that the sub's input is connected somehow across the amp's speaker outputs; the so-called 'high level' connection.

[EricW]

Heiner:

Another point is this: you say you're attracted to the P3ESR in part because they're relatively inexpensive. However, a quality subwoofer system is not going to be cheap (and it would be crazy to get anything but a high quality unit to augment the P3ESRs which are so fast and clear and agile - the slow, lumpy bass of a cheap subwoofer would be a terrible mismatch).

So when you combine the cost of the two, it may be that a Compact 7 or SHL 5 is not really that much more expensive. It might be worth saving up for, if it's at all achievable for you.

[DrewTurner]

If it was not for the wonderful,informative review I read by Sam Tellig of Stereophile, regarding the Harbeth SHL5 speakers,I would never have known that Harbeth speakers even existed.If not for that "REVIEW".I would never have been compelled to drive 350 km to another city to hear Harbeth ,as their was no dealer in my area. I now own Harbeth speakers.After hearing my pair,my friend also just purchased Harbeth.This all came about because of a "REVIEW".Thank you Sam Tellig...REVIEWER.

[EricW]

If it was not for the wonderful,informative review I read by Sam Tellig of Stereophile, regarding the Harbeth SHL5 speakers,I would never have known that Harbeth speakers even existed.If not for that "REVIEW".I would never have been compelled to drive 350 km to another city to hear Harbeth ,as their was no dealer in my area. I now own Harbeth speakers.After hearing my pair,my friend also just purchased Harbeth.This all came about because of a "REVIEW".Thank you Sam Tellig...REVIEWER.

That's a fair point. Actually, come to think of it, it was probably through Sam Tellig that I became aware of Harbeths myself.

There have actually been quite a number of Harbeth reviews in various publications over the past few years, so there's no shortage of information about Harbeth as a brand if you follow the audio press, both print and online.

As for the P3ESR, I expect there'll be reviews eventually. But now might not be the ideal time. If Harbeth is running at 100% production capacity for these speakers, and they have an order book that will take months to fulfill, what's a review going to accomplish for them except to create more demand that can't be satisfied in a reasonable time frame?

I'm sure we'll see reviews of the P3ESR eventually, just not yet.

[harbethpr]

...If Harbeth is running at 100% production capacity for these speakers, and they have an order book that will take months to fulfill, what's a review going to accomplish for them except to create more demand that can't be satisfied in a reasonable time frame?

Sorry I should have replied to this! Couldn't have expressed it better myself. I'm curious though; if you are satisfied with them do you want to read reviews just to reinforce your satisfaction? It's unlikely that you'll learn any more about their design or Realisation (ISO9001 speak) from a reviewer than here at the factory's User Group.

About the leadtime: please understand that this is not going to magically shorten. It is a fact of life. Our year-on-year sales are up 28%, making us (probably?) the UK's most successful speaker brand. The two longest established Harbeth distys (for more than thirty years e.g. Harbeth Japan, China) have monthly orders placed through to June 2009. That is not unusual! They know their markets! They have integrated review/distribution/marketing plans! That takes a chunk of out UK production capacity. The rest is taken first come first served by the remaining 40+ distributors. If yours is one of them then the leadtime doesn't concern you as they've anticipated your demand and ordered ahead. Smart them!

From our perspective there is nothing at all to be gained by early reviews of the P3ESR. We must not create a demand for something we cannot supply - that just stresses the dealers. It's so obviously a fabulous speaker we here don't need to be reassured. Do you really? As Alan points out Harbeth is (in his words!) "the speakers of last resort". What he means is that customers (eventually) find us having spent a fortune and wasted years trawling through many other speaker brands. They (you) find us when they are ready. We should not hurry that process along.

[kittykat]

Hi DrewTurner

Stereophiles review was great but if you read UHF magazine's (Issue 84, downloadable from their website and the harbeth review was complete) review of the SHL5's, it sounds like they were completely blown away by it. There were 3 guys who listened to it and their opinions were uniformed. They said something like it was a "candidate for the heavyweight crown" .

cheers, kitty

[harbethpr]

Can you find the link please? When you say "blown away by it" do you mean the P3ESR? That wouldn't surprise me. Nor should it you!

[Gan CK]

Here's the link to the UHF review of SHL-5. It starts from page 48. The 3 reviewers were totally gobsmacked.

http://www.uhfmag.com/Issue84/UHF84.pdf

[EricW]

Here's the link to the UHF review of SHL-5. It starts from page 48. The 3 reviewers were totally gobsmacked.

http://www.uhfmag.com/Issue84/UHF84.pdf

UHF is a Canadian magazine and I'm not sure they have that large an international profile. But they've been in business for about 25 years, and they're a very credible and serious review magazine. Read the summary in the "Crosstalk" section of the HL5 review - that says it all.

[Gan CK]

UHF is a Canadian magazine and I'm not sure they have that large an international profile. But they've been in business for about 25 years, and they're a very credible and serious review magazine. Read the summary in the "Crosstalk" section of the HL5 review - that says it all.

Yep...in Singapore, we refer these as "underground magazines". And the notion here is that these underground magazines are usually much more credible than high profile magazines.

[Paris Kotsis]

Hello everybody, I just received my P3ESR on Friday and have some nice things to report. First, this little speaker seems to have better resolution and more complete harmonic structure in the mids than my previous M40, which I think is a miracle, maybe due to Radial 2. Second, it goes loud enough for a smallish room (15-20 sq.meter) -I feel it is substantially better in this regard compared to HLP3-ES2 and, third, it is so fast and precise, it almost put to shame my alnico-based, high sensitivity wide range/SET system when driven by a Sugden Class A amp. Two things I noticed is that the speaker does not like any kind of electrical filtering in the system and prefers a wooden, medium weight stand with good solidity than an ultra heavy weight metal one-because the latter makes it sound a little dark and slow.

[hifi_dave]

IMO you definitely need a light open frame stand with any of the Harbeth range. Mass loaded always sounds fat and slow to me.

[DrewTurner]

When you say.... no electronic filtering for the P3ESR,do you mean,not plugging your amp into a power conditioner?I thought your review described this the P3ESR perfectly.I think this little speaker(GIANT KILLER) out performs many other speaker brands, 2 or 3 times larger and more expensive.I'm listening to Archie Shepp's Sax right now. The P3ESR'S are filling my medium sized room with gorgeous sound.

[Paris Kotsis]

I was referering to Ringmat Statfeet, a conductive film put under equipement, designed to absorb "bad" electromagnetic radiaton from PSUs. This thing can be good at times, especially with SET and high sensitivity speakers, but sucked life out of the system when the P3ESR was playing. I don't use conditioners as they generally restrict the abilities of a system.
IMO the biggest surprise with this little giant is that given the right stand and system, it can sound much more sensitive, open and dynamic than 83.5 dB would suggest, its "energy" nearly approaching that of big horns. But bass definition is in a class of its own and in the right position it can be quite deep, too, giving a clear hint of even the lowest notes.

[DrewTurner]

I thought your comments regarding the midrange clarity/resolution of the P3ESR in comparison with your old M40's was very astute..I had a similar experience when auditioning the SHL5's.After hearing the P3ESR, I chose the smaller speaker.For what I lost in volume of sound and bass with the larger speaker,I gained in clarity,detail,speed and musicality.The P3ESR's have a real visceral quality about them that I find ,quite thrilling.Hope I'm not offending any SHL5 owners out there.Just my personal preference.I'm sure other ears will hear things differently,as they are both wonderful speakers.

[honmanm]

In that review of the P3ES-2 and accompanying interview (http://www.avguide.com/review/tested...speaker?page=3) mention is made of a small response rise in the presence region.

To what extent is that true of the P3ESR?

[A.S.]

Why would this be a concern to you? Did anyone hear this effect in the P3ES? I use whatever tools and techniques I have available to create a holistic, involving, natural sound regardless of how the thing measures in the laboratory.