Wish list for new model Harbeth

[EricW]

While waiting for my newly-ordered pair of P3ESR to arrive, I wondered what larger model of Harbeth I would want to get someday if room size and budget allowed.

I know that the Monitor 40.1 is a wonderful speaker, but I don't forsee see the day when it won't be at least a bit of a budgetary challenge (in my wife's eyes if not in mine!). However, thinking about this led to thought of whether a smaller, three-way monitor speaker (Monitor 30.1, perhaps?) might ever be in the cards.

I'm thinking perhaps the 8" bass driver from the Super HL5 coupled with the 5" mid from the P3ESR, topped off by whatever tweeter works best in this configuration.

Would this be feasible? How might it compare to the Super HL5 in price, and in sonic character? Would the advantages of running drivers over a narrower range compensate for a more complex crossover network? I'm thinking if such a speaker could be built for not too much more than the Super HL5, it could be my ideal "next" Harbeth.

[P.C.]

I'd personally still prefer to see a Harbeth sub woofer designed specifically to mate with the c7, SH5 and monitor 30s. That would then allow all those owners of those speakers to experience the fuller range of the 40.1s without having to change speakers.

[Will]

Now that would be very interesting to me. Slot it in between the huge price gap of the SHL5 and M40.1.

Perfect for customers like me who never warmed up to the sound of the SHL5 (I must be the only one... everyone else seems to love it) but am not willing to spring for M40.1 just yet.

I'm a former C7-ES2 owner so I would prefer to step up to something better than the C7-ES3. The M30 has less bass than the C7 so although it would cost me more and have better highs, I'm not willing to sacrifice in the bass.

How about it Alan? A model M35 with an 8" radial woofer, 5" radial midrange and Seas Excel tweeter. I'm drooling already. Stand-mount would be fine.

[EricW]

I'd personally still prefer to see a Harbeth sub woofer designed specifically to mate with the c7, SH5 and monitor 30s. That would then allow all those owners of those speakers to experience the fuller range of the 40.1s without having to change speakers.

Well, sure - and while we're at it, a purpose-built subwoofer for the P3ESR would be nice too. But none of these ideas are mutually exclusive, are they - why not both? I.e., new subwoofer and a new "budget" three-way?

[Lorpuris]

Since we are dreaming how about this one : A yet unnamed speaker would have a striking resemblance to a P3 with a passive radiator mounted below the woofer. I have heard few speakers that have implemented this technology properly. Only one actually.

[keithwwk]

How about it Alan? A model M35 with an 8" radial woofer, 5" radial midrange and Seas Excel tweeter. I'm drooling already. Stand-mount would be fine.

This is my wish too...

[Taxman]

I also think that bridging the price and size gap between the SHL5 and the 40.1 would be useful, but I suppose A.S. might have his own ideas how to do so. I'd also like to see a specialty model between the C7 and the SHL5, designed from the ground up for the particular application of 2-pi against-the-rear-wall placement.

[hifi_dave]

Sonically, they do bridge the gap. The SHL5 punches well above it's weight and I've had numerous people, including Hi-Fi reps, guess they cost between £3.5K and £6K.

So, I think we should just be grateful that they are such good value and (hopefully) Alan won't read this, because the price might increase !!!

[Reinhard]

In my opinion, we find the largest size gap between the P3ESR and the bigger models.

In a lot of living rooms you cannot place a C7 or M30/M40 for optical reasons, fans of pop music however sometimes would prefer a little more than a 110mm mid/bass unit, next model is C7 with 200mm mid/bass unit but much bigger cabinet/box. I'm sure a model with let's say 140mm mid/bass unit and a bit greater than P3ESR might fit the needs of pop music lovers and often will make an external subwoofer for P3ESR redundant...

[EricW]

Sonically, they do bridge the gap. The SHL5 punches well above it's weight and I've had numerous people, including Hi-Fi reps, guess they cost between £3.5K and £6K.

Actually, in North America, they do cost within that range (especially when one considers that sales taxes are not included in the North American retail pricing).

I know this is probably an inevitable result of shipping heavy boxes a long way and having an extra layer of distribution, but as a consumer, one could nonetheless wish it weren't so. UK and European purchasers are definitely getting a bargain.

[fred40]

Sounds simple to me:

A subwoofer to support the p3esr

Dedicated LS stands

Grtz

Fred from Holland

[Sebastien]

Hi everyone,

I would be interested in a change of the "old" Radial woofer of the SHL5 to the new generation of Radial 2. I still like the design with its supertweeter but the new Radial 2 looks pretty interesting.

The option of an Harbeth subwoofer could be an idea. Years from years many people tell us they used their Harbeth with subwoofer. I still have to admit that for my taste and in my room, I have enough base with the SHL5.

Sébastien

[GregD]

Hi everyone,

I would be interested in a change of the "old" Radial woofer of the SHL5 to the new generation of Radial 2. I still like the design with its supertweeter but the new Radial 2 looks pretty interesting.

The option of an Harbeth subwoofer could be an idea. Years from years many people tell us they used their Harbeth with subwoofer. I still have to admit that for my taste and in my room, I have enough base with the SHL5.

Sébastien

I remember Alan saying the SHL5 still sells well and we know it's very popular. I suppose the skill is to judge when sales start to dip and when a replacement is most timely for release. If the SHL5 gets the 'RADIAL2 treatment' that will be the whole range done. Not sure what would happen after that.

A Harbeth subwoofer is frequently suggested, but I don't see deep bass as an authentically Harbeth trait. There are plenty of excellent subs available with comprehensive adjustability - what could Harbeth realistically hope to add to that market? Also Alan has expressed reservations about offering mains-powered products - insurance, health and safety regulations etc.

I don't like the idea of a floor-standing loudspeaker as its simply a space-saving compromise, trading small footprint for more cabinet volume but then the cabinet is coupled to the floor. I prefer a large stand-mount.

So I'm not really wanting Harbeth to release any more different products. The product range is already adequate. Probably only Alan knows what would be successful.

[garmtz]

In fact, there would be nothing special about a Harbeth subwoofer, as a subwoofer does not need the complex crossover and 'voicing' of a complete full range loudspeaker. It does not even need the radial material, as you can see from the woofer of the 40.1. I am not saying that a subwoofer is a simple thing to design, far from it! But there are lots of good subwoofers to choose from, without any 'magic' need for it to be a Harbeth subwoofer.

What constitutes a good subwoofer is a flat response with deep bas into at least 20 Hz, good variable phase control, preferably some form of eq and very low distortion and group delay.

I have said it before and will say it again: most people are simply not capable of setting up a subwoofer to integrate totally seamlessly. Remember, what Alan takes months to get right (crossing over a tweeter seamlessly to a woofer, with flat response, good off axis behaviour, etc. etc.) is not done in an hour with a subwoofer. It takes a good sub and lots of time and experience to get it right. And what most people hear when they listen to a subwoofer+speakers is simply bad setup or a subwoofer that is too cheap. No cutting corners here: a good sub needs some good engineering, preferably done by a specialist manufacturer.

[fred40]

I think Mr Shaw and his company are more then capable off producing a fine sub if they are willing to . It might not come easy and overnight though.

The argument I read in an earlieer post "Also Alan has expressed reservations about offering mains-powered products - insurance, health and safety regulations etc" makes me laugh a bit, if that is a major concern well lets convert our amplifiers and cd players and things alike into 12 volt battery operated gear!

[A.S.]

..."Also Alan has expressed reservations about offering mains-powered products - insurance, health and safety regulations etc" ...

That is indeed an accurate summary. Making active, mains powered equipment and supporting/servicing it for the long-term is a very complex, costly time consuming business that acts as a drag on the entire company. And subcontracting to China doesn't help - it merely pushes the problem around.

[fred40]

Mr Shaw,

A wrong assumption at my side, probably because off my English. |Thought you ment that you where afraid people became electrick shocks !

[Parabellum]

I would like to see a black ash finish, but that's just me.

{Moderator's comment: which model?}

[Pencey]

Actually, in North America, they do cost within that range (especially when one considers that sales taxes are not included in the North American retail pricing). I know this is probably an inevitable result of shipping heavy boxes a long way and having an extra layer of distribution, but as a consumer, one could nonetheless wish it weren't so. UK and European purchasers are definitely getting a bargain.

I suspect UK/European purchasers of certain American audio components aren't so thrilled at the prices they pay either, but it makes knowing the price difference paid no less unpleasant. I have an acquaintance living in the UK and what he paid for his new 7ES-3's vs what I paid for my new 7ES-3's in the states was a bit of an unpleasant surprise - but such are the economics of international commerce.

[A.S.]

Harbeth UK does not - cannot and must not - impose retail price control on any of our 40+ distributors. There are just too many incidental costs in bringing a product to market, some obviously expensive (air freight), some not obvious (import duties, port charges, insurance, indemnities etc.).

The system seems to self regulate.