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Thread: Stands for your Harbeths

  1. #61
    eelekim Guest

    Default Re: The Manley 'Twizzle' adjustable metal stands

    Are the adjustable stands rigid enough to hold the heavy speakers? It seems that all the stands in the photos are without spikes. Have you tried using spikes? What are the effects to the sound with and without them?

  2. #62
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    Default Re: The Manley 'Twizzle' adjustable metal stands

    Manley 'Twizzle' stands: I can not properly comment on these as we no longer have a relationship with that supplier. But, from memory, I could say that spikes or no spikes, felt or no felt, rubber or no rubber, cork or no cork none of that made the slightest difference to my ears. As you would expect though - the height of the stand makes an audible and measurable difference to what you hear at your ears at the listening sweet spot.
    Alan A. Shaw
    Designer, owner
    Harbeth Audio UK

  3. #63
    eelekim Guest

    Default Re: The Manley 'Twizzle' adjustable metal stands

    I think I know what you mean by your statement on the Twizzle stands. Regarding the spikes, I have the same feeling. I've recently removed all the spikes of my speaker stands for better height alignment of the tweeters and my ears. Although audiophiles usually prefer speaker stand or speaker itself with spikes, I don't want to go back for the sound with spikes. I don't know if the improved sound is due to the effect from the spike removal or the better height alignment though.

  4. #64
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    Default To spike or not to spike ... that is the question

    I concur with your findings that spikes are of little (or even no) importance compared with small adjustments of listing height.

    I have never really been able to understand why spikes or alternative methods of mounting Harbeth speakers ever took hold as a serious pass time. If you were here I could demonstrate to you a hundred subtle component changes to the crossover that could/would make an audible and measurable difference to the sound. But spikes etc. - hummmmm: I'm really not convinced. But what do I know? I'm only the designer!
    Alan A. Shaw
    Designer, owner
    Harbeth Audio UK

  5. #65
    Join Date
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    Default Re: To spike or not to spike ... that is the question

    Dear Alan,

    Yesterday, after a horrible day due to traffic and rain I came back and spent an hour in my L/R, listening -once more- the "midsummer night's dream" from a PHILIPS LP with an excellent recording. Philarmonia Orchestra, Ambrosian singers, Sir Neville Mariner and Arleen Auger (soprano). The aetherial and subtle passage towards the conclusion of the overture, coming out of "distant" strings, made me dreaming, closing my eyes, understanding how charismatic really was Felix Mendelssohn when he made his music on this Shakespear's play... The only thing I did not observe or consider was the way I have placed my SHL 5s on my custom stands, and the fortune I paid to isolate them from the stands' platform, or how I have isolated the stands from the hard floor with special spikes, etc. etc...

    Does anybody have to become fifty years old to (once more) realize that these boxes were designed to pass the musical magic to us without that damned "Audiophilia Nervosa", puting aside the endless "improvements" and concetrating to the essence? Harbeths reproduce music. That is F e e l i n g!

    Really Good Job Mr Shaw! Carry on, with our good wishes and deep appreciation! I have my SHL5s since 2005. I'm happy with them. I don't have exotic separates. I buy music, not devices with the extra money I earn. I adore music. And everything that honestly serves it, without marketing tricks...

    Cheers from Athens,
    Thanos

  6. #66
    jttlee Guest

    Default Which model of Skylan stands should be used with C7ES3?

    Could anyone advise the suitable model of Skylan stand for C7ES3 (2-post or 4-post or it really doesn't matter)? I sent several emails to Skylan but did not receive any replies yet.

    Must I call direct for ordering? Thanks.

    Regards,
    John

  7. #67
    Hu Guest

    Default Re: Which model of Skylan stands should be used with C7ES3?

    Quote Originally Posted by jttlee
    Could anyone advise the suitable model of Skylan stand for C7ES3 (2-post or 4-post or it really doesn't matter)? I sent several emails to Skylan but did not receive any replies yet.

    Must I call direct for ordering? Thanks.

    Regards,
    John
    I sent several emails to Skylan too, no reply, do not know why.

    Hu

  8. #68
    Join Date
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    Default Re: Which model of Skylan stands should be used with C7ES3?

    I've gotten to know Noel a bit over the past few months, responding to email is not his strength, but if you call he usually always answers the phone and is very friendly and enthusiastic. I use the 4 post stand for my C7, I feel it looks more substantial than the 2 post. If you tell Noel it is for the C7 he obviously knows the platform dimensions but will ask which height you want.

  9. #69
    jttlee Guest

    Default Re: Which model of Skylan stands should be used with C7ES3?

    Quote Originally Posted by vaughn3d
    I've gotten to know Noel a bit over the past few months, responding to email is not his strength, but if you call he usually always answers the phone and is very friendly and enthusiastic. I use the 4 post stand for my C7, I feel it looks more substantial than the 2 post. If you tell Noel it is for the C7 he obviously knows the platform dimensions but will ask which height you want.
    Hi vaughn3d,

    Thanks for your information. By the way, I received an email reply from Noel yesterday. The 14-hour time difference between Hong Kong and Calgary makes it quite difficult to talk through phone. But since he prefers the phone to email, I will give him a call tonight to sort out the details then.

    Regards,
    John

  10. #70
    Hu Guest

    Default Re: Which model of Skylan stands should be used with C7ES3?

    Quote Originally Posted by jttlee
    Hi vaughn3d,

    Thanks for your information. By the way, I received an email reply from Noel yesterday. The 14-hour time difference between Hong Kong and Calgary makes it quite difficult to talk through phone. But since he prefers the phone to email, I will give him a call tonight to sort out the details then.

    Regards,
    John
    Hello John,

    Please ask him if we have to put the sand when we use Skylan stands, and what sort of sand. Are there any silver sand on sale in HK?

    Thanks!

    Regard,

    Hu

  11. #71
    jttlee Guest

    Default Re: Which model of Skylan stands should be used with C7ES3?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hu
    Hello John,

    Please ask him if we have to put the sand when we use Skylan stands, and what sort of sand. Are there any silver sand on sale in HK?

    Thanks!

    Regard,

    Hu
    Hello Hu,

    I just talked to Noel on the phone right now. He asked me to tell you that he is sorry for not being able to promptly reply to email because he is now on his own and is extremely busy these few months. He will gradually catch up with the email backlog in the days to come.

    Based on Noel's reply for C7, he mentioned that the posts should be filled with fine sand to about 75%. I confirmed with him over the phone that this is intended in the stand design.

    I haven't asked specifically on the type of sand to be used. Maybe some Harbeth users can offer advice on this. Sorry that I don't know whether there is silver sand for sale in Hong Kong.

    As vaughn3d mentioned, it is best to call Noel to discuss because he does not have a lot of spare time to answer email recently. By the way, Noel is currently running about 2.5 weeks lead time. So it probably takes about 1 month time for delivery.

    Regards,
    John

  12. #72
    Hu Guest

    Default Re: Which model of Skylan stands should be used with C7ES3?

    Hello John,

    Thank you very much for help! I would order Skylan stands for my M30, but really do not know what sort of good sand I could find here. When you get your Skylan stands, please tell me what sand you put into.

    Regards,

    Hu

    Quote Originally Posted by jttlee
    Hello Hu,

    I just talked to Noel on the phone right now. He asked me to tell you that he is sorry for not being able to promptly reply to email because he is now on his own and is extremely busy these few months. He will gradually catch up with the email backlog in the days to come.

    Based on Noel's reply for C7, he mentioned that the posts should be filled with fine sand to about 75%. I confirmed with him over the phone that this is intended in the stand design.

    I haven't asked specifically on the type of sand to be used. Maybe some Harbeth users can offer advice on this. Sorry that I don't know whether there is silver sand for sale in Hong Kong.

    As vaughn3d mentioned, it is best to call Noel to discuss because he does not have a lot of spare time to answer email recently. By the way, Noel is currently running about 2.5 weeks lead time. So it probably takes about 1 month time for delivery.

    Regards,
    John

  13. #73
    NIKOS MAMASSOULAS Guest

    Default Re: Stand height and stand construction

    Quote Originally Posted by A.S.
    I agree on both counts. I think that, as a general rule of thumb, most if not all speakers will sound better the taller the stand.

    The problem is practicality (stability, cosmetics, children) versus acoustics, and faced with that situation, most listeners obviously opt for shorter stands.

    Yes I completely agree about 'lossy speakers, ?? lossy stands'. I have read some fine arguements for/against but I can't myself see the necessary correlation. What matters is not the quasi-theory devoid of any scientific analysis but what suits you, in your room on your budget with your domestic considerations.
    Six months ago I bought Compact 7ES-3. The set up was Musical Fidelity A3.5 amp(125 w/ch), Musical Fidelity A.5 cdp with Atacama stands 16 inches filled with sand. My room is about 40sqrm. The sound was fantastic and harbeth performed better than any other speaker ever tried in my room (some of them costed more than twice harbeth's price). Recently I have upgrated to Musical Fidelity A1008 amp (250W, external power supply, tube pre amp stage) and the sound in terms of clarity, smoothness, detail and soundstage was dramaticaly improved.
    But the more bodier sound of the new amplifier caused me a problem. The extra bass seems not to be tight and lucks control. Having adequate distance from side and rear walls I suspect that the main source of problem is the small hight of stands (16 inches).
    Do you think a taller and better quality stand (eg. SKYLAN 20 inch) will solve the above mentioned problem?
    I will appreciate everyone's feedback and espesially yours Alan.

    Best regards from Greece.

  14. #74
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    Default Re: Stands for your Harbeths

    I don't know, spikes or no spikes, heavy or light, wood or metal - really takes me back in time...

    My own ten pence worth from the UK... Edited in view of Alans Comments below.

    Spikes work well coupling a speaker stand to the floor when floor-boards and a thick carpet with underlay is involved, otherwise the speaker and stand will rock about. On many speakers I've owned over the years, this tended to rob percussive (rock and jazz at sensible levels) music of a little impact, slurring the sound a little to my ears. This will vary from speaker to speaker, but I still prefer to use spikes on well carpeted wooden floors. Solid wood and concrete floors may obviously need a different and simpler approach.

    I grew to dislike spiking speakers to stands, mainly because of the horrendous damage the spikes cause to the underside of the speakers, especially to demonstration ones that had to be sold on to rotate stock. I still use some small clear stick on feet from RS components (stock number 223-837) and they've served me well for twenty years plus...

    As for stands themselves, I personally found that the Something Solid XF stands, using little carbon loaded pads to locate the speaker and custom made for size and height to suit different makes and models, worked exceptionally well with different models of Harbeths.

    To comment on the post above regarding amplifier choice, I have very much affection for Quad (but couldn't get on with the 34/306, despite this combination sounding stunning on the P3's when Alan demonstrated them to me all those uears ago). Nothing wrong with Quad amps if they're in fine fettle and driving an easy load like any Harbeth model...

  15. #75
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    Default Re: Stands for your Harbeths

    Useful comments David but please - to make it clear - the Compact 7 you refer to was the original model of 1995 or thereabouts when we last met. Since then the C7ES, ES2 and last year the ES3 which are all subtly different and (in the case of the ES3) re-tuned in the bass. Certainly the ES3 has not drawn any comments that I am aware of about stand-bass-room-interface.
    Alan A. Shaw
    Designer, owner
    Harbeth Audio UK

  16. #76
    Join Date
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    Default Re: Stands for your Harbeths

    Quote Originally Posted by A.S.
    Useful comments David but please - to make it clear - the Compact 7 you refer to was the original model of 1995 or thereabouts when we last met. Since then the C7ES, ES2 and last year the ES3 which are all subtly different and (in the case of the ES3) re-tuned in the bass. Certainly the ES3 has not drawn any comments that I am aware of about stand-bass-room-interface.
    I stand corrected and updated! Many thanks. I last heard Compact 7's in 2000, not sure of the model vintage..

    I should add that my ancient but lovely HL5's in the same Northamptonshire dem-room behaved rather differently, but these again have been developed much further in recent years to their benefit.

    I promise to bear my time lag very carefully in consideration of future posts (smile).

  17. #77
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    Default Re: Stands for your Harbeths

    Hi all,

    When seated, the height from the floor to my ear is about 36 inches.

    1) What is the ideal speaker stand height for S HL5?

    2) When seated the super tweeter or the main tweeter should be leveled with the ears?

    Thanks

  18. #78
    Join Date
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    Singapore
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    Default Re: Stands for your Harbeths

    Quote Originally Posted by Jmohd
    Hi all,

    When seated, the height from the floor to my ear is about 36 inches.

    1) What is the ideal speaker stand height for S HL5?

    2) When seated the super tweeter or the main tweeter should be leveled with the ears?

    Thanks
    The ideal height is achieved when the main tweeter is at ear level when seated. Keep them away from all walls, especially side walls. Place them as far apart as you can. Personally, i also prefer to toe them in so that when you are seated, you only see a bit of the inner sides from either spks. This arrangement ensures superb stereo spread & imaging.

  19. #79
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    Default Toe-in and stands for your Harbeths

    Just to clarify that there are no hard and fast rules about toe-in. What toe-in does is alters the mid frequencies/high frequencies ratio slightly, so that the extreme top is slightly lifted. But this is only a very small amount and some folk may or may not prefer it: it entirely depends upon your room (especially the side walls), your taste, your hearing!, your equipment and the recordings themselves.

    In other words, what may be ideal for you many not suit me and vice versa. So don't be too concerned to clone other successful set-ups in your room. You must try for yourself. That said, it is always very helpful to discover what works well for other users - or especially what doesn't work so well.

    As for distance apart between the speakers laterally, some folk like them wide apart, some closer together. Again, so much depends upon taste. "Do what ever sounds best to you, in your room, with your equipment and music." And most of all, do it within your budget. Do not become afraid of your stands!

    "Enjoy the music!
    Alan A. Shaw
    Designer, owner
    Harbeth Audio UK

  20. #80
    NikPer Guest

    Default Stands for SHL-5s? Mission accomplished

    This is the SKYLAN 18" 4-post stand, especially made for the Harbeth SHL-5. Simply great stands, I am very happy with my choice and a big improvement over the metal ones i've had on loan for the past year. Plus Nolan is a great guy to do business with.

    Cheers,

    Nikolas

    Last edited by NikPer; 22-02-2008 at 10:11 PM. Reason: text editing

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