Cables for your Harbeths (general, not specific Harbeth models)

[Thanos]

I tried the following (diy):
1) twisted copper wire(2-4 single 24ga from cat5 cable)====bright
2) twisted silver plated wire(2-4 single 26ga )======bright
3) twisted pure silver wire(2x 28ga )=======better
4) single 28ga pure silver wire=======a lot better,but still bright on some of my recordings.

I am still trying to get the best possible combination.

Hi Friends, some help please!

Ok with provided jumpers, but anyone to comment on bi-wiring, I mean to have any experience with it?
I use Kimbers 8TC (two pairs of 3m each), having removed jumpers but I don't have -at my age- that good an ear to get the difference from changing to mono-wire set of 8TC (length of 2m. each) that I have as spares, and tried them with jumpers on, of course.
Is there any kind of listening difference or crossover behaviour between this two modes? Any comment/experience very helpful
Thanks,
Thanos

[Thanos]

Hi Thanos,
Thanks for repying are you saying that it is no difference from Nordost Red Dawn and Monsters Cable at the same price range? Is the treble note clear? How is bass note for the Kimber 8TC? Are you still using them?

Thanks for your help.

Cheers.

Hi Soundbyte, sorry for delay in reply.
The Red dawns came a little "thin" in bass Vs the 8TCs. Still came a bit more coherent in mono-wire Vs Kimbers bi-wired as to the overall presence and especially in mids & highs. With 8TC mono-wired, both sounded very close. But to terminate/ change lengths to Nordosts is an even worse nightmare than to do the same with Kimbers (also a pain in the ass). The Monsters (M1 -I don't have them anymore in main system-see below), were good- no weaknesses overall- but when I critically listened to 8TC, I found a very big soundstage with bass to die for, and without cloud covering the mids-highs. That's why I use it. I estimate that single-wire with WBT careful termination (bananas on both sides), no more than about 2m. each side, will give you standard fine results. Don't forget that 8TCs are excellent values for money and fine allrounders -especially if you change your amps- sources, whenever. Of course, If you want to pay less, go for a Monster low price M series speaker cable and combine with Interlink 400 inteconnects. You won't regret... I use this combo to my 2nd system -vacation house- and is really good. Changed 3 different systems with various componenets, the Monsters were always very good with all. Currently working with Luxman 2 X 75wrms transistor integrated, Philips CD 750, TEAC cassette deck, Sony tuner, Technics 1200 turntable and B&W P6 speakers. Some say that this humble system sometimes makes my main expensive system (Harbeths+McIntosh+Meridian+Nakamichi+Techniks gold 1200/Shure v-15) to win ok, but with sweat and tears...
Hope I gave a little help,
Regards,
Thanos

[wlmdx]

I never try bi-wiring with the Compact 7 but I did tried with my previous speakers that I sold(polk lsi15) before the Compact 7. I liked it better(sound smoother) without bi-wiring that's why I hesitate to try it on my Harbeth.

[ACF]

Hi,
Anyone replace their brass jumpers that came with the Harbeth? What do you replace with?

Replaced the brass jumpers in the SHL5's with KIMBER Select KS-9033 Jumper cable and am using Kimber Monocle XL speaker cable with spades. Everything sounds just great.

[J.A. Boonstra]

I use Monster Cable MCX-2S speaker cable. I have removed the brass plates from the binding posts of my Harbeth Super HL5, cut of a little piece of my speaker cables, fitted gold spades (Monster Cable Quick Lock) and connected these jumpers to the binding posts. The main speaker lead is fitted with banana-plugs (Monster Cable Quick Lock) and is connected to the lower of the two binding posts (as is recommended in the Harbeth manual).

The improvement in sound is obvious, although not earth-shaking. The gain is in the details, the quieter background and (at low listening levels) the richer sound . It is important to keep the "jumpers"as short as possible.

[danrubin]

As we know, Alan Shaw strongly disagrees with any claim that the brass jumpers can be improved upon.

[Thanos]

As we all know, the center of the problem is if we really get any improvement by experimenting wtith such short lengths and materials. I believe that there is a difference on bi-wiring vs mono-wiring. Why? Because ther must be different crossover behaviour & function. The jumpers must be of lesser significance to this...
I hope Alan will comment on this,by explaining the role of "this ot that way" or with "such or such" jumpers. Really, any audible change should be recognizable instead of imaginative.
Regards,
Thanos

[Ted Rook]

This is a reply to the earlier post from wlmdx about experimenting with various wires. You give the wire gauge numbers and I am wondering if there has been a mistake. Are you describing interconnect wiring (line level) or loudspeaker wiring (power level)? The gauges numbers you quote, 24 and 28 gauge are suitable for use at line level between equipment but not suitable as loudspeaker wire. You need minimum 14 gauge for speaker wire, preferably 12 or 10 gauge for speaker connections. The difference will be most apparent at low frequencies due to the high resistance of long pieces of thin wire the amplifier will no longer have normal control of the woofer that takes place with normal low resistance (thick gauge) speaker cables.

Ted Rook M30s USA

[J.A. Boonstra]

Really, any audible change should be recognizable instead of imaginative.

I don't believe in snake oil, dogmas and fundamentalism.
I don't use scientific measuring equipment.
I just experiment and follow my ears. Because my ears are my only measuring equipment. I decide that something works for me (or not) by listening and not based on theory, magazines, commercials or whatever.
I read hifi-magazines, because they keep me informed about the latest news in the business, but I never buy anything without hearing it first.

The difference between brass plates (or brass covered tin plates) and jumpers that are made of real loudspeaker cable, was demonstrated to me by a friend (on loudspeakers from a different brand).
So I went home and started my own little experiment.

1) First I listened to my SHL5's with the standard plates.
2) Then I replaced the plates with a set of (low cost) jumpers that I borrowed from a local HiFi-dealer. I heard almost no difference.
3) Then I replaced the plates with the jumpers, that I made from my own speaker cables. The difference was not enormous, but certainly worth the effort.
4) So after a few more tests, including blind tests (with help from my friend), I decided that the combination of a speaker cable and jumpers that are made from the same speaker cable gives the best result for me.

I hear an inprovement in the sound quality and I like it. I only posted it as information for other members. Maybe someone can use it, maybe someone thinks it is complete nonsens. I don't mind. Everybody is entitled to their own opinion. But don't lower yourself to the level of innuendo by writing that my conclusion may have been imaginative. It is NOT.

I quote the Harbeth manual on cables: "... so we'll leave that for you to explore ...".

On the subject of wiring methods, the Harbeth manual says that "We recommend the standard 'single-wiring' connection method as this is the simplest, safest and quickest method of connecting your amplifier ...".

So, although Harbeth prefers single-wiring, there is a bi-wiring terminal on the backside of the speakers. Why do you think that is? Because some people like bi-wiring or even bi-amping and others don't.
Harbeth provides speakers with terminals that allow different connection methods.
Harbeth may have a certain opinion on connection methods, but doesn't impose it upon the customers. Otherwise there would not have been a bi-wiring terminal.

You can experiment and decide for yourself, what configuration you like the best. This also implies, that other people can come to different conclusions. So be it. It's only human.

Let's use this Harbeth user Group to exchange information and experiences and let's not abuse it to judge each other.

[A.S.]

I think this amplifies my personal feelings of "live and let live" and I endorse the sentiment.

Where I start to have doubts is where the consumer is persuaded that in exchange for significant sums of money, huge sonic improvements can be achieved. But when one is playing for beer-money (as illustrated here) what have you to loose - and you may well gain.

As for biwire or not biwire terminals, my feeling is that that argument has probably run its course over the past nearly 20 years and arrived at exactly 50% for and 50% against the idea. Future Harbeths will (probably) revert to a single pair, reducing assembly time, cost and contact resistance.

[Bruce]

Future Harbeths will (probably) revert to a single pair, reducing assembly time, cost and contact resistance.

Alan, I know you will probably recommend against the consumer opening up his speakers but you were the one that brought up contact resistance. So when not bi-wiring, couldn't we eliminate the whole jumper issue by moving the internal crossover wires from the top terminals to the lower terminals and then use only the lower terminals without the jumpers?

[holden]

I think both speaker cable and interconnect cable definitely "alter" the sound of your system, but often not in a positive way. I've tried a number of different stuff and it is always better to buy the cable and interconnects from the same company. What is needed is something that doesn't exaggerate one aspect of the sound over another and basically lets the amp control the speakers.
There's nowt wrong with QED 79 strand. It sounds together.
I am using some nordost speaker cable, not so expensive - 11 quid a metre and that's the best i've found at an affordable price. Unfortunately it's not really advertised much and i can't remember the name, and everything else nordost is expensive. It's bi-wire cable and gives a balanced, detailed sound. Otherwise i'd run scared and revert to 79 strand (i kept 6 metres on standby) because a lot of the budget stuff just exaggerates one aspect of the sound and sacrifices other aspects. I guess if you go expensive an audition at home is in order, or you really do risk wasting your cash. A few crates of beer would be a more worthwhile investment unless you can take the cables home and try them first.
Happy listening.

[Naimeo]

I have also had good success with Kimber copper ICs and speaker cables between all components. Then I tried Audio Note Lexus ICs and speaker cables and got warmth + more detail and less "air". I bought them. Then I auditioned Audience AU 24 equipment. Out of this world, but I can't afford them. As good as the Lexus' are , the AU's are remarkable: just the right combination of warmth and detail.

If you try the AUs or even the Lexus', you may forget any plans you ever had to get silver cables.

Hello Frihed89, Just tried the Audio Note AN-L in my C&ES3 system with impreesive result. On reading your feedback on the Lexus, I'm tempted to get the Lexus instead. have you auditioned the AN-L against the Lexus? Lexus cost a lot more, but is the difference substantial?

[Hu]

Now I am using Lexus speaker cables and IC with M30, happy with them, but never tried LA against Lexus.

[Naimeo]

Now I am using Lexus speaker cables and IC with M30, happy with them, but never tried LA against Lexus.

Hello Hu,

Thanks for your response.

I wasn't expecting the obvious positive effect of the AN-L speaker cable in my system. I'm using quite generic OFC cables which sounded just fine before the AN-L brought in a wealth of inner details, slightly improved bass impact and depth - in a natural & coherent manner.

I'm curious what the higher end Lexus can do but the price for a 2.5m pair is US$590 here - drastically more than the AL-N

Are the Audio Note & Harbeth popularly matched with each other?

[Hu]

Hello Hu,


Are the Audio Note & Harbeth popularly matched with each other?

Hello Naimeo,

Sorry, I really do not know if the AN and Harbeth are popular match. Just make my system sounds more vivid, prettier treble and more musical than Analysis Oval 9 with my system. I have never tried AN-L.

Hu

[Hu]

I have also had good success with Kimber copper ICs and speaker cables between all components. Then I tried Audio Note Lexus ICs and speaker cables and got warmth + more detail and less "air". I bought them. Then I auditioned Audience AU 24 equipment. Out of this world, but I can't afford them. As good as the Lexus' are , the AU's are remarkable: just the right combination of warmth and detail.

If you try the AUs or even the Lexus', you may forget any plans you ever had to get silver cables.

John McDonald from Audience said that anyone who can not afford the Au24 should definately try the Audience Maestro or Conductor cables. They are balanced the same as Au24; just not quite as resolute. They are great.

Hu

[Naimeo]

Hello Naimeo,

Sorry, I really do not know if the AN and Harbeth are popular match. Just make my system sounds more vivid, prettier treble and more musical than Analysis Oval 9 with my system. I have never tried AN-L.

Hu

I've just bought a set of Lexus speaker cables. Neutal, natural & open sound. Looking for interconnect now and auitioning a set of Goertz Silver Micro Purl - tonally quite balanced but just a tad bright with great imaging, soundstaging and microdynamics.

[sunshine]

Hi,

Any Kondo silver speaker cable user here?
It seems like most Harbeth users are using copper speaker cable. Silver speaker cable users, care to contribute?

I'd listened to a setup, using full Kondo cables, smooth, sweet, not bright at all and emotions. But not using Harbeth speakers.

Later..

[Greg]

I settled on Cardas Twinlink speaker cable (with integral Cardas jumpers) and a Cardas Microtwin interconnect after I migrated from Naim to a Leben tubed integrated amplifier.

With Naim you inevitably use their cabling (though it isn't entirely necessary). So I had to start over with cabling. I demo'd a variety of relatively inexpensive cables before settling on Cardas. There's something to be said for the litz construction that Cardas uses, I must conclude.

Integral jumpers are where you solder / crimp the jumpers directly into the spade or banana plug at the speaker end of the speaker cable. It's an old Naim-advocated trick and is probably the best method for jumping bi-wire terminals.

Of the several speakers I've owned over the years, aftermarket jumpers or bi-wiring (internal or external) has ALWAYS been significantly better than the stock brass jumper plates to my ears -- regardless of whether bi-wiring is an improvement in itself with a given pair of speakers.