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Thread: ABX testing >>> values and satisfaction ...

  1. #1
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    Default ABX testing >>> values and satisfaction ...

    I found this interesting site here . It is going to disappoint some.

    ST

  2. #2
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    Default Re: ABX Test

    Quote Originally Posted by STHLS5 View Post
    I found this interesting site here . It is going to disappoint some.

    ST
    Interesting. But even if you accept the test result as completely valid, the two systems used the same pair of speakers - so the test says nothing about the importance of the speakers in the system.

    Also: what if the speakers, by their nature, simply weren't resolving enough to show the differences between the two systems? Maybe this test, run with a pair of Harbeths, would have had a different result - who knows. It seems to me quite possible that the speakers were the limiting factor.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: ABX Test

    Quote Originally Posted by EricW View Post
    I..............Also: what if the speakers, by their nature, simply weren't resolving enough to show the differences between the two systems? Maybe this test, run with a pair of Harbeths, would have had a different result - who knows. It seems to me quite possible that the speakers were the limiting factor.
    The original version of the website is in spanish. There they use many high end players and amplifiers against ordinary players like Sony . The point they want to make is a well designed players are all the same. They did not really do ABX on any loudspeakers. But we all know that the difference in different loudspeakers is pretty obvious and not imaginary.

    I posted the link in response to issues talked in the previous posts on which components drive the Harbeth the best.. At the moderate level I hear I find it hard to tell the difference between my Sony and Marantz or even Classe and Yamaha.

    ST

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    Default Re: ABX Test

    The results of this ABX test are neither surprising nor disappointing. They are in line with my experience using various electronics, but - of course - Harbeth speakers being the constant.

    Ned

  5. #5
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    Default Stay with your Harbeths ... it's all you need ...

    Quote Originally Posted by STHLS5 View Post
    The original version of the website is in spanish. There they use many high end players and amplifiers against ordinary players like Sony . ...
    Am I glad to read this...

    Anyone who could be able to pay a visit here, in my listening room, would have the opportunity to listen at two different cdp's playing exactly the same disc simultaneously. Simply by quickly changing CD1-CD2 source with the amp remote. We did it, with many friends, many times. The players are a Meridian 507 and a Yamaha CDR-HD1500. The first had a cost of 2,5 times the price of the second when bought...

    Most of the listeners got messed because they couldn't say which was which when I suddenly changed the sources. They all admitted that the sounds were too close to clearly discriminate... They sometimes spotted some kind of difference, but -hell- no way of a double+ price! So, I'll surely agree with Ned, it's the Harbeths that do the job. And they do it excellent with any source -even with a very low price- and some decent amplification.

    Hi-end mania won't have many chances of survival in this financially ill world. No future, sooner or later... Alan has written about it, in so many different ways, but always so very sensitive about peoples' limited budgets.

    Myths are for bed time, not for every day's & every man's living. Stay with your Harbeths. It's all you need...

    Cheers,
    Thanos

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    Default Bring back the Beetle in hi-fi!

    Couldn?t agree with you more Thanos. Think Speakers make the most perceivable sound difference and leave a bigger signature than say a cd player or an amplifier. If there are differences in the latter two, I?d rather attribute that to personal preference rather than get into an argument of which component is sonically superior. That would just seem pretty dogmatic and prescriptive. It also sets off a whole snowball and chain of events eg, creation of ?experts?, people who look like they know more about hifi than those who don?t and the hype surrounding it. Most humans are lucky enough to have a set of ears which work reasonably well and can discern what plainly sounds good and what doesn?t. All this with a bit of self education is all we need. Perhaps this is what the industry needs, classes to guide people to learn how to hear and listen. We learn to read, write and how to appreciate and critique literature in school, but no one teaches us how to listen.

    Over the holidays i sat down to some music in front of an extremely expensive hifi system, one which I would not shell out money for, simply because they do not sound better than my SHL5?s. The amp was a G#$%*&ND (swiss) with an A^%&*&%SE (Japanese) cd player to a pair of floorstanding speakers used at Abbey Road (I notice there is a heightened sensitivity to using manufacturer names these days on this forum so ill toe the line). It was simply not better than my humble set up. It didn?t rock my world, it didn?t bring tears to my eyes, so what gives?

    Bring back the Beetle in hifi. Long live Harbeth.
    Last edited by kittykat; 13-01-2010 at 01:41 AM. Reason: spelling grammar

  7. #7
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    Default PAN METRON ARISTON (Greek)

    I lost my best friend, John, 2 weeks ago. A brother for over 25 years. Cancer killed him. He knew the end is coming. He told me again what he always told to everybody: "I have all that I need. I need only all that I have".

    In my homeland, Greece, there's an ancient motto, one that epitomizes human behaviour and standing against the materials we consume. In ancient Greek is pronounced: PAN METRON ARISTON. Just 3 words... Trying to translate, PAN means "every", METRON means "measure" in the sense of keeping the measure between the far edges, in a humble way, ARISTON means "best".

    Yes, its culture that goes with music. Not spending money, more & more... That's also why I don't replace my sweet 10 year old Toyota. 'Cause I can fix the small repairs it needs to keep working fine. And I don't give a "s...t" about industry's needs to lower the life of vehicles while increasing the tech specs and comfort , also of so many other consumers' goods so to keep constructing and selling...

    In order to avoid speech making, I'll conclude: In Life, real needs are much less than wishes, the latter usually guided from artificial factors. Same happens with music, one way or another. Audio enthusiasts call it "Less is more". But do they mean the same about money spent on equipment? I doubt.

    Thanks so much for your excellent comment, and of course for supporting Harbeth, a company that represents a very very fine measure, in music, audio industry and ...our pockets as well!

    Cheers,
    Thanos

  8. #8
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    Default Harbeth ... worth every penny ...

    Thank you for your thoughts, Thanos. Two years ago I lost a very good friend, also to cancer. He was a music lover and 'audiophile', but in the best sense of the term. We often discussed the magazines' marketing of expensive high-end equipment, concluding always that one could be perfectly happy with very modest gear. My Harbeth speakers are the most expensive audio component I own, but have proven worth every penny of their purchase price. Certainly no more is needed, and, happily, no more is wanted.

    Ned

  9. #9
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    Default Re: ABX testing >>> values and satisfaction ...

    What is hi fi, and audio, and music, after all? It's an experience that we have, and that we value. That experience has certain objective correlatives in the outside world, but it's only what happens between your ears (or in your heart, if you want to be more poetic) that makes it meaningful. The magic is in the relationship between the two, but the end goal is always the meaningful, valuable, personal experience.

    What you want in a piece of audio equipment is something that will reliably get you there. It seems to me that the people who get overly fussed and antsy about high fi gear, who are constantly trading and upgrading and so on, are people who are either (1) valuing different things, like the status or prestige of having expensive or fashionable or the "right" equipment, over the value of the experience of music; or (2) simply don't trust their own sense of value and their own sense perceptions, and so depend too much on what others have to say, when the most important thing to do is just be open-minded and listen.

    I agree, there's something special about a Harbeth. I understand, in my scientifically semi-literate way, about the importance of Radial, and the cabinet construction, and fine-tuning, etc. But the important thing is that they're just so satisfying to listen to. Depending on the music, they can be relaxing when I want to relax, exciting when I want excitement, thought-provoking when I want to be thoughtful. The music speaks through them. What more could I possibly want from a loudspeaker?

  10. #10
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    Default Re: ABX testing >>> values and satisfaction ...

    Sorry to hear about your friend Thanos. Let?s hope 2010 brings some significant technological advancement which can stop this bodily malfunction. I often wonder how much it will take and whether quantitative easing and stimulus package type sums of money be sufficient to find a cure.

    In the meantime, ill be happy im alive and can listen to some music?and like you say EricW, we could all worry less about looking and searching constantly for a better sound, because there?ll be day we wish we had spend more time listening.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: ABX testing >>> values and satisfaction ...

    Thanos, my condolences as well. I've also lost a friend that way. The only general thing I could think to take from it is a reminder of how important and precious each day is for those of us lucky enough to be here. Our time and energy needs to be focused on what is truly important.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: ABX testing >>> values and satisfaction ...

    Quote Originally Posted by EricW View Post
    Thanos, my condolences as well. I've also lost a friend that way. The only general thing I could think to take from it is a reminder of how important and precious each day is for those of us lucky enough to be here. Our time and energy needs to be focused on what is truly important.
    Thank You all for your kind feelings, we seem all to have gone through the same painful experience, with more or less a close or well known person of us. May it would never happen again.

    Concerning our little community, I feel happy that we are all connected through our love for music in a very noble way that stands above & beyond differences in origin, language, religion, color or any other status, This is an excellent human touch that should teach those who produce war, poverty, misery and discrimination of how they could improve humanity instead of degrading life and values.

    And the funny thing is that we don't even know each other's face or we'll probably never meet. But I'm sure if we happen to meet by chance while travelling or visiting, we'd certainly share some coffee or a drink, chit-chating in friendship... Yes Eric, it should be the truly important what what should primarily matter in life. And it's so weird that international conferences take weeks and colossal amounts of money to reach ...a disagreement, while we take only some minutes to agree or positively disagree and truly respect & support each other's contribution and feelings.

    Thanks again
    Thanos

  13. #13
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    Default Re: ABX testing >>> values and satisfaction ...

    Dear Thanos,

    My apology for just catching up with your post. My prayers and heart-felt sympathy are with you.

    During the holidays this year my 39 year old nephew passed away after three weeks in the hospital due to complications following heart surgery. While I wasn't as close to my nephew as you were to your good friend, I'm extremely close to my brother and struggle daily to find ways to help him through this very difficult time. I find I'm left with prayer and tears.

    I rarely post on the Harbeth website since I'm a dealer for Harbeth and do not want my comments to be thought as self serving. However, I truly feel your pain and know how fragile life can be.

    My best to you.

    John

  14. #14
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    Default Re: ABX testing >>> values and satisfaction ...

    Quote Originally Posted by John Geisen View Post
    Dear Thanos,

    My apology for just catching up with your post. My prayers and heart-felt sympathy are with you.

    During the holidays this year my 39 year old nephew passed away after three weeks in the hospital due to complications following heart surgery. While I wasn't as close to my nephew as you were to your good friend, I'm extremely close to my brother and struggle daily to find ways to help him through this very difficult time. I find I'm left with prayer and tears.

    I rarely post on the Harbeth website since I'm a dealer for Harbeth and do not want my comments to be thought as self serving. However, I truly feel your pain and know how fragile life can be.

    My best to you.

    John
    You are a war veteran John. You've seen life & dignity destroyed,,, You daily collect the pain and the hard trial life gets you through, now inside your own family... Look at that chaos & the miserables in Haiti...

    The only thing that I'm sure about, is that, even through these catastrophies, people like you are needed more & more. You'll gain strength and an even deeper soul, even through these... That's why you're needed. Getting elevated so, your offer and stand in life will be more precious for everyone beloved. Keep going John, strong, sensitive and wise. Just keep going...

    It's a very happy thing for us that you're a Harbeth dealer and forum member, so we can have you in our tiny lovely family.

    My gratitude for your feelings,

    Thanos

    P.S. On the contrary, Your comments in our forum are truly valuable, not at all self serving. Please believe so... Harbeth dealers are mirror to Alan's philosophy about serving Music and People. What else?

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