M40 vs M40.1

[Gan CK]

The Magnat's and the Dahlquists are one in the same...John Dahlquist simply assembled them in New York and sold them under his name. Magnat is German and still in business, the 10p and DQM-9 are 3 way bookshelf speakers with a low frequency capability of 24 cycles.

I don't know that I would agree that the bass is overpowering, I just find that at the height I have mentioned the bass integrates better with the whole...when I use the stands alone I find the bass a bit more pronounced, but also not as tight. It's not that the bass is really that much more "there" though.

I'm going to try different locations for the M40's this weekend, and I'll also try having the speakers firing a little less "at me". I know with the B&W's that if I had the big 12" bass drivers toed in the low frequencies would be felt in the gut, so I'll try a bit less toe in.

Looks like I'll have a pair of Foundation stands to try out, I'll have to pay full price for them, but we have agreed that if I'm not satisfied I can return them.

Rick.

Interesting observation there. For me, i always prefer to toe in my Harbeths till you only see a little of the sides of either spks when seated in the hot spot. I feel that this degree of toeing in improves imaging & focus slightly. But i don't have M40. I am an SHL-5 user. Anyway, i feel that Harbeths are generally less fussy about positioning than many other speakers.

I 've seen the foundation stands before & feel that its a tad flimsy for the heavy M40. Its flimsy because one pillar at the bottom is missing. If you can custom make a pair similar to foundation but have that extra pillar at the bottom, it should be very good for the M40. But anyway, since the dealer allows you to return the stands should you not like them, then no harm trying. Btw, if i am not wrong, i think the 801 has 15" bass drivers rather than 12".

[kittykat]

For me, i always prefer to toe in my Harbeths till you only see a little of the sides of either spks when seated in the hot spot. "

Hi Gan CK. i tried this 1-2 months back when you suggested. it does indeed produce a more intense focus but found that the sweet spot was too tight. i have since put it back to a extremely mild toe in and find that i can sit anywhere, even laying on the floor in from if it without upsetting anything.

[timleety]

Hi Gan CK. i tried this 1-2 months back when you suggested. it does indeed produce a more intense focus but found that the sweet spot was too tight. i have since put it back to a extremely mild toe in and find that i can sit anywhere, even laying on the floor in from if it without upsetting anything.

Hey ther kittykat, like you I have them rather wide apart and very slightly toe-d in, and everyone was telling me to toe-in further. Tried it, didn't like it, like you mentioned, found the sweet spot too intense. Now they're back in the original position and the way I like it - huge soundstage both in depth and height, with that enveloping "wall of sound" effect a la Phil Spector.

[audio39]

i think the 801 has 15" bass drivers rather than 12".

Hi Gan CK...the N801 and beyond has a 15" low frequency driver, the Matrix series and 80 series had 12" low frequency drivers.

Ok, I've been fiddling with toe in...I've tried 2 alternate positions and then listened to each for 5 songs, I am finding the soundstage to widen, but I'm also noticing improvements in bass definition. I do wonder if the large bass driver just throws too much bass to be facing near directly at the listener - as I referenced earlier, I found this anomoly with the 801's.

This weekend I intend to continue adjusting toe in, but I'll also move the M40's closer to the rear wall...I adjust 1' initially, then perhaps 6" at a time.

It looks like the M40.1's may be in my home the weekend after next...it should be fun to hear the differences between the 2 versions.

Now, back to lugging these big fella's hear and there!

Rick.

[Gan CK]

Hi Gan CK...the N801 and beyond has a 15" low frequency driver, the Matrix series and 80 series had 12" low frequency drivers.

Ok, I've been fiddling with toe in...I've tried 2 alternate positions and then listened to each for 5 songs, I am finding the soundstage to widen, but I'm also noticing improvements in bass definition. I do wonder if the large bass driver just throws too much bass to be facing near directly at the listener - as I referenced earlier, I found this anomoly with the 801's.

This weekend I intend to continue adjusting toe in, but I'll also move the M40's closer to the rear wall...I adjust 1' initially, then perhaps 6" at a time.

It looks like the M40.1's may be in my home the weekend after next...it should be fun to hear the differences between the 2 versions.

Now, back to lugging these big fella's hear and there!

Rick.

Hi Rick, yes you are right. The 801 matrix series had 12" bass drivers. Age is definitely catching up with me. Anyway, have fun lugging those big fellas here & there. Exercise is good for ya.

[audio39]

Hi Rick, yes you are right. The 801 matrix series had 12" bass drivers. Age is definitely catching up with me. Anyway, have fun lugging those big fellas here & there. Exercise is good for ya.

Sounds like the age thing is against both of us...it seems only yesterday I would be looking forward to a couple of days of tweaking and adjusting, now it just seems like work. At least the prize is still the same.

Rick.

[Haddock]

As for stands, i have both the slylan and the steel open framed something solid for my M.40.1'.... both work well but both are lacking compared to my old wood stands made by spendor for the S-100.

I feel the skylan are not transmitting the energy from the top plate through the feet, due to their construction of hollow plastic. The top plate is to thin an light to absord and dissipate the vibrations.

The something solid are lively and provide a better path for energy to flow and dissipate. They lack a bit of density to the timbres and the speakers do not sound tonaly as saturated as they sould and could.

So i use my spendor stands again (heavy wood top plate with half a centimeter higher edges to allow the bottom of the speaker to vibrate freely, resting on two vertical wood plates, and a wood base plate similar to the top one) and it just sounds great.

I would love Harbeth to make their own matching stands, like spendor did.

As an aside, i have curtians behind the speakers as well, and they tend to deaden the sound, make it flat and lifeless. Everething's fine when the curtain are only used on a third or so of the speakers' back surface ... amazing difference really.

[audio39]

Hi Haddock...thanks for the feedback.

I too have curtains behind the M40's, they are 4' wide and I have them hung so that thay are angled to eliminate the 90 deg corner. I have found that "closing" the curtain so that I'm only eliminating the corner but exposing the back wall does make an audible difference, the sound being more open and a bit more exciting - but not as alluring!!

I've continued to adjust placement to alleviate what I considered to be boomy bass...I have found a position for the M40's that is as near to perfect as I think I'll find. The biggest change was less toe in, the speakers are now resting so that I can see ~3" of the back corner from my listening position. I currently have the speakers sitting 15" from the floor (on stands), between 13" and 15" there seems to be no discernable difference...so I'm having custom stands built that will place the speakers 14" off the floor.

The stands will be built from 1" MDF, they will be very "pedestal" in design where the center will be able to be filled with sand or kitty litter.

I'm very surprised at the imaging and staging abilities of these speakers...they are as near to disappearing as any speaker I have heard. The bass is now full and tight, any previously perceived boomy-ness has been alleviated. It's the midrange that is most startling...I continue to be awe struck at the realism...vocals are "you're there" real. In the current orientation I find the highs a bit rolled off, the speakers are angled up just ever so slightly, but my aging ears are appreciative of this sound...so I'm very happy.

The faceoff between my M40's and my friends M40.1's may never happen...after hearing my setup I find my friend not so enthusiastic to compare. I have listened to his M40.1's in his home, all fronted by Pass and Linn...perhaps it's the Luxman gear in my system, but I would easily give the edge to my system in overall musicality - and I think he would too!

Hopefully the stands will be fabricated soon, once I finish them in black piano laquer I will definitely post some pics...the Eucalyptus looks so awesome against black laquer.

I'll keep y'all in the loop!

Rick.

[Jmohd]

Hi Rick,

It's good to hear that you have the "near to perfect" position for the 40's.
Pls share with us some pictures of your current room and set-up.


Thanks

[audio39]

Hi Rick,

It's good to hear that you have the "near to perfect" position for the 40's.
Pls share with us some pictures of your current room and set-up.


Thanks

I will attempt to accomplish that this long weekend.

Rick.

[audio39]

Here are some pics of my M40's in Eucalyptus...they do look good!

The stands they presently sit on were originally made for my Dahlquist DQM-9's, they have never had the finish applied. On these stands the M40's sit 15" from the floor, the pair I'm having made will raise the speakers 14".

I added a pic of my beloved Luxman PD-300 table with Grace G704 arm...oh what a sweet combo.

If you note the current toe-in, I have the back of the speakers showing about 1.5"...I keep going back and forth between this location and 3" of the back of the speaker showing. In this current orientation I find that the image remains entirely between the speakers, but is rock solid...when I toe the speakers out more the image or stage widens beyond the outside of the speakers but is not as solid at locating instruments and singers.

I'm really enjoying these speakers...I look forward to the return of my Luxman M-05 amp, it will be a good match with these beautiful speakers.

Rick.

[Gan CK]

Hi Rick, thanks for sharing those pictures with us, you have a very nice listening room.

[kittykat]

Nice system Rick. im salivating over the lux amp. Is that your pet's picture on the wall btw? he has a higher position than the M40's. :-)

[audio39]

Nice system Rick. im salivating over the lux amp. Is that your pet's picture on the wall btw? he has a higher position than the M40's. :-)

After 22 years of no other breed we have moved on from Bull Terriers...the energy level was just too much with our busy lives. Those pics are not one of our Bully's, but my forever loved and forever missed Rocky looked exactly like the one on the right.

We now have a Bull Mastiff...alot of dog, but lazy and laid back.

[sunshine]

Hi Rick,

Nice room and i like the idea of your curtain, does it work?
The Turn Of A Friendly Card, great album.

Cheers

[audio39]

Hi Rick,

Nice room and i like the idea of your curtain, does it work?
The Turn Of A Friendly Card, great album.

Cheers

Hi sunshine,

The curtains work very well. The room was initially very bright with a complete absence of bass, after the installation of the curtains both problems were eliminated.

If you look closely you can see the curtains that are hung on the long walls just ahead of the speakers, there are also curtains hung at the opposite end of the room to eliminate the 90 deg corner, as well as a very heavy and long curtain over the single window in the room. Oh, and of course the curatin under the TV.

In a previous home I spent near to a small fortune on treatments, this time I went to Walmart and spent about one hundred dollars and accomplished the same thing.

Rick.

[hifi_dave]

Definitely the way to accomplish sound treatment - nice, heavy, interlined curtains. Improves the sound and keeps the peace with the lady of the house !!!

[Jmohd]

Hi Rick,

Your listening room is nice and big. Really match well with the M40. Have you thought of covering the TV? May be you can put a foam type diffusor or a simple heavy bath towel. IMO, this will minimise front sound reflections and you will experience better depth. I've tried it and it works.

[audio39]

So the tweaking has come to an end...the final position of the M40's is near identical to that in the photo's added earlier, now I'm just spending hours getting acquainted with the big guys.

Although listening to heavy rock is not very frequent anymore, I did pull out an album I purchased many years ago titled Monsters of Rock. It's live music recorded in Great Britain, I pulled it out to listen to 2 songs perfomed by the Scorpions (Loving You Sunday Morning & Another Piece of Meat) and as has become routine, the M40's provided a previously unequalled listening pleasure.

I was always aware that Rudolph Schenker was a great rhythm quitarist, but the M40's separated the instruments to an extent that I could follow every note played by Rudolph...amazing.

Of greatest importance to me is that I am genuinely disaapointed each time I have to walk away from my system - I'm listening to music more now than I have in the last ten years. I even sneak down after dinner most evenings to listen to at least one side of an LP.

The spikes and mounts are now fabricated for my new stands, I'm awaiting the delivery of the 1" MDF, and soon after I should have my new stands ready for painting. They will be adjustable in height from just under 14" to just over 15".

Rick.

[Gan CK]

Hi Rick, you are not only getting acquainted with the big guys but also getting acquainted with your music again. )