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INTRODUCTION - PLEASE READ FIRST TO UNDERSTAND THIS FORUM!

"This Harbeth User Group (HUG) is the Manufacturer's own managed forum dedicated to natural sound from microphone to ear, achievable by recognising and controlling the numerous confounding variables that exist along the audio chain. The Harbeth designer's objective is to make loudspeakers that contribute little of themselves to the music passing through them.

Identifying system components for their sonic neutrality should logically proceed from the interpretation and analysis of their technical, objective performance. Deviations from a flat frequency response at any point along the signal chain from microphone to ear is likely to give an audible sonic personality to the system at your ear; this includes the significant contribution of the listening room itself. To accurately reproduce the recorded sound as Harbeth speakers are designed to do, you would be best advised to select system components (sources, electronics, cables and so on) that do not color the sound before it reaches the speakers.

For example, the design of and interaction between the hifi amplifier and its speaker load can and will alter the sound balance of what you hear. This may or may not be what you wish to achieve, but any deviation from a flat response is a step away from a truly neutral system. HUG has extensively discussed amplifiers and the methods for seeking the most objectively neutral among a plethora of product choices.

HUG specialises in making complex technical matters simple to understand, getting at the repeatable facts in a post-truth environment where objectivity is increasingly ridiculed. With our heritage of natural sound and pragmatic design, HUG is not the best place to discuss non-Harbeth audio components selected, knowingly or not, to introduce a significantly personalised system sound. For that you should do your own research and above all, make the effort to visit an Authorised Dealer and listen to your music at your loudness on your loudspeakers through the various offerings there. There is really no on-line substitute for time invested in a dealer's showroom because 'tuning' your system to taste is such a highly personal matter. Our overall objective here is to empower readers to make the factually best procurement decisions in the interests of lifelike music at home.

Please consider carefully how much you should rely upon and be influenced by the subjective opinions of strangers. Their hearing acuity and taste will be different to yours, as will be their motives and budget, their listening distance, loudness and room treatment, not necessarily leading to appropriate equipment selection and listening satisfaction for you. Always keep in mind that without basic test equipment, subjective opinions will reign unchallenged. With test equipment, universal facts and truths are exposed.

If some of the science behind faithfully reproducing the sound intended by the composer, score, conductor and musicians over Harbeth speakers is your thing, this forum has been helping with that since 2006. If you just want to share your opinions and photos with others then the unrelated Harbeth Speakers Facebook page http://bit.ly/2FEgoAy may be for you. Either way, welcome to the world of Harbeth!"


Feb. 2018
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New here. New owner of 40.2 and but have old questions:)

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  • #16
    See here for a summary of proper cable tests: http://archimago.blogspot.nl/2015/06...mmary-non.html They do confirm Witwald's scepticism.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by willem View Post
      See here for a summary of proper cable tests: http://archimago.blogspot.nl/2015/06...mmary-non.html They do confirm Witwald's scepticism.
      Do I take it that for excellent quality and construction, and for a very sensible low price, one of the Studio quality Van Damme cables is the most that one really needs? A case of install and forget.

      Comment


      • #18
        The Van Damme Studio Grade Speaker Cables with the 2x2.5mm conductors do seem like a good quality and excellent value for money design. That's all most people will need if working with speaker cable lengths of only a few metres. For a 5 metre cable, the total resistance will be about 0.07 ohms, which is very low.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by witwald View Post
          The Van Damme Studio Grade Speaker Cables with the 2x2.5mm conductors do seem like a good quality and excellent value for money design. That's all most people will need if working with speaker cable lengths of only a few metres. For a 5 metre cable, the total resistance will be about 0.07 ohms, which is very low.
          Fancy cables inside Harbeth speakers

          That further validates the fact that we selected the Van Damme cable for use inside various Harbeths.

          Other factors that are really important to us here is that the cable is flexible so that it can be dressed around relatively tight corners inside the speaker cabinet (and well away from touching and buzzing against anything), has conductor areas that properly match the crimps and crimp tools we use generally and has a completely unambiguous colour coding of the conductors.

          In our corporate view, those are the three factors or relevance and importance. We have used many km of this cable now (xxxx check) and find it easy to work with.
          Alan A. Shaw
          Designer, owner
          Harbeth Audio UK

          Comment


          • #20
            Many thanks Witwald for the useful information on the Van Damme cable. I was thinking of purchasing their 'Hi-Fi' (I think it is only referred in this way as it is more domestically friendly for routing and dressing than the stiffer blue covered studio variety) 4mm UP-LCOFC version which is same price as the studio equivalent. Do I presume that this will be more than enough for any domestic situation?

            Alan, may I trouble you to confirm whether the Van Damme cable you use inside some Harbeth models is the 2.5mm size? If so, I will not need 4mm cable.

            Many thanks.

            Comment


            • #21
              Sure. In the std. speakers we use twin core 2 x 0.75mm and in the Anniversary models 2 x 1.5mm. Remembering that the lengths inside the speaker cabinet are short, and also that there is about 0.5R of resistance in the crossover coils feeding the woofer, and in addition the woofer has a DC resistance of about 5R, I'd have thought that for a typical domestic run from amp to speaker of, say, 4m you certainly could use their 2.5mm version.

              It's important not to get too precious about cable resistance. Certainly, hosepipe cables cannot be justified technically.
              Alan A. Shaw
              Designer, owner
              Harbeth Audio UK

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by A.S. View Post
                Sure. In the std. speakers we use twin core 2 x 0.75mm and in the Anniversary models 2 x 1.5mm. Remembering that the lengths inside the speaker cabinet are short, and also that there is about 0.5R of resistance in the crossover coils feeding the woofer, and in addition the woofer has a DC resistance of about 5R, I'd have thought that for a typical domestic run from amp to speaker of, say, 4m you certainly could use their 2.5mm version.

                It's important not to get too precious about cable resistance. Certainly, hosepipe cables cannot be justified technically.
                Alan, many thanks for the information, particularly what gauge cable is plenty sensible enough. A little late for me to be 'precious' anymore in these matters - a good dose of Hi-Fi Dave, the introduction to Harbeth speakers and members of the HUG, and your very much appreciated comments, observations and factual and objective references have well and truly seen to that!!

                Comment


                • #23
                  UPDATE

                  Hi,I have news...
                  I replaced my amp. Now I am using T+A PA3000 HV with my 40.2's.
                  Ayre was great. It was delivering the most transparent and neutral sound I have ever hear. But the sound was a little bit thin and the bass response was slightly weaker than harbeths potential.. But it was delicious.
                  Now... OMG... It's like Niagara Falls (if I want them to) and still transparent, deep, wide and clear. T+A and Harbeth, a winner combo...
                  I would like to share that.

                  and, I cannot agree with most of you about the cables. I can hear obvious differences when I change the cables. the measurements are not enough to tell everything. If they were we would need to throw most of the tube amps and turntables away first.

                  I tried a lot of cables. and difference is not in favor of the expensive ones always. I am using transparent reference as the speaker cables and signal project (greece) for the mains which are not cheap but I prefer to use relatively cheap hybrid signal cable (USA) for my phono interconnects and silver sonics for XLR connects. Every piece effects... for better or worse but effects for sure.

                  I love my Harbeths...

                  Have a good day.

                  Tugbay


                  Harbeth 40.2, T+A PA3000 HV, T+A DSD 8 DAC, VPI Classic II, Parasound JC3+, JMW-10.5i Unipivot Tonearm, Lyra Delos, Audiolab CD8200, Sansui TU9900, Transparent Ref Spkr Cables, DH Lab Revelation XLR interconnects, SignalCable Hybrid Phono cables, Signal Project, Furutech, Supra mains and accessories.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by tugbil View Post
                    and, I cannot agree with most of you about the cables. I can hear obvious differences when I change the cables. the measurements are not enough to tell everything. If they were we would need to throw most of the tube amps and turntables away first.

                    I tried a lot of cables. and difference is not in favor of the expensive ones always. I am using transparent reference as the speaker cables and signal project (greece) for the mains which are not cheap but I prefer to use relatively cheap hybrid signal cable (USA) for my phono interconnects and silver sonics for XLR connects. Every piece effects... for better or worse but effects for sure.
                    Hi Tugbay,

                    Believe me when I tell you that I come from 35 plus years on the 'audiophile' treadmill and I believed I could hear 'night and day' differences in a change of amplifier or cable and thought I had the same 'Golden Ears' of other like minded audiophiles. It took me until 3 or 4 years ago when I bought my Harbeth speakers to wake up to reality!

                    Like you, I still believe that there are indeed differences between some amplifiers (even solid state) and definitely believe there are with different brand speaker cable, but unlike you my belief is now based on these products being deliberately 'tuned' for a particular sound. One UK brand used to have a mid bass lift which no doubt added to its marketing hype of added 'slam' and pace. I recently changed from an expensive Tellurium speaker cable to an inexpensive Van Damme (as used by recording studios and musicians worldwide) because I suspected this tuning effect and immediately noticed a more neutral presentation with no added weight to make the bottom end sound impressive or exciting.

                    Best regards, Mike

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by A.S. View Post
                      Sure. In the std. speakers we use twin core 2 x 0.75mm and in the Anniversary models 2 x 1.5mm. Remembering that the lengths inside the speaker cabinet are short, and also that there is about 0.5R of resistance in the crossover coils feeding the woofer, and in addition the woofer has a DC resistance of about 5R, I'd have thought that for a typical domestic run from amp to speaker of, say, 4m you certainly could use their 2.5mm version.

                      It's important not to get too precious about cable resistance. Certainly, hosepipe cables cannot be justified technically.
                      Sorry to quote from such a long time back (AS post 11 of 22-06-2017).

                      What if the cable run is 10 metres?

                      From a technical viewpoint, would 4mm, or even 6mm, then be advisable? (Van Damme do both.)

                      Thanks.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        [QUOTE=MikeM;n78461]


                        Like you, I still believe that there are indeed differences between some amplifiers (even solid state) and definitely believe there are with different brand speaker cable, but unlike you my belief is now based on these products being deliberately 'tuned' for a particular sound.




                        Hi Mike.. I am total agree with you. Not only the cables or amps, loudspeakers have also a signature cause the reality can only be imitated by the instruments and devices. Including our lovely Harbeths none of the speakers is pure natural. They can produce only a version of the truth. At that moment, expectations and subjectivity begins to play... I like Harbeth sound. I also like Magico's and some of the Sonus Fabers and Revels... I really love Davore's Orangutans, Wilsons, Raidho's... They all natural but they are all different to each other too..

                        and Harbeths with VAC or Hegel, Yamaha, Vinnie's Lio's or with T+A all sound different under the Harbeths sound umbrella. But different.
                        And it is very normal to make a choice within those amps or cables. We chose Harbeth as our speakers... There are lots of speakers those have so called better measured performances at even better prices from various brands. But we chose Harbeths... The sentence on Harbeths website opening page tells everything: "The world most loved speakers."... Love! love is the best subjective situation...

                        I really appreciate your experience and time you spare to share... Thank you...

                        Best Regards,

                        t

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Hal-an-Tow View Post

                          Sorry to quote from such a long time back (AS post 11 of 22-06-2017).

                          What if the cable run is 10 metres?

                          From a technical viewpoint, would 4mm, or even 6mm, then be advisable? (Van Damme do both.)

                          Thanks.
                          I use the Van Damme 4mm UP-LCOFC cable and was advised by a highly regarded and experienced re-seller of their cable that this is more than enough and 6mm not required at all.

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