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Thank you Mr. Shaw

C

Crush

Guest
I thought I ought to share my first impressions of my 30.1 speakers as I just received a new pair to replace my NAIM SL2 loudspeakers.

First impression: the piano actually sounded like a piano and amazingly I cannot say that my former speakers even got this right, they were too busy getting the PRAT right....my wife didn't even ask me to turn the volume down.

I spent the inaugural evening listening and watching the most wonderful Blu-Ray (yes, non-audiophile, but I could care less) of Diana Krall in Rio, and man was it great. The best compliment I think I can say is that I just enjoyed every moment of the performance and didn't think of amps, speakers, source units and the minutia in between. The 30.1s just get the sound right.

Thank you Mr. Shaw for your wonderful products, truly one of a kind. Thanks to all the folks in the forum, this is very valuable resource.
 

Pluto

New member
First impression [of M30.1]: the piano actually sounded like a piano and amazingly I cannot say that my former speakers even got this right, they were too busy getting the PRAT right....
You have me intrigued. What is this PRAT thing? Why does it mean so much to some folks? Does PRAT have to come at the expense of other qualities? Do Harbeth speakers achieve PRAT?

{Moderator's comment: we recall that PRAT is Pace, Rythm and Timing. Not a birth control strategy, but something to do with the dynamic behaviour of loudspeakers, apparnetly.}
 

Pluto

New member
Design choices?

Design choices?

Moderator said:
...we recall that PRAT is Pace, Rhythm and Timing.... something to do with the dynamic behaviour of loudspeakers, apparently
So is the PRAT approach suggesting that a loudspeaker cannot exhibit correct behaviour in both the frequency and time domains simultaneously, and the designer must therefore decide along which of these mutually exclusive paths he wishes to tread?
 

EricW

Active member
PRAT and toe tapping

PRAT and toe tapping

So is the PRAT approach suggesting that a loudspeaker cannot exhibit correct behaviour in both the frequency and time domains simultaneously, and the designer must therefore decide along which of these mutually exclusive paths he wishes to tread?
Exactly. Reviewers refer to it as the "tap your toes" factor. If a speaker makes you tap your toes, it has PRAT. Some speakers have rhythm, some don't. That's the idea, anyway.

I once auditioned a component from a company famous for PRAT against a different component; I must say, the only thing that struck me about the supposedly PRAT-ful component is that it seemed to have some sort of aggressive midrange emphasis and I couldn't imagine listening to it long-term. Even the audition made me a bit tired.
 

Kumar Kane

New member
= responsive

= responsive

So is the PRAT approach suggesting that a loudspeaker cannot exhibit correct behaviour in both the frequency and time domains simultaneously, and the designer must therefore decide along which of these mutually exclusive paths he wishes to tread?
No, I think you are giving it too much credit. All the words in the acronym mean the same thing - responsive. The opposite would be flabby or woolly sound.
The curious thing is that PRAT is also used as an attribute of amplifiers and CD players.
 

Pluto

New member
Basic performance capability?

Basic performance capability?

Reviewers refer to it as the "tap your toes" factor
I'm afraid this leaves me troubled. The "tap your toes" factor lies in the music to which you listen, not the playback equipment. If a piece of kit in the playback chain is so bad at its job that it destroys the rhythmic integrity of the music, that is (obviously) disastrous. Such a piece of kit would quite probably be pretty poor in other aspects of its presentation too.

So are people really suggesting that there exists audio kit that is otherwise acceptable but nonetheless poor on the particular set of properties defined as PRAT, whatever that happens to mean?
 

EricW

Active member
Hifi magazine talk

Hifi magazine talk

So are people really suggesting that there exists audio kit that is otherwise acceptable but nonetheless poor on the particular set of properties defined as PRAT, whatever that happens to mean?
Yes indeed. If you head down to your local magazine shop and flip through the hi fi mags on the shelf, you may well come upon a review that says exactly that about some piece of kit. Or not - it doesn't happen all the time. I know I've read it more than once, though, and not just about speakers, but also CD players and amplifiers. Not cables, as far as I can recall, but it wouldn't surprise me.
 
C

Crush

Guest
NAIM electronics and speakers

NAIM electronics and speakers

Let me clarify. This whole the PRAT thing, I never understood it. Although perhaps I bought into it at the expense of musicality and tonal accuracy at some points.
I have embarrassingly owned way too many Naim pieces, including five sets of Naim speakers over the last fifteen years. The electronics are fine. The speakers in particular haven’t lived up to my expectations. I have always been left with the feeling they just didn’t sound right, so might as well upgrade….everything!

I think it comes from the Naim philosophy. My understanding of their approach is that to get you to the “live feeling” of the performance you need to upgrade to get better pace, rhythm and timing. For example, just look at their site on describing what a SuperCap adds to the system:
“The audible benefits from adding a SuperCap are fundamental to the music, improving timing, dynamic range, clarity and order. Particularly complex music becomes both easier to understand and listen to.”
I now think it comes down to simply loudness and perhaps lower noise floor, e.g. add an XPS to a CDX2 and see what it does, but nothing can help the speakers sound right as they ought to be.

The Harbeth 30.1 sing and sound great, I’m happy.
 

harbethpr

New member
Advertising methods

Advertising methods

The text you quote is an example of advertising puff. It's not intended to be taken literally, more of a tease, but the effect is to bypass reason and appeal to and motivate the reader on a lower mental level. It is a primitive and well used technique in the world of advertising to excite, inflame and arouse the (male) reader. This type of techno-talk has zero effect on female readers. It is not permitted in Harbeth.

Read about advertising tactics here fully. It explains the tricks of my trade.
 

A.S.

Administrator
Staff member
Hyperbole

Hyperbole

Well, I don't think you can lay any blame on the doorstep of a for-profit manufacturer for using any and every legal marketing tool. After all, the interpretation of hyperbole like the following (and we have a whole section on it here) is entirely in the mind of the reader:

I can honestly say that the Sonic Slippers have, without a shadow of doubt, transformed my listening experience. Those distant sounds that I thought were unwelcome background noises are now in sharp focus ... I hear them for what they really are, and were, disguised before the Sonic Slippers changed my listening life! Yes, now I can even hear the slop of soapy water as Mrs. Mop goes about her chores at the back of the studio. Verily, I tell you readers, the grime and fog has been lifted from before mine eyes. I can hear, see, smell and almost touch a beautiful sonic vista no, not just before me, to the side and behind me! I'm actually immersed in the radiant warmth of the music, for the very first time. The orange, enveloping glow of the performance is permeating my very pores. It's as if you're experiencing a lifetime of sun kissed beach holidays and *** all rolled up into one orgasmic explosion of unbelievable sound - yes, truly! I'm not exaggering! Trust me; I've not missed a single edition of HiFiShazam since 1968 and I know about these things. Before I donned the Sonic Slippers music was drab, drab, drab. I could hardly bring myself to listen to my $75,000 hifi rig. But now! I just can't wait to get home and slide my weary toes into the deep, sensuous velveteen warmth of the Sonic Slippeers. Choose from three shades. Purple, for the uplifting classy sound. Red, for more dynamics and plenty of PRAT, and soothing green for the last word in natural sound. Or buy all three and wear according to mood! Don't be shy. Even wear one of each colour for those days you can't decide between PRAT and laid back. Sensational! The whole experience is mind blowing! A natural high. Could one say 'spiritual'? Yes, I firmly believe one could. These Sonic Slippers have made a vast, simply staggering improvement in my sys ....
{Enough. Ed. No one will fall for that nonsense. But just in case you're temped, they're available from the Harbeth On-Line shop alongside the Prancing Pants. That's all you need to know. Where is that link to reams of that junk here?}
 
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